I have posted this on another forum but Im getting a little desperate now!
Hope someone has some experience with this.
Im search if anyone with knowledge of Truma UltraRapid Hot Water Systems. Ive had on going issues with mine since new and it now its out of warranty.
It works fine on AC. Often it will work fine on 12v but about 40% of the time it doesn't light on 12v/gas. I get initial sound of the system lighting then after 30 seconds lots of ticking as if trying to light again then the red led fault light comes on.
Ive had the van in the get checked but each time the system worked fine, one of the major issues with fault is the fact its so intermittent. I do find the it more regularly seems to work after we have driven, and tends to stop working after we have been parked up for a while . Although this is not completed consistent.
Ive had the gas pressure checked at the bottles and its all good, but I've heard it should be checked at the HWS though.
Ive tested the voltage at the HWS during the lighting process and it remains the same as the battery voltage (over 12v)
No experience with a Truma so just general troubleshooting.
I am assuming there is an electric element that operates in AC mode?
Obviously it works sometimes, and it sounds like the igniter is working. So Truma would say it's a gas pressure issue. The intermittent nature could be caused by temperature variation (tanks etc heating up in the sun for example).
But I don't like that it works most of the time, and there may be a movement factor. My wild-assed guess would lean toward an intermittent failure of the igniter (short?).
Have you called the Truma helpline? They look a helpful bunch from their website (maybe).
It does not matter that the warranty is now expired, it is a latent defect (possibly of installation mind) since new.
Ours is affected by just the slightest breeze to check if this affects yours tape a cardboard flap on side of prevailing breeze blocking any breeze from blowing out the pilot. After it has been going for about 5 - 10 minutes ours seems to rectify.
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Having worked for yrs in the automotive LPG industry, I'd say the problem is voltage drop at the LPG solenoid. It requires better than 12.6v at the solenoid to actually pull the plunger up against the spring and this voltage must be maintained to hold it there. Nothing like a normal solenoid operation where the big current is required to pull it open and it will stay open even if the voltage drops quite a bit. Because the battery supply goes to the control unit and then out to the solenoid, the voltage drop is probably excessive and this is the cause of your frustrating problem.
Heavier gauge wire from the battery to the hot water stem might help, a relay switched by the control unit but delivers the battery input direct to the solenoid will also help .... but the part you probably don't want to hear, the higher voltage from a lithium battery will be the ultimate fix. Because the lithium voltage holds above 13v for the majority of the discharge level and would only drop to 12v when completely discharged, the higher voltage will solve the problem.
T1 Terry
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Ill look more into this, im currently running at low volts due to camping in Townsville, very warm and the fridge is using power 24hr a day and we are relying on solar. I never thought to test it on different voltages. I have checked the voltage at the heater and it is pretty much the same as the battery voltage so major losses.
Thank you
-- Edited by blahblah on Saturday 7th of December 2019 09:09:50 PM
No experience with a Truma so just general troubleshooting.
I am assuming there is an electric element that operates in AC mode? Obviously it works sometimes, and it sounds like the igniter is working. So Truma would say it's a gas pressure issue. The intermittent nature could be caused by temperature variation (tanks etc heating up in the sun for example).
But I don't like that it works most of the time, and there may be a movement factor. My wild-assed guess would lean toward an intermittent failure of the igniter (short?).
Have you called the Truma helpline? They look a helpful bunch from their website (maybe).
It does not matter that the warranty is now expired, it is a latent defect (possibly of installation mind) since new.
I have called the helpline and they are often very helpful. All their suggestions have been looked into.
Having worked for yrs in the automotive LPG industry, I'd say the problem is voltage drop at the LPG solenoid. It requires better than 12.6v at the solenoid to actually pull the plunger up against the spring and this voltage must be maintained to hold it there. Nothing like a normal solenoid operation where the big current is required to pull it open and it will stay open even if the voltage drops quite a bit. Because the battery supply goes to the control unit and then out to the solenoid, the voltage drop is probably excessive and this is the cause of your frustrating problem. Heavier gauge wire from the battery to the hot water stem might help, a relay switched by the control unit but delivers the battery input direct to the solenoid will also help .... but the part you probably don't want to hear, the higher voltage from a lithium battery will be the ultimate fix. Because the lithium voltage holds above 13v for the majority of the discharge level and would only drop to 12v when completely discharged, the higher voltage will solve the problem.
