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Post Info TOPIC: Weigh note provided by a Caravan / RV Dealer
If buying a new van from a dealer would you expect and request a weigh note indicating the actual tare to eastablish he true payload weight. [24 vote(s)]

Yes, this should be mandatory
83.3%
No, I dont care what weight my van is
12.5%
I will get advice after the purchase from forum experts
4.2%


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RE: Weigh note provided by a Caravan / RV Dealer


HandyWalter wrote:

The difficulty I had was that I bought my van 2nd hand. There was a weigh bridge statement in all the paperwork, instructions, warranty cards that the previous owner passed onto me but he had no idea whether the weight shown, were from the manufacturer or the dealer. The van came with "extras" fitted (heater greywater tank etc). So I rang the dealer from whom he purchased the van originally (van was only 6 months old). I was told the documentation was as the van left the factory, not the dealer. So I went and got the van weighed. It weighed (on its own) (is this the "new" tare everybody is talking about) exactly 195kgs more than the plated Tare (water tanks now full. gas bottles attached).. As the van had 400kg load I just now knew I had 205kg of stuff I could load on.

Since that time I have removed items (doors and shower screens) and added items extra tank, my items etc and had made roughly an estimate of where I stood on weights.

On my last trip away I went past the Seymour weighbridge, no truck there and decided just to weigh the van on its own. It was 5kg under its ATM (phew) This was all loaded up with food, water, grog, etc. I had thought I still had room for at least another couple of slabs of beer but luckily I did not.

The end of this "rant" is just to explain that the best way to know your limits its just load the van up and get it weighed. Every so often just take it over the weighbridge to confirm it is still within spec.

The other thing I would note is that my van is nowhere near the rated capacity of my car, so I have no need to worry about axle loads etc. The issue for most caravanners is I think when they start out with vans that weigh in excess of 3T when loaded up, as this seems to be the point that weights on various components of the tow tug are starting to reach or exceed their load limits when everything is taken into account.

Also in my travels some people get confused with GCM. They think because they bought a van less than the max towing rate of the car (typically 3500kg) they think as long as the car and van are below that GCM weight they can load the vehicle up to that figure. But that is another story!!! and another set of weights to explain.


Great post Walter,and good to see you being so responsible with your weights.Well done! The one thing I would suggest is that you weigh your van's axle group while the van is connected to the car,with only the van wheels on the weighbridge.Because you already know your ATM,you will now be able calculate your towball weight,but you also will be able to check that you are within your van's axle group rated capacity.Your last paragraph points out a common misconception,but,as you say,that's another story! Cheers



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-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 12th of January 2021 10:45:46 AM

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Yobarr Exceeding my rear axle weight would be impossible. As the van only weighs 2.6T, and the car only has myself and partner plus a beer fridge, it is well within the limits. That is why I bought the vehicle I did. I wanted to be able to tow the size van I have with spare capacity, be comfortable on long trips and be one of the most economical vehicles for that purpose. I did buy a LC 76 Wagon with auto at the same time with the view to do the outback trips as I was concerned about LR reliability. But two short trips in it and I was convinced it is one of the most uncomfortable, expensive, thirsty and overrated vehicles there is on the market. My son now owns it and with younger bones he can tolerate the bone jarring ride far better than me.

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HandyWalter wrote:

Yobarr Exceeding my rear axle weight would be impossible. As the van only weighs 2.6T, and the car only has myself and partner plus a beer fridge, it is well within the limits. That is why I bought the vehicle I did. I wanted to be able to tow the size van I have with spare capacity, be comfortable on long trips and be one of the most economical vehicles for that purpose. I did buy a LC 76 Wagon with auto at the same time with the view to do the outback trips as I was concerned about LR reliability. But two short trips in it and I was convinced it is one of the most uncomfortable, expensive, thirsty and overrated vehicles there is on the market. My son now owns it and with younger bones he can tolerate the bone jarring ride far better than me.


