Corona Virus - Please keep this non political

Gundog · Guru

Corona Virus - Please keep this non political

Whenarewethere · Guru

We are both retired & 100% self funded & can keep going for years. Income has dropped but we have also stopped spending with our savings increasing. Just too much hassle, & enjoy our own time.

We listen to a lot of news & we just shake our heads at the complete lack of common sense.

All these different health systems around the country, I am surprised that we don't have different railway gauges in every state.

dorian · Guru

Sweden has a "don't care" policy, with the expectation that the country will eventually benefit from herd immunity. They sacrificed a lot of their old folks to this idea, but their economic situation is now no better than their neighbours.

msg · Guru

I'm a little confused by what a 7% decrease in GDP really means.

bgt · Guru

I think what is getting most folks wound up is the inconsistent messages. The rules for some and not others, ie AFL in QLD. The lack of common sense and the powers that unelected CMO's have over our lives. Premiers agreeing at a cabinet meeting and then doing their own thing. Etc etc etc. The flu has been around since forever. There is a vaccine for flu. Yet every year hundreds of folks die from the flu. So what makes anyone think that IF a vaccine for covid is released and IF everyone is vaccinated that we are going to see a miracle return to the good old days? The politicians are selling false hopes. Covid is here to stay. So we have to learn to live with it. Or be locked up by big brother forever. It's not left v right politics. Look at the various states. It's a power/control issue with a few self important public servants with no skin in the game. And weak politicians looking at the bloody polls.

Old and Grey · Senior Member

Hi Gundog,

If you have a spare 15minutes. Take the time to WATCH the U TUBE channel Interview.. Titled: (Professor Richard Woiff - Coming Economic Crash).

You might take a right hand turn and rethink how the World is changing.

We Old and Myself, listen to many of the Worlds Knowledgable people.

Professor Woiff is a well respected Economist.

Of all the people, He in our opinion is 100% correct.

We too, Know the world will change again.

Please keep safe and well, to one and all.

Old & Grey

msg · Guru

BGT wrote: "It's a power/control issue with a few self important public servants with no skin in the game. And weak politicians looking at the bloody polls."

I think the CMO's & the WHO are into this conspiracy big time as well. Who really has control? China?, Russia?, America? or ......?

Mike Harding · Guru

bgt wrote:
I think what is getting most folks wound up is the inconsistent messages. The rules for some and not others, ie AFL in QLD. The lack of common sense and the powers that unelected CMO's have over our lives. Premiers agreeing at a cabinet meeting and then doing their own thing. Etc etc etc. The flu has been around since forever. There is a vaccine for flu. Yet every year hundreds of folks die from the flu. So what makes anyone think that IF a vaccine for covid is released and IF everyone is vaccinated that we are going to see a miracle return to the good old days? The politicians are selling false hopes. Covid is here to stay. So we have to learn to live with it. Or be locked up by big brother forever. It's not left v right politics. Look at the various states. It's a power/control issue with a few self important public servants with no skin in the game. And weak politicians looking at the bloody polls.

I don't often quote posts in full but this one deserves it; well said sir.

Gundog: all salient points you raise.

In truth this virus has had no impact upon me beyond a minor irritation at not being able to travel interstate. BUT the Victorian government response to it is causing *major* problems for one hell of a lot of people.

Look at the C19 death statistics; the vast majority are aged over 70 and probably have other health conditions too. I'm sorry to break it to the other oldies out there but (I'm 65) all of us are going to die soon and we should not try to take the economy and mental health of many others down in order that we may live a little longer.

And, of course, if there is a "Third Wave" then the previous 12 week lockdown and this even more harsh lockdown will all have been a total waste of time... won't they....

Tony LEE · Guru

"The lack of common sense and the powers that unelected CMO's have over our lives" So you would rather have a clown like trump running Australia's Covid-19 response? Surely not! That here we DON'T have elected officials running everything like they do in the good ol USA, is the one thing that will save us.

Recoup · Guru

Someone knew the virus was coming, World Bank Records Covid-19 Test Kits Exported In 2017-2018 , https://nationalfile.com/world-bank-records-covid-19-test-kits-exported-in-2018/

-- Edited by Recoup on Tuesday 8th of September 2020 03:39:17 PM

bgt · Guru

Tony LEE whats Trump got to do with this thread that specifically asked to keep the thread non political?

msg · Guru

Tony LEE, This is an apolitical thread. Keep it that way.

