Victoria in Lockdown

Recoup · Guru

Victoria in Lockdown

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

All because one person couldn't stay put AGAIN

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Friday 1st of January 2021 05:09:37 AM

Rob Driver · Guru

Regards

Rob

dogbox · Guru

i am amazed at the number of people still coming into AUS from overseas in the beginning you could have some sympathy for people stranded but we are getting nearly a year into this pandemic . heard one story that a airline had to make 1800 calls from their "waiting list" to get 300 passengers on a flight to Australia 1500 couldn't make it do to their schedules or what ever was more important

Recoup · Guru

Screen Shot 2020-12-29 at 10.06.09 am.png Some times I wonder

bgt · Guru

A very simplistic view of those still over seas. I bet for every Australian still over seas there is a story. Sure some may have taken everything lightly. But many many others weren't in a position to get back to Australia. Not every city or country has direct flights back to Australia. Others have job commitments. Some have family issues. Say may simply have not been able to find the money to pay for airfares. I got very sick in the USA 2 years ago. Try finding a flight that will get you back to Australia under the conditions I had to travel with. It aint easy. And what about our military folks serving over seas? Do we leave them there? Diplomats? Do we say too bad to them? Those with medical issues? Do we leave them where they are?

Bring back Australians. But make sure, bloody sure, that when they return they are properly quarantined.

TheHeaths · Guru

I agree with bgt on this point.

If Australian citizens wish to come home AT ANY TIME, we need to make sure they are able to come home and quarantine.

We should NEVER close our borders to our own citizens, whatever the problem.

Remember, next time it may be you who wants to get home.

With respect to border closures within Australia, my comment would be this based on the current practice of opening and closing borders. The states currently have the right to do this at the moment (and whether that should be the case is a different discussion), but to bring some deeper consideration, other than political expedience which seems to drive the opening and closures at the moment, then:-

1) Where someone has entered a state legally without quarantine restriction when a border is open as normal they should not be required to enter quarantine or isolation if the border subsequently closes.

2) Where a border closes requiring them to quarantine or isolate, while they are in transit to arrive within 48 hours, any cost involved in cancellation of the trip, quarantine or isolation should be borne by the state, not the traveller.

3) Where arrival as per 2) is going to be after 48 hours, and the traveller continues, then costs are at their expense.

That would seem fair when people have planned and spent money based on one set of circumstances, but had the rules changed through no fault of there own.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, I am certain others may hold differing points of view.

bgt · Guru

One point I'm struggling with that others may enlighten me on!!

Qld has shut it's border to NSW. I read that any returning Queenslander needs to go into isolation for 14 days. (ABC in the internet). Ok I get that. But in the same Qld statement they say you can only return to Qld by air and you must isolate in a provided venue at your own expense.

So what is the facts? If you were touring NSW in your RV how do you get back to Qld? Fly? What do you do with your RV?

Whenarewethere · Guru

While everyone is driving non-stop back & forth around the country. Often having just arrived on holidays & turning around to drive non-stop to get back across a border.

Government driver fatigue ads on TV are hypocritical to say the least.

Give people time to drive home safely!

Whenarewethere · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
I agree with bgt on this point.

If Australian citizens wish to come home AT ANY TIME, we need to make sure they are able to come home and quarantine.

We should NEVER close our borders to our own citizens, whatever the problem.

Remember, next time it may be you who wants to get home.

We haven't closed the borders ???

Listening to an interview on the radio recently. About 58,000 people have returned after a plethora of battles to get a flight & at extreme expense. Over the same period 92,000 business trips have occurred!

TheHeaths · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
I agree with bgt on this point.

If Australian citizens wish to come home AT ANY TIME, we need to make sure they are able to come home and quarantine.

We should NEVER close our borders to our own citizens, whatever the problem.

Remember, next time it may be you who wants to get home.
We haven't closed the borders ???
Listening to an interview on the radio recently. About 58,000 people have returned after a plethora of battles to get a flight & at extreme expense. Over the same period 92,000 business trips have occurred!

I know.

My comment was in response to the comment made in the big coloured post by Rob (bentaxlebabe).

It was a statement of my position on the matter, not the fact of the matter.

bgt · Guru

Qld has clarified it's border closure. They are now saying it's close to 'declared hot spots'. Not regional Vic or NSW. The confusion goes on!

But can I get into Vic and SA. Who knows?

If they are going to have these border closures be consistent. The rules keep changing. People want certainty. Have a full closure or a hot spot only closure but second guessing is just too hard. All the folks who couldn't travel overseas and bought or ordered an RV are now wondering if they can even travel their own country. Some say it's good for local tourism. Maybe but only for a limited time. Folks will start spending their money at home and not on touring.