Hi Walter...you seem somewhat confused,as I did not discuss your car's rear axle capacity? All I suggested was that you weigh your VAN'S axle group to ensure that it was within the van's axle group rating.I am pleased that you are happy with your car,and responsible enough to tow only 2600kg with it.Now to your comments about the LC76.Grouping this lightweight with an LC79,which I suspect you are doing,is like comparing chalk with cheese.Apart from having a low GVM of just over 3000kg,it also has a ridiculously SHORT wheelbase of only 2730mm.....of course it will ride rough! And it never was designed to impress city folk,being more at home in the outback.Fuel economy.........I note that your LC76 had an automatic transmission,so I can only surmise that you had this installed,at a cost of over $20k? Perhaps this has a negative influence on fuel consumption? Comfort....the VDJ range of Cruisers never has been noted for their comfort,but they have chassis,diffs,bearings,clutches, engines,steering and suspension that are built for durability.These cars will still be towing heavy loads long after lesser cars have died.As an aside,at 6800kg GCM,legal on all axles,I get 5.4km/litre or 15mpg.....good enough for me! Hope this has cleared up any misunderstandings? Cheers.



-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 13th of January 2021 01:16:31 PM

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yobarr wrote:

Hi Walter...you seem somewhat confused,as I did not discuss your car's rear axle capacity? All I suggested was that you weigh your VAN'S axle group to ensure that it was within the van's axle group rating.I am pleased that you are happy with your car,and responsible enough to tow only 2600kg with it.Now to your comments about the LC76.Grouping this lightweight with an LC79,which I suspect you are doing,is like comparing chalk with cheese.Apart from having a low GVM of just over 3000kg,it also has a ridiculously SHORT wheelbase of only 2730mm.....of course it will ride rough! And it never was designed to impress city folk,being more at home in the outback.Fuel economy.........I note that your LC76 had an automatic transmission,so I can only surmise that you had this installed,at a cost of over $20k? Perhaps this has a negative influence on fuel consumption? Comfort....the VDJ range of Cruisers never has been noted for their comfort,but they have chassis,diffs,bearings,clutches, engines,steering and suspension that are built for durability.These cars will still be towing heavy loads long after lesser cars have died.As an aside,at 6800kg GCM,legal on all axles,I get 5.4km/litre or 15mpg.....good enough for me! Hope this has cleared up any misunderstandings? Cheers.



-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 13th of January 2021 01:16:31 PM

 

Yes sorry Yobarr wrong axle group. The van axle group is rated to 2.8t and the van only weighed 2595 irt was well within spec. I was comparing the LC 76 to the Disco not the LC 79. The auto in the 76 was an after market option but before delivery. It comes straight out of a LC 200. My 76 was the new one with the slightly higher 5th gear when bought (ordered) but the auto reduces revs by about 300 at 100pkh on that. It is claimed to make the car more economical especially on long trips. I cannot remember exactly what i got on the LC , but I think it was about 17/100kms. (this equates to your 18/100) What I get in the Disco ranges from 12/100 at 80 kph to 14.5 at 100-110kph when towing. Both cars cost the same by the time I threw away the tyres and rims on the Disco to get better sidewall on tyres. I just seemed to think the LC felt small (narrow) and top heavy, lurching around corners etc. I see so many GN's driving them thats why I bought it. Obviously they have a stronger body than me. I have to put up with LR baiting comments, but so far (180,000ks) I have had nothing go wrong and I can easily do 1000kms in a day, pull up and not feel tired, stressed or in aches and pain. In the LC the best I could do was about 500kms and by then I was exhausted.


 



-- Edited by HandyWalter on Tuesday 19th of January 2021 03:15:24 PM

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bentaxlebabe wrote:
montie wrote:
bentaxlebabe wrote:

Montie, you seem to miss the point.

We are generally all credited with knowing what a litre of water weighs and most gas bottles hold approx 9kg of gas but what about any other accessories that are fitted or supplied.
Surely I dont have to list the hundreds of options and accessories that potentially could be fitted by a dealer prior to Handover.