TheHeaths · Guru

I am astounded by the fact that in 2018, tests were purportedly being made and exported around the world for Covid19, so named for actually breaking out and being named in 2019!

I can believe there may have been non specific Coronavirus tests available in 2018, but not a specific Covid19 test.

I would view this information with a sceptical eye to its validity.

On the matter of the vaccine, I believe the issue is that without the actions taken, the likelihood is that there would have been many more deaths from Covid19 than from the flu with its vaccine, much the same way as we used to experience the higher death rate with the flu pre vaccine. I expect that the hope is that a vaccine will allow us to accept a death rate similar to the flu when we return to whatever the new level of normal life is.

We shall see, but I agree some level of this virus is undeniable, as worldwide we cannot, or will not, do the things required to eradicate it.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Tuesday 8th of September 2020 04:40:09 PM

msg · Guru

Recoup, Whilst I can quite believe your assertion about somebody knowing this was coming, I don't think this document means much. IMHO They would have used the real name(can't remember what it is) not COVID19 as in the description.

-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 8th of September 2020 04:50:10 PM

-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 8th of September 2020 04:52:08 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
I am astounded by the fact that in 2018, tests were purportedly being made and exported around the world for Covid19, so named for actually breaking out and being named in 2019!

No different to buying a new car in 2018 & its a MY19.

Southern Cruizer · Guru

The eyes of Darkness.jpg

A family member found this earlier this year and passed it onto me.

Wonder if this person is still alive and can tell us when it will be gone so we have nothing to worry about

dabbler · Guru

This thread has veered way too far into tinfoil hat territory.

Izabarack · Guru

dorian wrote:
They sacrificed a lot of their old folks to this idea, but their economic situation is now no better than their neighbours.

Good point. Plenty of examples out there of what not to do, the USA shows what happens when lockdowns are lifted too early. There are no examples out there that support any argument for lifting restrictions before the figures convince qualified people that it is the right time. WA, Qld, and SA have demonstrated competent ways to go about keeping people safe. The biggest problem with trying to compare alternative opinions about what to do is that all the models rely on the population to get on board and comply with the rules. The recent protests against the lockdowns are examples of a small number of idiots stuffing up any progress made so far.

Iza

Rob Driver · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
dorian wrote:
They sacrificed a lot of their old folks to this idea, but their economic situation is now no better than their neighbours.
Good point. Plenty of examples out there of what not to do, the USA shows what happens when lockdowns are lifted too early. There are no examples out there that support any argument for lifting restrictions before the figures convince qualified people that it is the right time. WA, Qld, and SA have demonstrated competent ways to go about keeping people safe. The biggest problem with trying to compare alternative opinions about what to do is that all the models rely on the population to get on board and comply with the rules. The recent protests against the lockdowns are examples of a small number of idiots stuffing up any progress made so far.
Iza

I think this article says it all. Lifting restrictions too early will be more disastrous than a few more week of lock down.

From Lost Melbourne

We as humans do not learn from history and are therefore doomed to repeat it. The Spanish flu lasted for 2 years. The second wave killed far more people than the first, and in total there were 4 waves.

It killed somewhere between 20 million to 50 million people. Citizens were ordered to wear masks, and everywhere shut down and boarded up schools, movie theaters, and business. Mail distribution stopped, as did garbage collection.

Many people had to dig graves for their own family members.

Here we are 100 years later, and what have we learned? Half the people do not want to wear masks because they think it is a hoax/it is not that bad/the government is lying/insert insane right-wing conspiracy theory rhetoric here.

People want to prioritize their own narcissistic desires and privileges over other human beings lives.

What did they have in 1918? No TV. No internet, not a lot of food supply.

What do we have? TV, internet, movies that can be watched from home, UberEATS...you name it. And yet we are a world full of entitled and selfish people who lack human empathy and act oppressed when given any minute sense of responsibility.

Travel is not a necessity. Movie theaters are not a necessity. Throwing parties is not a necessity. Very few activities are considered essential.

Being a decent human being should not be a revolutionary act....it should be common sense.