-- Edited by bgt on Saturday 2nd of January 2021 08:50:31 AM

dogbox · Guru

this situation has been going on for nearly a year . people should know by now that if they leave their home turf the situation may change quickly an they may get stranded . if you happen to be one who gets caught out or your holiday plans are disrupted those are the chances we take. deal with it
the more people moving about and socializing the greater the risk.

LIFE IS WHAT HAPPENS WHILE WE ARE BUSY MAKING PLANS

bgt · Guru

So dogbox you're suggesting everyone stay in their own state? I thought Australia was one big country. Not individual countries!!

What about business folk. You suggest they stay at home as well? Sports teams? Medial teams? Politicians? I could go on and even suggest your solution would see the military stay at home. And fire fighters when your state catches on fire.

It amazes me how some folks think the world is so simplistic.

dogbox · Guru

bgt wrote:

So dogbox you're suggesting everyone stay in their own state? I thought Australia was one big country. Not individual countries!!

What about business folk. You suggest they stay at home as well? Sports teams? Medial teams? Politicians? I could go on and even suggest your solution would see the military stay at home. And fire fighters when your state catches on fire.

It amazes me how some folks think the world is so simplistic.

didn't clive palmer try that argument in WA

as far as essential services goes i'm sure there would be some serious control measure to cover them . what i'm refering to is the general population that unless governments control their movement at the moment things will get out of control at the moment hospitals are not stressed.
if i am reading your post right you think people (yourself included) should be able to wander were ever we want and do what we want with no restrictions .
we have plenty of examples of people who don't think the rules apply to themselves an that seem to be a major contributing factor as to why the boarders are closing we as a population can't be trusted because of the ME-ME factor. at some point a line has to be drawn

Recoup · Guru

It will be back to normal (cough ,cough) when we all had the needle ,cheers

dogbox · Guru

Recoup wrote:

It will be back to normal (cough ,cough) when we all had the needle ,cheers

a lot of people will not have the shot for what ever reason , we get a new flu vaccine every year an still a lot of people die from flu issues but we can live with that

dogbox · Guru

bgt wrote:

So dogbox you're suggesting everyone stay in their own state? I thought Australia was one big country. Not individual countries!!

What about business folk. You suggest they stay at home as well? Sports teams? Medial teams? Politicians? I could go on and even suggest your solution would see the military stay at home. And fire fighters when your state catches on fire.

It amazes me how some folks think the world is so simplistic.

where did i suggest for everyone to stay in their home state what i suggested was if you wish to do as you please (which is what it sounds like you want) and the rules change you should not complain if you get caught out

Rob Driver · Guru

My general observation has been by the end of Nov 2020 we virtually had this virus under manageable control in this country.

I dont need to wonder what happened because all those who were overseas and made a choice not to come home when they were advised to do so, back in March, from our Federal Govt all of a sudden decided that they needed to be back in Australia for Xmas,
Of course this was considered good as it helped to curb the comments from Alan Joyce that his airline would go broke.
Did he reinstate all the people who he sacked earlier in the year?
He lay in bed at night with the dollar signs in his eyes.

At no time were those people who were advised to come home from overseas were refused.
What has not been said is that it was going to cost them more due to fact that with the airlines, there werent the bums on seats that they needed for profit so it was going to cost the return traveller more. Many did not want to pay. Remember the dollar signs in Mr Joyces eyes!

Mixed up in all of this are many malingerers who have dual citizen status. They live overseas and pay for nothing in Australia but can stand and blame our government when things go pear shape in England, the USA, India etc, and dont dare mention the thousands of Chinese students and families again with dual citizenship.

So home (second home) they all came. It was no surprise that along with them came the virus. We were blessed that they even bought in new strains according to medical reports.
Our entire hospital, medical staff, security, transport and the general public were once again exposed to the risk of infection and we should ask, did this happen? Yes it did. There was and still exists outbreaks in NSW and Vic with new strains being detected as well in SA and Qld with travellers being placed into hospital after testing positive.

While here I should mention that a large outbreak in NSW all began with a pilot from the USA who ran amok due to lack of any supervisory bubble being enforced or at that time even being in place at the international airport. It was revealed that these groups of airline staff were virtually doing what they wanted.
A bus driver and security people became infected and guess what.. off it went again. According to tracing and reports this outbreak is now traced to further contact in Victoria.

Now the next two paragraphs are important to my point.

Lets look at it from the other side which is the majority of Australian citizens did the right thing and locked down, and being denied visits to family and friends, being denied visits to sick and dying family members, being denied to many businesses and many business owners closing so as to rid our country, Australia, of this virus.
At the beginning of Dec 2020 it appeared that we could all travel with safety from state to state to visit loved ones and friends for Xmas and the holidays.

No, unfortunately this was denied to the majority of genuine Australians who had done the hard yards for most of 2020 with the worst part being many just getting to a destination and then having to turn around a go home.
This is due partly to the poor supervision and control by officials and by the selfish attitude of thousands of overseas travellers.

