OK I will qualify my comments by saying that there are many many hard working and smart public servants. But there is a small minority of public servants who are giving all the others a bad name/image.
Just read any news outlet today and see the stories about border restrictions and how the public servants have addressed them. First there is the farmer in Vic who wanted to feed his sheep just over the NSW border. Phone call and a discussion with a public servant and he was advised the only way to feed his sheep was to truck the hay to Melbourne. Fly it to Sydney. Put it in quarantine for 14 days and truck it back to his farm. Does hay carry the virus? $50000.00. And the contract harvester who needed to get from Victoria to NSW with his equipment. Public servant told him to drive it to Melbourne. Fly it up to Sydney and drive it to his farm. Huh??? Do these folks even know what a harvester is let alone how big it is? I could go on but there are many examples in the news.
It would be funny if it wasn't so serious. But wait there's more. The mother who was given permission to travel form country NSW to see he very sick son in a Brisbane hospital. She was told she would have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days and return straight back home. No seeing her son!! Or the family with 3 children in Vic. One can cross the border because she is doing year 11. The rest cant because they may be a covid-19 risk. Huh? They are the same family. And what about South Australia banning anyone from Victoria regardless of how sick they are from getting their treatment in SA, as well as interstate students. But allowing hundreds of students in from Singapore.
I get it. Public servants are not allowed to think. They just follow orders. Orders given by dumb arsed politicians who only care about polls. Am I cranky? You bet. This country is being run by idiots with zero common sense. Protect the population. I have no issues with that. But find solutions instead of sticking their collective empty heads in the sand.
By the way. Notice how those who are making and enforcing the rules have secure jobs and just given themselves a pay rise.
One more thing. The Qld premier stated the Qld hospitals are for Qld residents. Well if you come from Qld and ever get a chance to go interstate don't expect any medical care while out of Qld. How dumb are all these folks.
Yeah before you fire back just remember who you voted for last election.
A many years ago, I had to attend a centrelink office, a young lady on reception asked the nature of my visit explaining it all to her, she wandered off and spoke to another team member, on her return her response was not a satisfactory reply, I then asked to speak to her supervisor which brought a raft of excuses and negative replies about speaking to her supervisor. I decided to take a different tack in an attempt to resolve my enquirie, asking to make an appointment to speak to the center manager, I got the third degree why do want to speak to the manager. I totally lost my patience with her attitude so I politely asked if she had a university degree, her response was yes, I then remarked "what in stupidity " she left the reception area crying. Next thing a very indignant center manager tried to come the bounce we me about my treatment of her team member, my response to her was it had the desired effect I'm now talking to you, sitting down explaining the sequence of events and purpose of my visit with the manager, saw a positive outcome in regards to my enquirie.
OK I will qualify my comments by saying that there are many many hard working and smart public servants. But there is a small minority of public servants who are giving all the others a bad name/image.
Just read any news outlet today and see the stories about border restrictions and how the public servants have addressed them. First there is the farmer in Vic who wanted to feed his sheep just over the NSW border. Phone call and a discussion with a public servant and he was advised the only way to feed his sheep was to truck the hay to Melbourne. Fly it to Sydney. Put it in quarantine for 14 days and truck it back to his farm. Does hay carry the virus? $50000.00. And the contract harvester who needed to get from Victoria to NSW with his equipment. Public servant told him to drive it to Melbourne. Fly it up to Sydney and drive it to his farm. Huh??? Do these folks even know what a harvester is let alone how big it is? I could go on but there are many examples in the news.
It would be funny if it wasn't so serious. But wait there's more. The mother who was given permission to travel form country NSW to see he very sick son in a Brisbane hospital. She was told she would have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days and return straight back home. No seeing her son!! Or the family with 3 children in Vic. One can cross the border because she is doing year 11. The rest cant because they may be a covid-19 risk. Huh? They are the same family. And what about South Australia banning anyone from Victoria regardless of how sick they are from getting their treatment in SA, as well as interstate students. But allowing hundreds of students in from Singapore.
I get it. Public servants are not allowed to think. They just follow orders. Orders given by dumb arsed politicians who only care about polls. Am I cranky? You bet. This country is being run by idiots with zero common sense. Protect the population. I have no issues with that. But find solutions instead of sticking their collective empty heads in the sand.
