check out the new remote control Jockey Wheel SmartBar rearview170 Topargee products Enginesaver Low Water Alarms
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Breakaway Battery


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Date:
Breakaway Battery


I took the van in the other day for a rego check and for the first time ever I was asked where the breakaway battery was located. I showed them where it was located and it was flashing away. The van then got jacked up and wheels spun and the cord was pulled on the unit- nothing happened. Long story short the battery although flashing was dead. I bought new battery, guy installed it and all worked. The van is 8 years old and it must have been the original as I have never changed it in the 4 years I have had van. It was the first time it has ever been checked in a rego inspection. Just as well I found out there and not out on the highway.

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 543
Date:

If you have a look there is usually written somewhere ( either on the unit or in the book ) replace battery every 2 years .

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 5536
Date:

.

On our breakaway battery holder there is a tester and it only takes a second to test.

I also do a multi metre test to be sure every so often.

The first battery lasted just short of 9 years.



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1282
Date:

The breakaway on our van is connected to house batteries.



__________________

Those who wish to reap the blessings of freedom must, as men, endure the fatigue of defending it.

Thomas Paine.

 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 5388
Date:

That was something I was unaware of DMaxer, so thanks for that info

This has now got me thinking, about some of the caravan roll overs, we hear about

If the breakaway battery was not working correctly, when a driver makes an emergency stop, would the weight of the pushing caravan, jackknife the towing vehicle

__________________

Tony

It cost nothing to be polite



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 543
Date:

Tony the brakeaway battery has no function at all in the day to day operation of a caravan brakes ,they are powered from the tug .the battery in the brake system is solely there to apply the van brakes in the situation where the van becomes detached from the tug and becomes a runaway . law states the battery must be able to keep the brake applied for 15 minutes .

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 4706
Date:

I'll take a wild guess that in the event they are ever needed 80% of breakaway systems will not function correctly due to the battery having a significantly reduced capacity due to ageing.

I'm suppose the controllers do a load test from time-to-time but unless it is a sophisticated process and performed under known and repeatable conditions then it's of limited to zero value.

And how does the controller notify if it detects problems? Mine is tucked away in the front tunnel out of sight, maybe it has a beeper?

And if the van does break away I suspect it will be doing cartwheels well before the brakes come on.

A nice idea but of very limited value in the real world I suspect.



__________________

 

"I beseech you in the bowels of Christ think it possible you may be mistaken"

Oliver Cromwell, 3rd August 1650 - in a letter to the General Assembly of the Kirk of Scotland



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Date:

I agree with you Mike. If I was in the unfortunate position of having the van come loose at say 80kph my high school physics tell me that it is not just going to glide to an uneventful stop because the breakaway brakes might come on.

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2923
Date:

I think the rule, and the wording on the "Beak away unit" instructions has changed, and the two year rule no longer applies, also it reads that the unit can be powered from the van battery supply if required. So long as the brake test works (braking and time) that's all that's required.

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1251
Date:

Thanks for the post. It is a concern that the light was saying ok but the battery was u/s. You have prompted me to go and put the multi meter on mine and do a test.

__________________

Greg O'Brien



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1237
Date:

Testing a breakaway battery by just measuring its voltage will tell you nothing about the condition of the battery. A totally stuffed battery still connected to the system will still give a voltage reading as if the battery is OK. The only way to check its condition is to disconnect it and do a load test. To my knowledge the breakaway units have no inbuilt load testing circuitry and rely solely on voltage  to indicate OK

Alan.



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 543
Date:

agree Alan pull it out and load test it is the only way to be sure . still say its cheap insurance to replace every couple of years , i mean what do they cost about $40 .

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 5388
Date:

I have never owned a caravan with electric brakes

Thanks to everyone who pointed out, that the breakaway battery, has nothing to do with normal breaking

Today will be a good day, as I have learned something new

__________________

Tony

It cost nothing to be polite



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Date:

I knew the van had a breakaway unit but never gave it too much thought. I would just hook it up as part of the process when travelling. I admit, the only reason I knew it had a battery was I found it when I opened a cupboard in a rather inaccessible area of the van when I was trying to resolve my last drama of the power input tripping when I used the kettle. I saw everything was flashing and did not give it a second thought.