I know many on here dont like simple reflections and memes but I will say this.

If there was a murderer in your street and you could keep him out by locking the gate to your property would you then go to that gate and stand there and invite him in, or, would you lock the gate?

Unfortunately it is wealth before health in this country with international borders being open.

Regards

Rob

edit spelling

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 2nd of January 2021 02:27:47 PM

Rob Driver · Guru

To add to the above, if we had not locked down internally in this country we would be in the same predicament as is England at this moment.

I consider it lucky that we have states that can issue control measures when in danger or threat and I believe we all should be proud that we as seven different identities employed the necessary control to achieve what we achieved up until Dec 2020.

If the international borders could not be controlled to protect our people then they should be shut, simple as that.

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 2nd of January 2021 12:49:39 PM

msg · Guru

It is wealth before Australia

bgt · Guru

dogbox I'm not suggesting that we have no restrictions on travel. Far from it.

I'm just pointing out that locking everything down is a simplistic approach. Way too many consequence.

And if we have to have lockdowns/border closures then make them consistent so folks know what is going on. What they can and can't do.

Me? I would use the 'hot spot' as the key. If you live, or have been, in a hot spot then certainly apply restrictions. Along with big $$$$ fines. But why penalise all Australians because of pockets of virus and idiots who ignore the rules?
Tell the folks in the vast majority of Qld and NSW, that have never had a case of covid, why they are subject to restrictions. Why folks in Mt Isa can't drive to Broken Hill. Why folks in Broken Hill can't drive to Horsham in Vic. Or Folks in Birdsville can't drive to Mt Isa or the Gold Coast.

Throwing collective hands in the air and yelling "lockdown" is the lazy way of doing things. There are solutions that will work for everyone. But governments seem to want to do the simplistic easy things.

dogbox · Guru

probably because someone could drive from syd/ melb to country centers not knowing if they were positive or not . we cannot be trusted to behave so lines must be drawn.!
think of the people in the riverina who live on one side and work on the other side of the river was their lives upset i'm sure they were, but they got on with it an worked it out.
as far as fines go i wonder how many have been paid ?
we voted for the governments we have if you don't like how they are handling things vote them out next election
i would have thought someone in Mt Isa could drive to Broken Hill , might have trouble getting back ,but that is the risk you take in the present situation

you are starting to sound the same as someone else who use to post on this and other sites under different names!!

Rob Driver · Guru

bgt wrote:
dogbox I'm not suggesting that we have no restrictions on travel. Far from it.

I'm just pointing out that locking everything down is a simplistic approach. Way too many consequence.

And if we have to have lockdowns/border closures then make them consistent so folks know what is going on. What they can and can't do.

Me? I would use the 'hot spot' as the key. If you live, or have been, in a hot spot then certainly apply restrictions. Along with big $$$$ fines. But why penalise all Australians because of pockets of virus and idiots who ignore the rules?
Tell the folks in the vast majority of Qld and NSW, that have never had a case of covid, why they are subject to restrictions. Why folks in Mt Isa can't drive to Broken Hill. Why folks in Broken Hill can't drive to Horsham in Vic. Or Folks in Birdsville can't drive to Mt Isa or the Gold Coast.

Throwing collective hands in the air and yelling "lockdown" is the lazy way of doing things. There are solutions that will work for everyone. But governments seem to want to do the simplistic easy things.

bgt the borders were consistent for one week as they were all open but international travel into this country ruined that.

Your hot spot suggestion has a chance if working but unfortunately there are many who believe they are self entitled and actually dont tell the truth when trying to cross borders. This has been proven on a regular basis. So who makes the decision to trust these people?

I am not sure if you are aware but Birdsville, Mt Isa and the Gold Coast are all in Queensland and to my knowledge there would be no restrictions with travel within the state. Currently it is NSW that prevent travel into and out of areas of the northern suburbs of Sydney. Broken Hill folk are allowed to drive to Adelaide as are the folk from Wentworth.

From how I see it all our state borders would have free and unlimited passage if we get the situation back to how it was at the end of Nov 2020 and then shut the international gate. Not hard at all. NZ did it. Singapore is now restricting entry as well I believe.

Another option is for those that feel they have to come in for good reason and not just because they need to taste mums cooking or celebrate NYE because we party well in Aus, could be placed into isolation and testing off shore and not permitted to travel onto the mainland until our authorities are 100 per cent sure they are free of the virus.

Of course I can hear the screaming how this wont be suitable for cricket players tennis players and their respective entourages.

The main fact we still all consider if for some remote vote gaining reason our govt adopted this approach, is that inevitably it is still medical personal, security, transport and support staff that then are placed at high risk of contracting the virus.