By the way. Notice how those who are making and enforcing the rules have secure jobs and just given themselves a pay rise.
One more thing. The Qld premier stated the Qld hospitals are for Qld residents. Well if you come from Qld and ever get a chance to go interstate don't expect any medical care while out of Qld. How dumb are all these folks.
Yeah before you fire back just remember who you voted for last election.
Ahhh humbug.
not so dumb. each state pays for their hospitals. Qld hospitals for qld. residents Well where do u draw the line? I recall a new zealander coming to qld years ago for heart surgery. How many from northern nsw use qld hospitals? The cost would be huge. Perhaps, if a resident from another state gets sick in another state then there state reimburses the state they r in. I have no answer but this virus sure has opened up a division n can of worms. One rule for everyone n that goes for mask wearing, borders, whatever. At present, we will never get this virus under control while the rules do not apply to everyone.
The Rocket where do you think money for hospitals comes from? Guess. Federal government that's where. So a hospital in Qld belongs to everyone. Just like education. The vast bulk of the money comes from the federal government.
With an 'ours' mentality I would hate to think what would happen if you had an accident or got sick while interstate.
I don't really care what the rules are as such. But make them workable and based on common sense.
I heard this this morning. Put your Harvester on a plane. Bees. Bales of hay. Sheep, all by air for 50 km across a remote border. Others were told to take their harvester through a standard policed access point.... Harvester won't fit!
You couldn't write this stuff even for Yes Minister!
& the Mayor of Mildura was at an utter loss. He was questioned about the current Mildura Covid case.
The region is shut down even though the actual person is in Melbourne but because he has an address in Mildura which is a Post Box the region is a Covid area!
So if you want to shut down all of Australia all you need to do is stay at home with Covid & get a Post Box in a remote country town on the other side of the country!
Yes Prime Minister!
__________________
Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!
50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.
Mind you, as an ex Public Servant (1st 25 years as a Technical Studies - read Wood Work, Metal Work, Plastics, Fine Arts - Teacher where I was in effect the servant of the student to ensure that the students actually understood and succeeded in their studies and development).
The last 22 years of work as a Building Designer/Technician/Trials Logistics Officer in the Dept. of Defence in Woomera, then Edinburgh DSTO. All of this time we were expected to SERVE the public, the customer, the client our colleagues etc.
In retirement I have found exactly the opposite from all of the Govt Depts. I have to deal with.
Thankfully I well remember all of the personal skills training and how to counter the difficult client / customer and thoroughly enjoy employing it all back at the difficult officers now being dealt with and they DO NOT LIKE IT AT ALL.
I have fun!
Cheers - Ian
__________________
Cheers - Ian
I slowly realise as I get older that I am definitely NOT the fastest rat in the race.
Also the older I get the more I realise I do not know.
OK I will qualify my comments by saying that there are many many hard working and smart public servants. But there is a small minority of public servants who are giving all the others a bad name/image.
Just read any news outlet today and see the stories about border restrictions and how the public servants have addressed them. First there is the farmer in Vic who wanted to feed his sheep just over the NSW border. Phone call and a discussion with a public servant and he was advised the only way to feed his sheep was to truck the hay to Melbourne. Fly it to Sydney. Put it in quarantine for 14 days and truck it back to his farm. Does hay carry the virus? $50000.00. And the contract harvester who needed to get from Victoria to NSW with his equipment. Public servant told him to drive it to Melbourne. Fly it up to Sydney and drive it to his farm. Huh??? Do these folks even know what a harvester is let alone how big it is? I could go on but there are many examples in the news.
It would be funny if it wasn't so serious. But wait there's more. The mother who was given permission to travel form country NSW to see he very sick son in a Brisbane hospital. She was told she would have to quarantine in a hotel for 14 days and return straight back home. No seeing her son!! Or the family with 3 children in Vic. One can cross the border because she is doing year 11. The rest cant because they may be a covid-19 risk. Huh? They are the same family. And what about South Australia banning anyone from Victoria regardless of how sick they are from getting their treatment in SA, as well as interstate students. But allowing hundreds of students in from Singapore.