T1 Terry
I tried to fire up the HWS system today with 13.2v but didn't work.
Check the voltage across the solenoid wires by cutting nick in the insulation or threading a sewing needle through the cable. The voltage needs to be better than 12.5v to pull the solenoid open and remain above 12.3v to hold it open.
This was a common problem with LPG fuel cars and an issue with dual fuel cars when the cut off solenoid was added at the gas tank. With the dual fuel models, starting on petrol got the system voltage up, then the tank solenoid would open, but on straight LPG conversions this option wasn't available and mid winter was the most common time for the problem to appear. Generally the result of poor wiring and generally required a heavy cable run from the battery back and a relay added close to the solenoid.
T1 Terry
__________________
You can lead a head to knowledge but you can't make it think. One day I'll know it all, but till then, I'll keep learning.
Any links to any sites or products is not an endorsement by me or do I gain any financial reward for such links
I had a problem whereby on my new van the gas HWS would not light or would light up momentarily and then go out with the clicking sound. The gas bottles were full and all the gas lines were in good order with an approved gas compliance. What I did after being subject to technicians that could not think past there own importance was to remove the gas isolator valve from the gas bottle and connect the gas supply flexible hose directly to the gas bottle in the same manner as it was connected in my old van before we had to have these new rules that are supposed to help us be protected from ourselves.
Guess what, the heater fired up and worked fine. So then I found that one gas isolator valve was still working and one was not. After about three or four days of using that isolator the HWS stopped working again. I then removed the second isolator and everything worked fine. I complained to the selling dealer and was told that the gas I had in the bottles must have contained a contaminant. they suggested water. Well the gas I had in the bottles was the gas that came in them when the van was new.
I then discharged one bottle completely and went and refilled it at the local servo centre. Guess what, the same thing happened when the heater would not work and then I tried the fridge and it would not work on gas either with the isolator valve fitted. Not to be restricted to the HWS and the Fridge I then tried the Weber through the same bottle and isolator valve and it didnt work either. I removed the isolator and reconnected the hose as above and all the gas appliances worked fine. The dealer still insists that the gas was or is the problem. Go figure that gem of thought. They wont replace the gas isolator valves.
I now operate mine without the isolator valves and have no more problem.
I am sitting here imagining the bashing I will get by those who think I need isolators but none of my previous vans have had these valves fitted.
Try removing the isolator if fitted and see how you go. I hope you have better luck with your dealer if your van is new. If you feel you need isolators and you have proven that they are the problem then seek compensation and new valves from a supplier.
Good luck with finding the problem,
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Tuesday 10th of December 2019 08:21:37 PM
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Tuesday 10th of December 2019 08:26:49 PM
I had a similar experience with a different gas heater.. Could hear the gas ignite but would not hold.. Problem: ants nest limiting air for continuous flame.. Cleaned out and worked OK.
I have posted this on another forum but Im getting a little desperate now!
Hope someone has some experience with this.
Im search if anyone with knowledge of Truma UltraRapid Hot Water Systems. Ive had on going issues with mine since new and it now its out of warranty.
It works fine on AC. Often it will work fine on 12v but about 40% of the time it doesn't light on 12v/gas. I get initial sound of the system lighting then after 30 seconds lots of ticking as if trying to light again then the red led fault light comes on.
Ive had the van in the get checked but each time the system worked fine, one of the major issues with fault is the fact its so intermittent. I do find the it more regularly seems to work after we have driven, and tends to stop working after we have been parked up for a while . Although this is not completed consistent.
Ive had the gas pressure checked at the bottles and its all good, but I've heard it should be checked at the HWS though.
Ive tested the voltage at the HWS during the lighting process and it remains the same as the battery voltage (over 12v)
The vent cap is off
The wind isn't an issue
There is water in the tank
Sorry for this stupid question, but...
Are you pressing the top of the spring loaded isolating valve, in your picture, before you use any gas appliances?
