Pension and nursing home fees

the rocket · Guru

Pension and nursing home fees

bgt · Guru

Find a nursing home that you are considering. Ask them for their fees and structures. They all vary. They should be able to answer most of your questions. Other wise try your accountant.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

The first thing you need to do is to contact My Aged Care and arrange an assessment.
www.myagedcare.gov.au/
Cheers,
Peter

Wanda · Guru

You could try "My Age Care" as a starter, as well as any particular nursing home you have in mind. They all are priced very different but will be able to advise you on the other issues as well. Leave the Accountant out of it as they will only charge you!
cheers
Ian

blissonwheels · Senior Member

Gooday,

To the best of my knowledge they assess all your assets including your family home, then if one (1) of a couple continues to reside in the Home then that is not taken into consideration for the Residential Bond/Deposit required.

However you would need to check with Centrelink just what the Maximum Assets is allowed to not have to pay a Bond and let the Government pay your accommodation, again to the best of my Knowledge they will then take 85% of your eligible Pension for the person going into care if receiving one.

bgt · Guru

Your account may cost money. But in the long run bypassing your accountant may cost you a lot lot more. In my experience advise on forums is just opinions. Go to your accountant. Your accountant can advise on assets etc before you start to look at facilities and costs. Every person has different circumstances. Be wary of those who think they know your circumstances.

Wanda · Guru

Seriously, bgt your accontant is not the go to on this. There are government run departments that specialise in this and provide free help, after all they make the assessments, not your accountant.

Rocket, I wou;d have thought the seniors help hotline could/would have put you in contact with who to see??
Want your tax done, go to your accountant.
Ian

-- Edited by Wanda on Friday 5th of February 2021 02:19:39 PM

-- Edited by Wanda on Friday 5th of February 2021 02:21:15 PM

boab · Senior Member

I dont have an accountant so i wonder who i could see

bgt · Guru

Wanda my point with the accountant is to arrange your assets so that you can maximise your entitlements. You may be able to legally shift assets or use joint names etc. This is something you need to do way before you start talking to any government organization. Trust me. Your accountant is the best person to arrange your assets in your best interest. I'm not talking about the assessment. It's the step before the assessment.

If you don't have an accountant any competent accountant can do the same job.

msg · Guru

bgt wrote:
Your account may cost money. But in the long run bypassing your accountant may cost you a lot lot more. In my experience advise on forums is just opinions. Go to your accountant. Your accountant can advise on assets etc before you start to look at facilities and costs. Every person has different circumstances. Be wary of those who think they know your circumstances.

I know nothing of such matters.

Your friendly accountant.

Whenarewethere · Guru

They want to know all your assets. But all your furniture & contents are what you would get at a all things must go garage sale. Not much!

Tony Bev · Guru

I can only speak of my own experience

Father in law had Alzheimer's disease, and had no other options except to go into a nursing home

He was an ex WW11 soldier, so had (I think it was called a gold pass), pension card, he was a battler, so not rich

His old age pension paid for the nursing home, and he was given just a very few dollars, to buy toothbrush etc

They owned their own modest home, and dear old mother in law, kept it

She only got her own pension, and nothing from father in law pension

When father in law died, mother in law got some extra benefits as a (I think it is called), war widows pension

As others have said, find out who you go to, in your area, as everyone has different circumstances

I sincerely hope that you and your hubby are well Rocket, I once met you at Greens Lake, some years ago

bgt · Guru

Keep in mind your assets will be used to asses your payments and government contributions. Some homes will demand a guarantee of payment so they will need an asset such as your home as security. Hence the very important need to arrange your assets. Every case is different. In my experience gov departments read from a rule book. They aren't paid to sort individual's cases.

Izabarack · Guru

the rocket wrote:
Hi everyone, for the gov to pay all your nursing home fees, ...........