I get it. Public servants are not allowed to think. They just follow orders. Orders given by dumb arsed politicians who only care about polls. Am I cranky? You bet. This country is being run by idiots with zero common sense. Protect the population. I have no issues with that. But find solutions instead of sticking their collective empty heads in the sand.
By the way. Notice how those who are making and enforcing the rules have secure jobs and just given themselves a pay rise.
One more thing. The Qld premier stated the Qld hospitals are for Qld residents. Well if you come from Qld and ever get a chance to go interstate don't expect any medical care while out of Qld. How dumb are all these folks.
Yeah before you fire back just remember who you voted for last election.
Ahhh humbug.
not so dumb. each state pays for their hospitals. Qld hospitals for qld. residents Well where do u draw the line? I recall a new zealander coming to qld years ago for heart surgery. How many from northern nsw use qld hospitals? The cost would be huge. Perhaps, if a resident from another state gets sick in another state then there state reimburses the state they r in. I have no answer but this virus sure has opened up a division n can of worms. One rule for everyone n that goes for mask wearing, borders, whatever. At present, we will never get this virus under control while the rules do not apply to everyone.
Like most people I paid 2% of my taxable income to the Federal Government last year which went towards ensuring all Australians are covered for treatment in the public hospital system anywhere in Australia and its territories. We also pay private health insurance which supposedly covers us for private hospital treatment and various other health costs Australia wide ? The Qid premier needs to keep in mind before making those sort of comments (if she did) that the Qld budget is being subsidised by NSW, Vic and WA GST dollars ....
I will temper my statement with the facts that I spent my entire working life working for government. 31 years Army and 14 years as a Federal Public Servant working for the Dept of Defence. My view may be warped to some.
I believe the old adage of "You reap what you sow".
Firstly, We have politicians, sadly, these days from both major parties who have NEVER worked in other than political offices. Straight from Uni to a party members office, after demonstrating their loyalty to the party, they get nominated for a marginal seat at an election. If they are elected, whoopee, if the have a good showing they are nominated again at the next election, be it state or federal. Again if they are successful, whoopee, if not, it is often a case of rinse and repeat or very rarely, bad luck the electorate doesn't like you!
Secondly, we have many senior public servants who are political appointments for various reasons eg. see my first point, or a supporters of the party, possibly even members or even "good" friends of members. These people have sat around fat dumb and happy for many years, never really having to perform, never really being under any pressure and ALWAYS have committee or collegiate decisions being made the absolves them from any responsibility or accountability. "The group thought it was the best course of action!" or "I placed that into the hands of my Assistant Assistant Deputy Director to manage" (because I thought I may need a potential scapegoat).
Thirdly we have political parties driving their agendas and rather than appoint public servants AT ALL LEVELS based on MERIT, etc., it is now based on diversity, gender, skin colour, ethnic group, etc. under the universal employment equality banner.
NSW has bludged off the Qld coffers to support northern NSW for decades. Qld and Feds paid for the Tugun bypass, same road is built to NSW specs re: signage even on the Qld side. Both states benefit greatly though. NSW health would have to spend a lot of dough in border regions to catch up with Qld but they traditionally don't bother. NSW GPs and emergency services routinely send patients to Qld hospitals and routinely ask NSW Health for beef up NSW hospitals only to be ignored. The reciprocal arrangements have meaningless value to Qld because even SEQs oldest hospitals have superior services to NSW Health. Funded by the Feds to some extent .... true, but only able to function when extra funds come from within each state and NSW govts have ignored Northern NSW because Qld hasn't ignored SEQ.
NSW has bludged off the Qld coffers to support northern NSW for decades. Qld and Feds paid for the Tugun bypass, same road is built to NSW specs re: signage even on the Qld side. Both states benefit greatly though. NSW health would have to spend a lot of dough in border regions to catch up with Qld but they traditionally don't bother. NSW GPs and emergency services routinely send patients to Qld hospitals and routinely ask NSW Health for beef up NSW hospitals only to be ignored. The reciprocal arrangements have meaningless value to Qld because even SEQs oldest hospitals have superior services to NSW Health. Funded by the Feds to some extent .... true, but only able to function when extra funds come from within each state and NSW govts have ignored Northern NSW because Qld hasn't ignored SEQ.
