NSW has committed to a 20 megawatt battery beside the Hume dam, where Murray River flows 24/7, albeit in vastly different flows. Apparently the existing Hydro scheme will keep the battery charged for emergencies, ie when the sun don't shine (sometimes)and the wind don't blow(frequently), around here. I tried to find out how long this would power the Albury area, say 6000 houses, to keep it simple, (bugger industry) for the $30 million or so. Can anyone help?

bgt wrote:

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One of the pro renewable celebrities has had his say on the ABC. Bill Gates. "He said that as solar and wind were intermittent and not reliable year-round, nuclear power was a practical option. "We either need a miracle invention to make batteries that are 20 times cheaper, so you can do that seasonal storage, so when you get a few weeks where [solar and wind] sources aren't there, you still can keep people warm," "he said. Link https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-16/bill-gates-zero-emissions-hardest-thing-humanitys-done/13156306 So it's now nuclear. Slowly the penny is dropping!! While I don't agree 100% with Mr gates there is enough there in his interview to tell you that even he has seen the practical side of the debate.

-- Edited by bgt on Tuesday 16th of February 2021 08:13:43 PM

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 He is interesting video with Bill Gates and renewables ,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xe3BWPsBTU&t=2s

I did read, (a few years ago now) that cost wise, Nuclear Fission cost more overall than any other form of energy, and is dying a natural death
It appears that the bean counters, can not justify any more new Nuclear Fission power stations, being built

As Dorian has already pointed out, Nuclear Fusion would be the utopia we are all looking for, but at the moment it is (from what I read) unachievable

Green Hydrogen does sound feasible, for the future

As Bill Gates had pointed out in his article, we will require breakthroughs in battery technology
There are some (on the drawing board/in laboratory), batteries which sound very promising, but are as yet, untried

I think that the bottom line of Bill Gates article, was that he was saying, until the Governments of the world agree to zero emissions, it will not be achievable

I seem to recall reading (many years ago), that there was no incentive to invent a better battery, as there was no market for it

Within the last few years, there has been a lot of money poured into battery technology, as there is now a market for them

WhenandWhere has mixed up power and energy. It is easy to do. Power is 20000 kW, not kWh. Craig1 has asked how long and how many houses. There isn't enough information in the statement as to the actual capacity of the battery (kWh), so we cannot comment, but looking at Adelaide's Elon Musk battery, when it was commissioned, it was the largest battery installation in the world. It is 100 Mw, and it can hold up the grid at that output for 20 minutes, which is enough for the operators to get other machinery (typically gas turbines - greenhouse gas emitting at that) on line to replace the generators which failed. Now, to put things further into perspective, the NSW grid demand can be as high as 35000 MW, so 20 MW is a trickle into the bucket in the overall scheme of things. I would assume that this battery could supply 20 MW for maybe 20 minutes, 1 hour maximum.

At Hume dam, there is already a hydro turbine installed . It has 30 MW capacity and can be brought on-line within about a minute or so, so the 20 MW battery would probably cover most of the load which the Hydro turbine was supplying. Note that the whole of the Albury area is connected to the grid and therefore a loss of the hydro turbine would not be felt by the overall grid - the loss would easily be taken up by generators elsewhere.

As for Craig1's question, 20 MW (20000 kw) would supply about 6000 homes - each home taking about 3kW on average. 

 

To give you some idea as to capacities, Snowy 2.0 ( a pumped storage scheme) will produce 2000 MW and theoretically can do that for at least 1 week. This scheme is designed to provide backup for the main grid which connects SE Qld, NSW, Vic, SA and Tas. This scheme will eventually be charged up (the water pumped up to the upper reservoir) using renewable energy, but for the next 10 or 20 years it will require coal fired energy to pump the water.

-- Edited by erad on Wednesday 17th of February 2021 03:07:22 PM

When we turn on our instantaneous electric hot water it uses 20kW, but we only use 8kWh per 24 hours.

Looking at my 4 x 26AH batteries for my fridge at 15AH per 24hours. 

