Hole in exhaust

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

Hole in exhaust

Whenarewethere · Guru

A very long time ago in a Peugeot 504 I had a hole in the exhaust, it made no difference other than more noise. I replaced it with stainless steel & didn't have any issues for another decade when I replaced the car.

msg · Guru

Wondering about fumes entering the vehicle ?

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

I have not smelt any fumes within the cabin at all. I'm wondering if the vehicle is more sluggish than normal due to this hole. I will repair it anyway but curious as to how much this hole could effect the engine?

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Carbon monoxide, which is highly poisonous, has no smell.
Loss of engine power is the least of your problems.
GET IT FIXED, PROPERLY, NOW.
Cheers,
Peter

Jaahn · Guru

Hi smile

Your Civilian ED33 has no turbo so, no the hole in the exhaust will not make any difference to the performance. There is no connection between the exhaust and the engine pump governor. biggrin

If it is down on power I would do a check on the usual things that cause problems on older diesels; firstly check the air filter (and air intake) for blockage, and the fuel filter is blocked. Change both of them is a good idea. Usual check on tappet clearances. Then check for a blocked exhaust, possible engine mechanical problem. Compression check for that. Then all the ordinary things like leaking gaskets etc. hmm Also worth checking the throttle linkage is giving full travel at the engine on an old vehicle.

Good luck. Jaahn

PS and fix that exhaust leak for your own good and to avoid a booking disbelief

-- Edited by Jaahn on Friday 3rd of July 2020 05:09:38 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

It is a plane but the end result is the same!

'The pilot of a seaplane that crashed in the Hawkesbury River in 2017 was likely "adversely affected" by engine fumes in the cabin, the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) says.'

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-03/atsb-report-on-sydney-seaplane-fatal-crash-in-hawkesbury-river/12419706

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

Ok. So the hole is not the culprit of very slow bus. I know it's only a ED33 but something seems additional wrong. I'm planning on adding a turbo, exhaust and intercooler in the next 3-6 months so that should help with power by 30-40% . Will patch the exhaust in the mean time to eliminate exhaust fumes being dangerous.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Leaks can cause turbulence big time. Also just check the exhaust is not restricted in some way ? On a petrol EFI engine It can as it affects 02 sensor. Read high oxygen and try to increase extra fuel . A temp fix with high temp silicon and stainless cable ties etc gets you out of trouble . Silicon on its own wont work . But will seal good enough ., Yes be aware of exhaust gas.

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

So I got around to taking my front pipe off my exhaust today and found that for a start there was no gasket. Then the top piece of the pipe looks like it was tacked on but all welds had broke meaning the whole top piece was just moving around. There was no air tight seal AT ALL. this would HAVE TO cause some power issues right?

Cheers

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

See pics

oldbloke · Guru

tuggersbmx wrote:
So I got around to taking my front pipe off my exhaust today and found that for a start there was no gasket. Then the top piece of the pipe looks like it was tacked on but all welds had broke meaning the whole top piece was just moving around. There was no air tight seal AT ALL. this would HAVE TO cause some power issues right?

Cheers

Yes. Engines generally require the right back pressure. But each is different.

KJB · Guru

More noise and exhaust gases up front but can just about guarantee no power loss....

blaze · Guru

tuggersbmx wrote:
So I got around to taking my front pipe off my exhaust today and found that for a start there was no gasket. Then the top piece of the pipe looks like it was tacked on but all welds had broke meaning the whole top piece was just moving around. There was no air tight seal AT ALL. this would HAVE TO cause some power issues right?

Cheers

I do not reckpn it will make a bit of diference, if its blocked it will

cheers

blaze

Jaahn · Guru

Hi MIck smile

Sorry but it will make no difference. They might run better with no exhaust actually but do not do that. aww

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 5th of July 2020 05:52:02 PM

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

Dammm.. everyone has different inputs. Yes....it could cause major air flow / back pressure / 02 sensor issues. No..... It wont make a difference? I know it will make a difference noise wise in the cabin and stop bad fumes in the cabin too so il repair anyways but it has to cause some negative influence on the engine right?

blaze · Guru

dont reckon it will have sensors (to earlier modei) full flow is good, air, easy in, exhsust easy out. Yes fix it for noise and fumes
cheers
blaze

-- Edited by blaze on Sunday 5th of July 2020 07:43:17 PM

Jaahn · Guru

tuggersbmx wrote:
Dammm.. everyone has different inputs. Yes....it could cause major air flow / back pressure / 02 sensor issues. No..... It wont make a difference? I know it will make a difference noise wise in the cabin and stop bad fumes in the cabin too so il repair anyways but it has to cause some negative influence on the engine right?