By your reasoning dabbler NSW and the Feds are also paying for the rest of the Pacific Hwy upgrade from the Qld border all the way down to Hexham which will have a far greater financial benefit for both states than just one small section like the Tugun bypass - in reality these roads are probably built to a national/international spec. for signage etc.. As I said in NSW we are currently paying taxes into the Qid coffers so if each state were to get back 100% of the GST that they paid maybe we could beef up our hospitals in northern NSW. Saying that the Qld Govt hasn't ignored SEQ is like saying that the NSW govt. hasnt ignored the Sydney basin - of course they wont because that's where the majority of the people who keep them in a job happen to live.
BB, NSW didn't pay for any of the Tugun bypass including that part on the NSW side. That is about 4km of the 7km distance and 70% of the total cost of the project. Both states benefit, one state didn't pay.
Signage is NSW specs not national. Even on Qld side. NSW wouldn't agree to the road unless the whole project met NSW apecs (again, not National) for every element. Qld signage specs meet national standards or the Feds wouldn't have coughed up the money. As I said, successive NSW govts have ignored the northern rivers and beyond and have created a medical reliance on Qld hospitals.
So dabbler on your logic residents in Geelong are bludging off Melbourne because they go to Melbourne for their health care!! Residents in Wagga are bludging off Sydney. The simple fact is that 700000 people live on the Gold Coast and only a fraction of that in the northern rivers region. Simple logic, logistics and numbers dictate that you build where the demand is. How about we apply the same logic to the Gold Coast airport. Everyone in NSW should use the Sydney airport.
Signage is NSW specs not national. Even on Qld side. NSW wouldn't agree to the road unless the whole project met NSW apecs (again, not National) for every element. Qld signage specs meet national standards or the Feds wouldn't have coughed up the money. As I said, successive NSW govts have ignored the northern rivers and beyond and have created a medical reliance on Qld hospitals.
Apparently NSW follows the Australian Standard AS 1743-2018 for road signage which all states have agreed to follow. NSW may not have paid for the Tugan upgrade but along with the FED govt. we have been paying for the 600km Pacific Hwy upgrade from the Qld border to Hexham - maybe a few of you Qlders have benefited from driving on it even though you didnt contribute anything . Seriously both of our arguments dont really make much sense because people from all over Australia pay their taxes which the Federal govt. then uses to allocate funds for road projects nationwide.
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Friday 21st of August 2020 09:48:20 AM
I wonder what the detractors imagine is in the Position Description for any Public Servant that requires them to be an expert in all matters relevant to the Pandemic. The people at the top who should be planning for all the individual cases, such as the incident at the top of the thread, need a kick in the arse, not the Public Servants trying to implement silly impractical rules. Cross border rules only establish lines on a map. Moving some of the lines would go a long way to easing the situation.
Iza
__________________
Iza
Semi-permanent state of being Recreationally Outraged as a defence against boredom during lockdown.
You must also realize that public servants have been pulled off their regular duties to man the fort in the face of the pandemic.
Many of them find themselves way out of their depth placed in an area that they have little or no expertise. Successive governments of both persuasions have stripped the public service back to a level which in many areas is struggling to cope. The service has lost many of it's good people and often employ people now on short term contracts who are young and often poorly trained. These are the ones who are often at the coal face who have to deal with the general public. They are often poorly supported from the upper levels so keep this in mind the next time you are dealing with that young person at the ATO or Centrelink. They are trying their best under large workloads without much support thanks to their political masters. The public service is under staffed in many of these key areas all because it is politically popular to push the notion that the government can run it leaner and meaner.
Hang on a minute. Before folks start to make excuses for all those making dumb decisions just ask yourself a simple question. If you were at work and a customer came in and said I want to move my harvester from Vic to NSW you wouldn't say "put it on a plane". Or maybe some would! COMMON SENSE would tell you that a harvester wont fit on a plane. So even if you were the new office boy you would say, "hang on a minute I'll ask the boss". If the boss doesn't know you we keep asking up the chain until you had passed the buck to someone else.