When the wheels did not lock when the guy testing it for rego pulled the pin, the first thing he asked me was "where is the battery". He suggested I try an auto electrician as the brakes worked fine when the pedal was depressed in the tug. I saw the auto electrician and he tested the battery and said it was ok. He then checked underneath the van and informed me there was no charge going there. He then decided to change the battery as the first job as he informed me that is the usual problem. That fixed it so I went straight back to the rego man and he passed the van.

The funny thing about it was both the rego checker and the auto electrician both thought the battery was ok because of the flashing light and the voltage test. It was only after I told the auto electrician that the van was a 2012 model that I had owned for the last four years and that I had not changed the battery and that the original owner would not have either as the van had been stored for most of its initial four years.

For those that are still awake through my ramblings, the only way this would have been detected was pulling the pin. How about that!



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 197
Date:

Morning Dmaxer,

Yes I found our Breakaway battery  In our 2015 Jayco, tucked up under the front of our bed, out of sight out of mind.

I was doing pre checks before our last trip. It was DEAD after 4 years.

After looking around for a replacement 7.2amp battery I found one. Only to find out after getting home the terminals that just push on were the wrong size. Took it back and got a refund.

The good news is That ALL Big Green Sheds carry 7.2amp replacements with the correct terminals.

PS: Only $27.00  versus $52 else where.

They can be located at the front of the power tool section on the bottom shelf. They carry 2 x types.

Easy to replace if you have a good back. I had to lie on the floor under the bed to get to ours.hmm

Grey



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 158
Date:

This is an excellent post D Maxer.

I did not know what a "breakaway battery" was.

So I googled....then put 2 and  2 together.

cheers Bilbo



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 543
Date:

bilbo wrote:

This is an excellent post D Maxer.

I did not know what a "breakaway battery" was.

So I googled....then put 2 and  2 together.

cheers Bilbo


  And what did you come up with confuse...... 



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 4532
Date:

Possibly 7 ? . Ours was in the front boot and had been put in the very top corner. Could only have been done prior to cladding the frame I reckon. Lucky the vent/grill was right beside it, so I could get it out after it died. Relocated to top of house battery box. But apparently it can suck the juice out of house battery if the 3 way switch is not moved to off when parked up. But then it doesnt get a monthly charge when I plug in 240v, if I forget about it. Weird way of doing things, thanks Paramount.

__________________

Cheers Craig



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2814
Date:

You could jack up the wheel and test yourself, even if the battery says it's good.

It's law in NSW to have a breakaway battery Monitor in the tow vehicle, other States it's optional.

Cheers Bob

__________________

Make it Snappy......Bob

 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2041
Date:

Hi Bob. My car and van are registered in NSW and I do not have a monitor in the car. This is the first time the breakaway has been checked and no mention was made of a monitor. The guy that checked it for rego was going from a checklist and never mentioned it. He just wanted to see if the battery was flashing.

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2814
Date:

DMaxer wrote:

Hi Bob. My car and van are registered in NSW and I do not have a monitor in the car. This is the first time the breakaway has been checked and no mention was made of a monitor. The guy that checked it for rego was going from a checklist and never mentioned it. He just wanted to see if the battery was flashing.


 Hey DMaxer, I have heard of it before in NSW, but wasn't sure so I googled it and it is true, a quote from the webpage..........

Special breakaway battery monitor requirements in NSW

If registered in NSW you must meet the extra requirement of being able to monitor your breakaway battery from the tow vehicle.

The VIB6 inspection bulletin from the NSW Roads and Maritime Services states the following:

  1. It will be satisfactory if any trailer-mounted battery is constantly charged by the towing vehicle and a warning device is fitted to warn the driver (from the normal driving position) if the trailer battery charge falls to such a level as to render the trailer brakes incapable of meeting the requirements.
  2. Trailers required to be fitted with caravan breakaway systems are not registerable if there is no means for maintaining the breakaway energy source in a fully energised condition (for example, if a charging and warning circuit is not fitted).
  3. An acceptable warning circuit must incorporate either a visual or an audible warning device.