Govt funded Aged Care places are few and difficult to access purely because of demand. There were only 15 Funded places in the 150 bed facility my Mother was in. First step is to ensure you are assessed for eligibility for residential Aged Care. In Qld, that is done by an Aged Care Assessment team. Health Dept is the first port of call in Qld to arrange that. Assessment will be for eligibility for Low Care or High Care. This level assessment effects costs going in, for example, whether a bond is needed or not. Next step is to put your name on a waiting list and wait for someone in the funded beds to die, that's how a funded bed/place becomes available. If you get to the top of the list and are not ready to go in, you refuse the offer and the next person on their list gets the placement. If already on a Commonwealth Health care card, entry to a Govt Funded place is free (asset test is already done) assuming only one person of the home owning couple is going into care. If the remaining person of a home owning couple gets a place, a bond will be required if going into Low Care. How the bond is handled during care and after care ceases depends on the facility. Once in, 85% of your pension is paid to the Facility or Aged Care home, you get the rest to spend on whatever you want.

If you are currently finding out about the likelihood of Aged Care, act now to get assessed and put your name down at at a chosen facility.

-- Edited by Izabarack on Friday 5th of February 2021 05:55:38 PM

Tony LEE · Guru

Want your tax done, go to H & R Block

TheHeaths · Guru

Good advice Iza, especially the point about the very low numbers of subsidised places now Aged Care Homes have become private businesses.

If looking at non subsidised rooms, the cost can be very confronting. In my Mums case, her room, in a regional nursing home in SA cost a $350k bond. Dad paid 1/2 in cash, and then had to pay the equivalent of the income the home would have got on the other half, as a weekly accomodation bond fee, above Mums normal care cost fee. In metro Adelaide, rooms range up to and beyond (I assume) of $450k.

The good thing is that unlike the previous system, where the home kept a percentage of the lower bond when the room was vacated, now the full bond must be refunded when the room is vacated.

the rocket · Guru

Thanks everyone . Very helpful.
thanks everyone. I love this forum And the people in it. Cheers. rocket

-- Edited by the rocket on Friday 5th of February 2021 09:21:57 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
If looking at non subsidised rooms, the cost can be very confronting. In my Mums case, her room, in a regional nursing home in SA cost a $350k bond. Dad paid 1/2 in cash, and then had to pay the equivalent of the income the home would have got on the other half, as a weekly accomodation bond fee, above Mums normal care cost fee. In metro Adelaide, rooms range up to and beyond (I assume) of $450k.

The good thing is that unlike the previous system, where the home kept a percentage of the lower bond when the room was vacated, now the full bond must be refunded when the room is vacated.

There are 2 separate costs to access a nursing home.

1. The cost of the care. This is set by the government and is established following an assessment of income and assets by MyAgedCare. The nursing home collects it but have no say in the amount. The nursing home can not and will not tell you what this is because they do not know, so no point in asking them.

2. The cost of the accommodation. This is the bond charged by the nursing home. I recently put a friend into a nursing home and the bond was $600,000. Other rooms in the same facility were less, depending on room size, view etc. Other homes can be a lot less or a lot more. If you do not pay all of this bond up front (while you wait to sell the house, for instance), there will be interest charged on the outstanding balance. The interest rate is set by the government. It is currently about 5% from memory. If the client dies or leaves the nursing home for any reason (including to go to a different nursing home), 100% of that bond is refundable, but no interest is accrued.

Cheers,

Peter

the rocket · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
If looking at non subsidised rooms, the cost can be very confronting. In my Mums case, her room, in a regional nursing home in SA cost a $350k bond. Dad paid 1/2 in cash, and then had to pay the equivalent of the income the home would have got on the other half, as a weekly accomodation bond fee, above Mums normal care cost fee. In metro Adelaide, rooms range up to and beyond (I assume) of $450k.

The good thing is that unlike the previous system, where the home kept a percentage of the lower bond when the room was vacated, now the full bond must be refunded when the room is vacated.
There are 2 separate costs to access a nursing home.
1. The cost of the care. This is set by the government and is established following an assessment of income and assets by MyAgedCare. The nursing home collects it but have no say in the amount. The nursing home can not and will not tell you what this is because they do not know, so no point in asking them.
2. The cost of the accommodation. This is the bond charged by the nursing home. I recently put a friend into a nursing home and the bond was $600,000. Other rooms in the same facility were less, depending on room size, view etc. Other homes can be a lot less or a lot more. If you do not pay all of this bond up front (while you wait to sell the house, for instance), there will be interest charged on the outstanding balance. The interest rate is set by the government. It is currently about 5% from memory. If the client dies or leaves the nursing home for any reason (including to go to a different nursing home), 100% of that bond is refundable, but no interest is accrued.
Cheers,
Peter

Thanks for that peter. One thing i do not understand is if they give back 100% why do they want it in the first place?