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Just having same issue with mine - doesn't start on gas. Think it may start sometimes for a little bit then stop with red light coming on. Getting starter clicking happening fine & can smell some gas near vent externally. Wondering if it's not getting adequate gas pressure. Did check using my 2nd gas bottle as well as first one. Did light stove and all good. Some questions if you know:
Q1 - Manual says "To unlock (and purge air), switch off the appliance, wait 5 minutes, and switch on again." - not sure what they mean here? Just leave it off and the gas should dissipate?
Q2 - Re gas flow only way to check this is to get a gas guy in right? Nothing I can really do to check myself?
Q3 - Re possibility of ants or something, how do you manage to clean this out? Would this be visible looking in internally through the cowl with a torch? When I look through everthing I see seems clean/silvers.
update - actually have been trying on/off for the last hour - it seems to be working now - so almost as if it need the gas to flow for a bit a flushing out some small particles or something in the line?
We find ours hard to light if it's been left for a while. We light ours at least once a month if not traveling
Always find it lights easier on the hotter setting
I had a problem whereby on my new van the gas HWS would not light or would light up momentarily and then go out with the clicking sound. The gas bottles were full and all the gas lines were in good order with an approved gas compliance. What I did after being subject to technicians that could not think past there own importance was to remove the gas isolator valve from the gas bottle and connect the gas supply flexible hose directly to the gas bottle in the same manner as it was connected in my old van before we had to have these new rules that are supposed to help us be protected from ourselves.
Guess what, the heater fired up and worked fine. So then I found that one gas isolator valve was still working and one was not. After about three or four days of using that isolator the HWS stopped working again. I then removed the second isolator and everything worked fine. I complained to the selling dealer and was told that the gas I had in the bottles must have contained a contaminant. they suggested water. Well the gas I had in the bottles was the gas that came in them when the van was new.
I then discharged one bottle completely and went and refilled it at the local servo centre. Guess what, the same thing happened when the heater would not work and then I tried the fridge and it would not work on gas either with the isolator valve fitted. Not to be restricted to the HWS and the Fridge I then tried the Weber through the same bottle and isolator valve and it didnt work either. I removed the isolator and reconnected the hose as above and all the gas appliances worked fine. The dealer still insists that the gas was or is the problem. Go figure that gem of thought. They wont replace the gas isolator valves.
I now operate mine without the isolator valves and have no more problem.
I am sitting here imagining the bashing I will get by those who think I need isolators but none of my previous vans have had these valves fitted.
Try removing the isolator if fitted and see how you go. I hope you have better luck with your dealer if your van is new. If you feel you need isolators and you have proven that they are the problem then seek compensation and new valves from a supplier.
Good luck with finding the problem,
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Tuesday 10th of December 2019 08:21:37 PM
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Tuesday 10th of December 2019 08:26:49 PM
@oldbloke - thanks for the info/reply - I got it going, but I'll start it up again this weekend to double check it is still good and it was just that initial start for several months...
@oldbloke - thanks for the info/reply - I got it going, but I'll start it up again this weekend to double check it is still good and it was just that initial start for several months...
Sooo, was it the regulator?
Whatever happens, you won't be certain until a bit of use since it seems to be intermittent
Whatever happens, you won't be certain until a bit of use since it seems to be intermittent
Hi oldbloke - thanks for the tip - tried again this morning and I did get same issue. Opened the black cap and turned knob 1/4 turn clockwise...assuming this increases flow? Anyway it worked after that and heated up fully without cutting off :)
I'll turn off and try again tomorrow to make sure.
Whatever happens, you won't be certain until a bit of use since it seems to be intermittent
Hi oldbloke - thanks for the tip - tried again this morning and I did get same issue. Opened the black cap and turned knob 1/4 turn clockwise...assuming this increases flow? Anyway it worked after that and heated up fully without cutting off :)
I'll turn off and try again tomorrow to make sure.
240V heating doesn't seem to be working now on our unit - anything I can check/do re troubleshooting?
(BTW - since we started our latest trip the gas heating is working fine each time first go. Almost like it just need to be run a couple of times to clear the lines out)