In addition to a trailer breakaway system, a crucial accessory for safe towing is a reliable electric brake controller. For the smoothest proportional brake response, get brake smart, get elecbrakes.

 

I think number 2 refers to an ordinary trailer without a house battery.

Cheers Bob



__________________

Make it Snappy......Bob

 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2923
Date:

Have a read about it here, it appears the laws in NSW have been relaxed.www.caravansplus.com.au/guides/the-caravaners-guide-to-braking-laws-a-46.html

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 2814
Date:

iana wrote:

Have a read about it here, it appears the laws in NSW have been relaxed.www.caravansplus.com.au/guides/the-caravaners-guide-to-braking-laws-a-46.html


 Well done Ian, there are enough laws for caravans without being different in each State..........have my doubts whether the breakaway system would stop a van separated from the tug, at say 100 kph.

Cheers Bob



__________________

Make it Snappy......Bob

 



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1237
Date:

The tug mounted monitors that were once required by NSW reg. vehicles were just as useless at indicating battery condition as the test buttons on the break safe units as they only indicate voltage. A stuffed battery connected to a charging circuit would give a voltage that says it OK. Maybe this is why this requirement has been dropped.

Alan



__________________


Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 169
Date:

It has been mentioned several times on this site and elsewhere that the requirement for a remote battery monitor in NSW has been relaxed or changed.

However it all seems anecdotal. ie someone heard or it appears or someone told me etc etc

No-one has been able to provide an authoritative documented reference showing the regulation has been changed.

Can anyone provide a link or reference to such a document.  Would be much appreciated.

 

CaravansPlus:

"Remote battery monitors are used to provide the driver with an indication of the charge in the battery used to power the electric brakes when the emergency system is activated. These were mandatory in NSW from 2007 to 2016 however it appears the laws have been relaxed."

 

Ken



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1010
Date:

There is no longer a requirement in NSW (and other states) for a battery condition monitor in the tow vehicle, according to transport NSW Technical Enquiries.

The old Inspection Document used by their inspectors was VIB6. This is now replaced by AIS 31. See below a copy of AIS 31 from their website:-

 

"Light trailers with breakaway brakes now inspected by ASCIS and AUVIS Purpose To advise Authorised Inspection Scheme (AIS) proprietors, nominees, alternative nominees and examiners that Authorised Safety Check Inspection Scheme (ASCIS) stations and Authorised Unregistered Vehicle Inspection Scheme (AUVIS) stations can now inspect trailers that have an Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM) of 4.5 tonne or less including those fitted with breakaway brakes, except those fitted with air or vacuum (breakaway) braking systems. Heavy Vehicle Authorised Inspection Scheme (HVAIS) stations will continue to be able to inspect these trailers. Background The new AIS Business Rules for Authorised Proprietors and Authorised Examiners (the AIS Rules) come into effect 1 October 2016. The AIS Rules were amended to include this change of vehicle category to align with Heavy Vehicle National Law and the National Heavy Vehicle Regulator implementation.  Brake system definitions Hauling vehicle service brakes Power-assisted hydraulic brakes are those braking systems in which an energy source is used to provide part of the braking effort. This is normally air-assisted for a heavy vehicle and vacuum assisted for light vehicles. Power-operated brakes are those systems normally used on heavy commercial vehicles and in which the total braking effort is supplied directly by the power source. In such systems, the driver operates the system by controlling the energy source which is usually compressed air. NOTE: The essential difference between power-assisted and power-operated is that power-assisted brakes will still function even if air or vacuum is lost, whereas power-operated brakes will not. Trailer brakes Independent brakes are those brakes that are activated by the driver of the motor vehicle towing the trailer from the driving position and will operate whether or not the vehicle is moving. Over-ride brakes are those brakes that are activated by the movement of the trailer relative to the motor vehicle towing the trailer. Breakaway brakes are those brakes that operate automatically and quickly if the trailer breaks away from the towing vehicle. Maximum inspection fees There is no change to the maximum inspection fee for HVAIS for a light trailer with breakaway brakes. For ASCIS and AUVIS these trailers will be treated as a trailer with brakes. For more information refer to AIS Notice 18.
1
Test procedures. Check Method of inspection. Reason for rejection 1. Battery and associated wiring Visual 1. Battery insecure 2. Wiring is not secured at 600mm intervals 3. Insulation is damaged 4. Wiring fouling moving parts 2. Earth return from the trailer to the hauling unit a) Visual b) Disconnect trailer from the hauling unit With the trailer disconnected, the brakes on the trailer do not operate correctly 3. Earth return from brake foundation unit to chassis Visual Missing or damaged direct positive earth system 4. Breakaway protection system operation Disconnect breakaway switch plug/cable from hauling unit 1. Trailer brakes do not apply immediately when the breakaway switch plug/cable is disconnected from hauling unit 2. Trailer brakes do not remain applied for at least 15 minutes 6. Trailer brakes can be applied from the drivers seated position Visual Trailer brakes cannot be applied by the driver whilst retaining normal driving position 7. Check any hydraulic brake controller for leaks Visual  Any indication of an hydraulic leak 8. Presence of controller override device Visual Missing or inoperative control 9. Braking efficiency a) Use of Roller Brake Testing Machine in accordance with VIB 28 b) Where a Roller Brake Testing Machine is not available, test in accordance with Rules 181.01, 181.02, 181.03 and 181.04* of Rules for AIS (ASCIS)  * where fitted, parking brakes must comply with Rule 181.04 1. Performance is not in accordance with VIB 28
 2. Performance is not in accordance with Rules 181.01, 181.02, 181.03 and 181.04* of Rules for AIS (ASCIS)  * where fitted, parking brakes must comply with Rule 181.04
 