Quoted from a site,

Lost Melbourne

Magnarc · Guru

Gundog, your chances of this thread staying "non political" are practically non existent.

bgt · Guru

It's easy to keep politics out of the discussion. Just talk facts. The sad thing is is that some folks simply can't debate on facts and have to bring "opinion" in as fact. There is no one answer. Somewhere between full lockdown and back to "normal" is a sweet spot. The problem is agreeing on what the sweet spot is.

Gundog · Guru

What I am bringing into question is who can you trust, in the light a such conflicting opinion from CHO's. Now we hear Victoria's current restrictions are based on a lie, because their CHO threw Dan under the bus, suggesting he offered no advice on curfews that the decisions were made by the Premier alone to make it easier for police enforcement.

Rob Driver · Guru

Gundog wrote:
What I am bringing into question is who can you trust, in the light a such conflicting opinion from CHO's. Now we hear Victoria's current restrictions are based on a lie, because their CHO threw Dan under the bus, suggesting he offered no advice on curfews that the decisions were made by the Premier alone to make it easier for police enforcement.

An interesting post from the OP considering he wanted politics kept our of the discussion.

Regards

Angie

msg · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
Gundog wrote:
What I am bringing into question is who can you trust, in the light a such conflicting opinion from CHO's. Now we hear Victoria's current restrictions are based on a lie, because their CHO threw Dan under the bus, suggesting he offered no advice on curfews that the decisions were made by the Premier alone to make it easier for police enforcement.
An interesting post from the OP considering he wanted politics kept our of the discussion.
Regards
Angie

Political?

bgt · Guru

IMHO politics is when it becomes a left v right debate. Sheeting home the blame isn't politics.

Izabarack · Guru

Which major political party is in power in state or national is not as important as the motivation for action at each level. It appears, to me, that the Federal Govt is mostly concerned about the economy, over people. The states seem to be mostly concerned with the safety of the people, over the economy. Any political oriented discussion can align the conflicting motivations to Left and Right and Major party against Major party. Personally, I prefer the approach that saves lives over saving the economy. If an emphasis on saving the economy gets the upper hand, the current distress will last for a long, long time. As was pointed out above, a serious lockdown effort in China got the outbreak under control and a recovery of that local economy followed. Bit like ripping the band aid off quickly, momentary distress followed by the greater good.

Iza

bgt · Guru

Believe anything out of China?

Gundog · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
A. It appears, to me, that the Federal Govt is mostly concerned about the economy, over people.
B. The states seem to be mostly concerned with the safety of the people, over the economy.
C. I prefer the approach that saves lives over saving the economy.

I thought a reply based on adding bullet points to the major statements.

A. Yes the federal government is concerned about the economy but not at the expence of the people.

B. Yes the states seem to to be concerned about the people, in a short term thinking.

C. There is no point in saving lives, when a failed economy costs more lives by suicide and financial destruction of business that fail thus creating loss of employment ultimatly causing forclosures on morgage's and evictions.

What do you say to the family who after loosing their jobs, loose their home because they can no longer pay their morgage.

Look closely at the stats where the majority of lives being lost. Its not the young and healthy working Australians, its us and those older than us, with underlying medical conditions that need greater protection especially those in nursing home and hospitals.

Why are so many in these facilities becoming the transmission hotspots and super spreaders, its not rocket science simply put health worker A goes to work treats infected individuals using inefectional PPE and then goes home to their family, thats the problem.

Until every person coming in contact with positive Covid people, have proper PPE that is only worn in the facility only, entering the facility each person should be undressing from their street clothes, showering in a sterile enviroment and wearing PPE for their shift, the reverse applies at end of shift.

Izabarack · Guru

Another interesting comparison that is not politically oriented is the quality of news articles from different publishers. Just today, a report from a properly qualified person living in Sweden says the Swedish approach has been a disaster and resulted in lots of excess deaths and a large number of people suffering the after effects of an infection. The report goes on to say that another is likely to happen as the population is told it is OK to go back to normal. This report is supported by facts and figures. The contrast is an article written by a reporter on another news feed that says Sweden's approach has been a success and is "proof" that lockdown is not needed. The second report is in the tone of an Op Ed and only gives one figure to support the thrust of the article.

The real difference in the news feed articles is that one discusses outcomes and one offers a personal opinion.

Iza

Grandad5 · Senior Member

Iza, would you mind posting a link to the Swedish report please? I'd like to read it.
I have a couple of friends touting Sweden as the best approach and have looked, unsuccessfully, for up to date info on their current economy.

Jim