Unfortunately keeping it simple will probably be the only way we may control the virus until there is a proven vaccine.

Regards

Rob

Edit spelling

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 2nd of January 2021 02:26:42 PM

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Saturday 2nd of January 2021 02:28:19 PM

bgt · Guru

Sorry dogbox if I'm making suggestions or asking question that don't suit your view. I'll repeat that it all sounds so simplistic to some. But those same people are not the ones who are affected by actions being taken but the authorities.

Bentaxlebabe I know where those places are. I was trying to make the point that those places are a long way from any 'hot spot' yet are subject to the same rules.

I'll ask one more question then I'll give up.
If there is a vaccine and if it's not compulsory then how does anyone suggest we live our lives given that the virus will be around for much longer than any of us? Do we keep shutting everything down every time there is any sort of outbreak?

Or do we stop asking questions and all act like sheep?

dogbox · Guru

bgt wrote:

Sorry dogbox if I'm making suggestions or asking question that don't suit your view. I'll repeat that it all sounds so simplistic to some. But those same people are not the ones who are affected by actions being taken but the authorities.

Bentaxlebabe I know where those places are. I was trying to make the point that those places are a long way from any 'hot spot' yet are subject to the same rules.

I'll ask one more question then I'll give up.

If there is a vaccine and if it's not compulsory then how does anyone suggest we live our lives given that the virus will be around for much longer than any of us? Do we keep shutting everything down every time there is any sort of outbreak?

Or do we stop asking questions and all act like sheep?

my view would be consistent with obey the rules whether i like them or not .

people still do not get the flu jab and some die because of it for one reason or another

until we have a vaccine that works, maybe if we obey the rules (compared to some countries they are not that restrictive at the moment )
remember melbourne in lockdown that was lockdown! right down to the suburb you lived in.
it worked for a while till we got complacent, an let international travelers run their own show
i hate to get personal you are entitled to your point of view but did not you call someone selfish because their point of view is different to yours, because of your health problems you seem to think you should have some sort of exemption as closed boarders (requiring quarantine) restrict your life style an your treatment

if the vaccine is successful we will know in the near future as the countries that are in dire straights have rushed the emergency distribution of it. then it will be used here any side effects or down side should be sorted out by then .
we have been dealing with this for 9 months already another 2-3 months should see us doing the lap again with a bit of luck

Rob Driver · Guru

dogbox wrote:
bgt wrote:

Sorry dogbox if I'm making suggestions or asking question that don't suit your view. I'll repeat that it all sounds so simplistic to some. But those same people are not the ones who are affected by actions being taken but the authorities.

Bentaxlebabe I know where those places are. I was trying to make the point that those places are a long way from any 'hot spot' yet are subject to the same rules.

I'll ask one more question then I'll give up.

If there is a vaccine and if it's not compulsory then how does anyone suggest we live our lives given that the virus will be around for much longer than any of us? Do we keep shutting everything down every time there is any sort of outbreak?

Or do we stop asking questions and all act like sheep?

my view would be consistent with obey the rules whether i like them or not .

people still do not get the flu jab and some die because of it for one reason or another

until we have a vaccine that works, maybe if we obey the rules (compared to some countries they are not that restrictive at the moment )
remember melbourne in lockdown that was lockdown! right down to the suburb you lived in.
it worked for a while till we got complacent, an let international travelers run their own show
i hate to get personal you are entitled to your point of view but did not you call someone selfish because their point of view is different to yours, because of your health problems you seem to think you should have some sort of exemption as closed boarders (requiring quarantine) restrict your life style an your treatment

if the vaccine is successful we will know in the near future as the countries that are in dire straights have rushed the emergency distribution of it. then it will be used here any side effects or down side should be sorted out by then .
we have been dealing with this for 9 months already another 2-3 months should see us doing the lap again with a bit of luck

X 2 from me dogbox.

bgt, I am glad you cleared that up re the towns mentioned are all currently in Qld.

Have I mentioned anything in my posts above that you dont agree with?

Regards

Rob

Whenarewethere · Guru

The vaccine will only stop you getting as sick. It doesn't do anything to stop community transmission.

Rob Driver · Guru

Did anyone notice on the news services tonight that a couple fled the police in Canberra from a flight from NSW and drove to Victoria then back to NSW where they were arrested in Goulburn.
With this type of deception can we ever keep border isolation simple....I dont think so.
So, how many people did they come into contact with...remember they started this illegal jaunt on a domestic aircraft.

To quote another on here ...sheesh!!

Regards

Rob

Rob Driver · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
The vaccine will only stop you getting as sick. It doesn't do anything to stop community transmission.

While I respect your input most of the time could you please give our members a link from medical authorities indicating that anyone who may avoid this vile disease through vaccination will then remain contagious.

Just the link will be fine as this topic is generally about border closures.

Regards

Rob