Hi Mick smile

There is only a point of differences from people who do not know how the old diesels work. I am tempted to say people who are ignorant on engines that have commented so far. I am a ex-mechanic and worked on diesel plant as well for a living and in a couple of countries and did some teaching also.

There are no O2 sensors on these diesel engines. Back pressure is always bad for power, despite the ignorant people who say otherwise. Taking the exhaust straight up into the air works well if noise is not a problem furious aeroplanes do it all the time. There are no problems caused by a hole or leak in a non turbo exhaust. I cannot think of a negative influence on the engine at all. More likely to melt the wiring or paint or cause a fire. I challenge anyone to provide any evidence that these statements are not correct. disbelief

Jaahn

PS I fixed a mystery loss of power in PNG on a newish Nissan Cabstar ED33 motor by giving it a good checkover as per my check list above. Pulling out the air filter I discovered there was a length of bunting had been sucked down the snorkel tube and partially blocked the air intake. Combined with the high altitude in the mountains it was a slug. But removal of the blockage was a real noticeable improvement back to full power. Check the simple things first !!

-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 5th of July 2020 08:31:18 PM

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

I'm glad for some realistic responses. By now means am I a guy who knows nothing about vehicles and how engines work. The exhaust holes / no gasket would definitely be the issue of a loud cabin / bad and dangerous fumes. Will fix anyway regardless. I'm looking at building this motorhome solid and reasonably powerful for my family for the next 10 years. So I'm looking at engine swap or adding a turbo ECT. But I need to get it on the road and running for spring. Then I can figure out a long term plan.

msg · Guru

Looks like the Big Green Shed is getting low on stock. They may have to approach Aussie manufacturers.

Went there today, looking a carbon monitor or whatever I need to sense exhaust/Gas emissions. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Attendant wanted me to by a smoke alarm. hmmmm give that a miss, maybe next time they'll have one.

I also needed some plastic covered wire for a clothesline. The stuff they had in the clothesline area was too thin. Sent to another section up the other end of the store. Nup. Go back to the closeline section. Who then sent me out side to the landscaping section. Oh yes we have it!!!! I'm getting excited.. The 6 or so boxes of various sizes are all empty. oh well maybe next time..... At least the staff tried (thank you)

-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 7th of July 2020 04:35:39 PM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Fit the CORRECT donut on flange .Tighten up
. Yes turbulence causes back pressure big time . Just because it leaks doesnt mean its flowing well ! It breaks the boundary layer . Yes I make turbo manifolds for over 30 years . Leaking exhaust near motor is bad news !! youtu.be/meMQnOVTPqU

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

Would this only be beneficial to a turbo engine? I don't think my exhaust even had this donut gasket haha

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Post some pics .

tuggersbmx · Senior Member

I can't really post pics now as I've just put it all back together yesterday. Definably much better sound wise but haven't got a chance to take it for a drive yet.

dorian · Guru

Jaahn wrote:
Taking the exhaust straight up into the air works well if noise is not a problem aeroplanes do it all the time. There are no problems caused by a hole or leak in a non turbo exhaust. I cannot think of a negative influence on the engine at all.

Doesn't a "tuned" exhaust improve scavenging?

Why do dragsters (where noise is not a problem) still have exhaust pipes?

Jaahn · Guru

dorian wrote:
Jaahn wrote:
Taking the exhaust straight up into the air works well if noise is not a problem aeroplanes do it all the time. There are no problems caused by a hole or leak in a non turbo exhaust. I cannot think of a negative influence on the engine at all.
Doesn't a "tuned" exhaust improve scavenging?
Why do dragsters (where noise is not a problem) still have exhaust pipes?

Dorian smile

Answer is yes and yes aww but I guess you want more ?? The exhaust flow out of the engine is not steady but a large burst from the port that trails off. This can be made to assist the flow of the system by some 'tuning' of the pipe lengths between the cylinders. All racing cars have an elegant system that enhances the power at the desired rev range. This is a study that requires more than a sentence on a Caravan forum. But we are not talking about that here, just a cracked collector pipe.

The second question about dragsters is governed IMHO by the need to 1 look good, 2 get the vast quantity of very hot exhaust gas out of the ports and up into the air without cooking the track or the driver and machinery. (Did you know a top fueler might only do 300-500 revs in total for the race). Just an interesting fact.

Jaahn