TheHeaths · Guru

They invest the money and take the earnings.

That is why when Dad paid a partial (50%) bond, he was also required to pay the lost income on the remaining portion of the bond to the company that owned the home.

Prior to this system, when my MiL was in a home, the bond was much lower (135k) but the company was allowed to keep about $5k for each of the first 5 years she was in there. After that, the remainder had to be refunded.

The accomodation bond effectively is a capital charge for the provision and upkeep of the facilities.

the rocket · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
They invest the money and take the earnings.

That is why when Dad paid a partial (50%) bond, he was also required to pay the lost income on the remaining portion of the bond to the company that owned the home.

Prior to this system, when my MiL was in a home, the bond was much lower (135k) but the company was allowed to keep about $5k for each of the first 5 years she was in there. After that, the remainder had to be refunded.

The accomodation bond effectively is a capital charge for the provision and upkeep of the facilities.

Thanks. do u still need to pay a bond if the other half still lives in family home

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Are you chucking Strop in one or is he chucking you in one rocket confuse biggrin

TheHeaths · Guru

If it is assessed that a bond is payable, that is your partner doesnt qualify for a subsidised spot, yes you do.

My Dad stayed in his home, which is why he could only pay 1/2 of the bond, and had to pay the additional accomodation fee for Mums room.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 6th of February 2021 04:57:18 PM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

The bond is not "assessed". How much the bond is is entirely up to the home. Everyone pays the same for the same room. There are no subsidies on the bond in commercial nursing homes, so you must choose one that you can afford.
Cheers,
Peter

JeffRae · Guru

Don't assume the "bond" is not negotiable.

TheHeaths · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
The bond is not "assessed". How much the bond is is entirely up to the home. Everyone pays the same for the same room. There are no subsidies on the bond in commercial nursing homes, so you must choose one that you can afford.
Cheers,
Peter

The assessment I referred to is that of the persons assets or income to see if they are eligible for a subsidised room, not on the amount of bond payable.

bgt · Guru

Just a word of caution. A friend of mine moved out of their shared accommodation after her husband passed away. It took 3 and a half years to get the bond returned. The catch in the contract was that the bond would only be returned when they found a new tenant. They were in no hurry to find the new tenant. In the mean time they 'milked' the bond for maintenance fees. Legal action eventually had the bond returned. There are some shonky deals out there.

Wanda · Guru

bgt, I "think" I am correct in saying that the above sounds like the old system, I am pretty sure laws have all changed in the last few years to prevent this from happening. As I said I maybe wrong!
In our case we moved my mother from one indepedent living home to another, differnet companies, the bond was refunded within 2 days.
regards
Ian

bgt · Guru

Wanda the couple moved into a large complex on the Gold Coast in 2010. Husband died in 2012. For a year they danced around the wife and never gave a straight answer. Then we engaged a lawyer. That took a total of 3+ years. I was her POA and executor of her will. The paper work and tricks they got up to were beyond belief. Lawyer sent a 'fake' client around and inquired about any vacancies. They said there were none. Yet my friend had moved out 2 years beforehand and the unit was empty. They were charging for cleaning, maintenance etc for an unoccupied room. It was run by one of Qlds largest retirement companies. I wont mention names be cause I can't afford to be sued.

Yes it's my understanding that there have been rule changes. Many retirement homes are just money making businesses. Few are actually there to help the aged.

I wouldn't trust any of them. Make sure you get a good lawyer to explain the contract to you.

Just as an aside. I would be happy to pay more taxes if the federal government was to finance way more public sector retirement homes. I strongly believe in capitalism and a free economy. But the aged are vulnerable and we need to take care of them the best we can.

bilbo · Senior Member

BGT says

Just a word of caution. A friend of mine moved out of their shared accommodation after her husband passed away. It took 3 and a half years to get the bond returned. The catch in the contract was that the bond would only be returned when they found a new tenant. They were in no hurry to find the new tenant. In the mean time they 'milked' the bond for maintenance fees. Legal action eventually had the bond returned. There are some shonky deals out there.

Are you referring to a

retirement home (independant living)

or

nursing home (fulltime care)

???

cheers Bilbo