 
 
AIS Notice 31  RMS 16.434 2
Inspection procedures The following Vehicle Inspectors Bulletin (VIB) and Vehicle Standards Information (VSI) should be used as guidance when inspecting any light trailer: VSI 22 Electric Brakes fitted to Large Trailers VSI 52 Certification of new trailers up to and including 4.5 tonnes ATM VSB 1 Building small trailers.
 
Further information For more information, please visit the Roads and Maritimes website.
 
Technical Enquiries unit M PO Box 1120, Parramatta NSW 2124 T 1300 137 302  F 02 8837 0037  E technical.enquiries@rms.nsw.gov.au "



__________________

Chris & Sharyn.

Tea Gardens. NSW.

2015 VW Touareg V6 Air suspension, 2012 Jayco Sterling 21.



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1010
Date:

Might be easier to read here:--

file:///C:/Users/User/AppData/Local/Temp/AIS_Notice_31_-_Light_trailers_with_breakaway_brakes_.pdf



__________________

Chris & Sharyn.

Tea Gardens. NSW.

2015 VW Touareg V6 Air suspension, 2012 Jayco Sterling 21.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 254
Date:

How do we download the pdf file?

Laurie



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1010
Date:

laurieoz wrote:

How do we download the pdf file?

Laurie


 Just copy the link below and paste in your browser Laurie.



__________________

Chris & Sharyn.

Tea Gardens. NSW.

2015 VW Touareg V6 Air suspension, 2012 Jayco Sterling 21.



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 169
Date:

Hi Chris, Sharon,

I don't disagree with you at all, it's just that I can't find any documentation stating what the full current requirements are.

You have provided a reference for (AIS 31) in which it the inspection requirements now (since 2016) omit the requirement of checking for a remote monitor.

It is not clear if that omission implies that there is no longer a requirement at all, or that it is not required to check for one.

ie Do the Inspection requirements fully cover all and every requirement of breakaway brake systems or only an easily inspected subset of the requirements 


It would be good to see the full and entire regulation to be able to ascertain ALL requirements not only Inspection Requirements (AIS-31) .

Can someone point me in that direction?

I am not trying to be difficult, it's just that i want to be sure of the the requirements


Ken



-- Edited by kgarnett on Tuesday 25th of August 2020 05:39:23 PM

__________________
1 2  >  Last»  | Page of 2  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us
Purchase Grey Nomad bumper stickers Read our daily column, the Nomad News The Grey Nomad's Guidebook