For sure those way at the top are the guilty parties. But don't fully excuse those at the bottom of the chain for not using some initiative. And when I say 'at the top' I mean both public servants and politicians. From both sides of the political scene.
In all walks of life one needs to be responsible for the consequences of their actions. That includes all those making dumb announcements without thinking the problem through. There are solutions but what is happening is simply a matter of creating more problems from the initial problem.
Let me be clear. This is not a public servant bashing exercise. The vast majority of public servants are doing a fine job. But knee jerk reactions with 'solutions' that create 'problems' by a minority is tarnishing the whole public servant sector.
Let me be clear. This is not a public servant bashing exercise. The vast majority of public servants are doing a fine job. But knee jerk reactions with 'solutions' that create 'problems' by a minority is tarnishing the whole public servant sector.
I don't know, but I was a contractor who happened to have the expertise they required. I always found them hard working, keen to learn and much like any other workplace. You have your smart cookies and some very dumb ones. You have people who love their work and others to whom it is a means to an end. Its the ones who let the power they have go to their head that I found annoying and there were plenty of those.
I hope they go after those that started all this with the same vigor we are pursuing these, our own people. But I doubt it.
-- Edited by msg on Saturday 22nd of August 2020 05:11:53 PM
COMMON SENSE would tell you that a harvester wont fit on a plane.
I'm pretty sure "Demonstrated knowledge of the size and weight and transport requirements of a harvester (sic)" does not appear in the selection criteria for any Public Service position.
Iza
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Iza
Semi-permanent state of being Recreationally Outraged as a defence against boredom during lockdown.
I have had numerous contractual positions over the years with various State and Commonwealth agencies and found the majority are a hard working and dedicated lot.
I have also encountered some of the whinging ungrateful morons that they have to deal with on a daily basis and fully understand why some get a bit jaded.
The average public servant just carries out the policies he or she have been instructed to follow.
If there are issues then I would look to the people who made the policy, not those following instructions.
I believe the Public Service is a reflection of greater society. That is, the level of incompetence, or stupid or annoying behaviour is no higher than outside of the Public Service.
As DMaxer and others have said, generally they just enforce the rules they are given to work with.
__________________
Regards Ian
Chaos, mayhem, confusion. Good my job here is done
I think that is a pretty good definition, "enforce the rules they are given to work with", you have to remember there are people out there who have never been to a farm, and have absolutely know idea of what say a harvester would be doing, or even look like. And conversely the same would be true of country folk, and their knowledge of the city.
I think that is a pretty good definition, "enforce the rules they are given to work with", you have to remember there are people out there who have never been to a farm, and have absolutely know idea of what say a harvester would be doing, or even look like. And conversely the same would be true of country folk, and their knowledge of the city.
i heard an old saying once or twice "no stupid questions only stupid answers"
Hang on a minute. Before folks start to make excuses for all those making dumb decisions just ask yourself a simple question. If you were at work and a customer came in and said I want to move my harvester from Vic to NSW you wouldn't say "put it on a plane". Or maybe some would! COMMON SENSE would tell you that a harvester wont fit on a plane. So even if you were the new office boy you would say, "hang on a minute I'll ask the boss". If the boss doesn't know you we keep asking up the chain until you had passed the buck to someone else.
For sure those way at the top are the guilty parties. But don't fully excuse those at the bottom of the chain for not using some initiative. And when I say 'at the top' I mean both public servants and politicians. From both sides of the political scene.
In all walks of life one needs to be responsible for the consequences of their actions. That includes all those making dumb announcements without thinking the problem through. There are solutions but what is happening is simply a matter of creating more problems from the initial problem.
Let me be clear. This is not a public servant bashing exercise. The vast majority of public servants are doing a fine job. But knee jerk reactions with 'solutions' that create 'problems' by a minority is tarnishing the whole public servant sector.
where does the "minister for aged care" fit into the bigger picture
Dogbox that's the main issue. 'Orders' or 'instructions' coming down from the top simply don't meet the pub test. Give a dumb instruction to a public servant that just kicks the can down the road then what else can you expect. But there is still some onus on those down the chain to ask questions of their superiors.
. Seriously both of our arguments dont really make much sense because people from all over Australia pay their taxes which the Federal govt. then uses to allocate funds for road projects nationwide.