Montie, all these items add weight to the tare so it could only be fair to the new owner that he is aware of this increase in tare and thus a decrease in his payload and the new revised tare on the weigh note which will allow the new owner to calculate his payload.

Anything else is just a guess.

The consumer should not be classed as a non believer as the increase in tare weight is real.

Might I suggest that overlooking this increased tare weight is more common than we might realise and it certainly makes the van or Rv
appear to be more suitable to a new purchasers needs than what it is in real life. This is a great advantage to a dealer who choses to mislead their customer by using the manufacturers tare weight as opposed to the correct tare on delivery.

If the CIA doesnt support dealer weighing after fitting extras and before delivery or handover then maybe they dont have the consumers interest at heart but obviously are well supported by the dealers.

When I bought my van the dealer supplied the updated weigh note and at handover we were sat down and explained the difference that this will make to what we can legally load for travel.
My dealer did this as a part of their policy on delivery and although they were aware of our transport background they still insisted on explaining this to me.
This is a responsible action not something that should be left to guesswork for the new owner.

Try selling a semi trailer or any piece of transport equipment and misquote the tare weight.
You would not last 5 minutes in court.

Anyway I will leave it up to any potential buyer as to wether they chose a dealer that is open and upfront when it becomes to true tare weight and payload as opposed to one who tells their customers to ignore the tare on the plate but just go away and work it out for themselves.

Regards

Rob


 Rob,

You are not reading my posts.

I repeat, The vast majority of dealers have options and extras fitted by the manufacturer so that they are included in the plated tare and covered by the factory warranty.

The reality here is that many non factory options and extras are fitted by the owner after delivery....but I guess that's the dealers fault as wellblankstare.


 

Caravan RV dealers have spare parts and show rooms full of accessories. Your dealership has one

Regards

Rob


 Rob,

Our dealership does not have one.

You need to get your facts right before posting.



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bentaxlebabe wrote:



We are generally all credited with knowing what a litre of water weighs and most gas bottles hold approx 9kg of gas but what about any other accessories that are fitted or supplied.
Surely I dont have to list the hundreds of options and accessories that potentially could be fitted by a dealer prior to Handover.

Montie, all these items add weight to the tare so it could only be fair to the new owner that he is aware of this increase in tare and thus a decrease in his payload and the new revised tare on the weigh note which will allow the new owner to calculate his payload.


 This is a great advantage to a dealer who choses to mislead their customer by using the manufacturers tare weight as opposed to the correct tare on delivery.

When I bought my van the dealer supplied the updated weigh note and at handover we were sat down and explained the difference that this will make to what we can legally load for travel.

Regards

Rob

Hi Rob for someone who has links to the transport industry, surely you would understand the difference between Tare and Kerb weights.

Build a bridge and get over it, Tare weight can never alter, but the Kerb weight can. Perhaps if you want a hobby horse to ride then push for sensible load availability rather than a number that some manufactures use depending if its single or dual axle.



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I think it should be simple. Remember if you are buying a van for the first time t here can be information overload and a hell of a lot of jargon to get you head around.

Let's say Tom buys a van with a tare of 2000kg
The ATM is 2500kg so 500kg load capacity.

When Tom the new buyer picks up the new van the dealer should simply say:
After adding this and that as you requested your load carrying capacity has been reduced by 100kg, so you can now only put 400kg in the van and for example this includes gas, water clothing and food, etc.

We recommend that once you have the van loaded weigh it. This it how to weigh it correctly. And explain in lay terms.
Here is where you can find weigh bridges, etc.


Should a new weigh bridge ticket be required? That would be great, but a weight of all the additional gear should be available on the documents that comes with it. Dealer would have a very good idea of weight added. 10kg variation isn't going to matter in real life.

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Gross payload means just that.

The van is weighed empty at the factory and that measured weight when subtracted from the ATM gives you the gross payload.

Any first grade student can surely figure it out from there especially when the dealer explains it to you.

It's not rocket science!



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