12v x 104AH = 1.248kWh

1.248kWh / 0.18kWh = 6.93 days

So I can run the fridge for 2 days to 30% discharge.

On the rare occasion it is crap weather the fridge can go a week.

 

Or at a high current the 4 batteries can run for 5 minutes at 360amps (4.32kW)

& nuclear power was shut down due to cooling freezing.

The reality is that renewables are now putting downward pressure on energy prices and that will continue.
The costs and lead time for nuclear will prohibit it from happening. A new solar farm can begin construction next week and thousands of new domestic ones are being completed every day.
A new solar farm has been approved for the Barkley Tableland that will supply power to Singapore.
Australia will become a major exporter of energy. It will all be renewable.
Cheers,
Peter

No real downward prices here. More like downward prices on the power i export (currently 10c/Kw) Most of the contracts are smoke & mirrors, shuffled around to maximise what you actualy pay the power provider.

The day they build wind towers and solar farms in the cities I may think about the whole issue more. Oh 'not in my backyard'!

It's a case of double standards. The greens are all for protecting our environment yet have no issues with destroying it with towers and panels.

End of story.

Lets line up all the ducks, kill off the Coal fired generation, kill off the coal mining, kill off diesel and petrol powerd cars and trucks, that kills off the oil reletated jobs.

Keep building solar farms and wind farms, add more big batteries after they are built Utopia 100% renewables

So where do all those people work who's industry is shut down, service stations closed, and how do those who cannot afford to put solar on their home or rent pay their power bills.

-- Edited by Gundog on Tuesday 23rd of February 2021 12:26:46 PM

DeBe wrote:

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No real downward prices here. More like downward prices on the power i export (currently 10c/Kw) Most of the contracts are smoke & mirrors, shuffled around to maximise what you actualy pay the power provider.

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Hi Daryl...whilst I am not familiar with the SA power companies' offerings,a quick Google search found FIT (Feed in tariffs) of 15 cents,16 cents,17 cents,19 cents and 21 cents,so it may be well worth checking your power plans. Cheers.

Whenarewethere wrote:

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Wind farms & solar farms are best build next to existing transmission infrastructure where it is easiest to feed in.

The Hunter Valley would be a good place & while at it the coal industry can fill in the pits with power station ash mountains.

Then revegetate the Hunter dust bowl which has twice the small particle pollution of Sydney.

All problems solved. Easy.

We will also save money not having replace the locomotives, carriages, rails & sleepers, & locomotive  carriage tyres (steel tyres for those that don't know). Also a hugh saving in water that the coal industry uses.

 

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 The best place for solar and wind is at or near where the energy is consumed.

Like on your own roof, like ours (and our motorhome) and like 2 million other Australian homes (and growing very fast).  Our total annual power bill is about ZERO and has been since we installed 5kW of PV on our house 5 years ago. And we don't get any fancy feed in tariff either. Does not matter as most of the benefit comes from not buying much power from the grid. When we are at home, 90% of our power consumption comes from our own solar. When we go on a trip, the money just dribbles into our bank account. That is a better investment than any other that you will find.

How much land area is required to provide 100% of the energy required for the whole country?

How much solar do we need to power Australia? - Voltio

An area about 10% larger than Canberra.

And most of that will be in the cities.

To those who seem to be against the renewables revolution, I have one question. What is your viable alternative?

What will all the people do who loose their jobs? The same thing as all those red flag wavers did who walked in front of cars. Plant trees on those deserts created by energy mining? Make solar panels? Be a part of a whole new range of industries created by the availability of cheap power - like make steel in Australia instead of exporting it to China. 

The industrial revolution in England created millions of jobs and improved everyone's quality of living. That revolution happened for ONE reason - cheap energy from coal. We will see another industrial revolution as a direct result of MUCH cheaper energy from renewables.

Renewables now are just like mobile phones 20 years ago. Calls were VERY expensive and don't even think about calling overseas. Now, you pay a monthly fee and the calls are free. They don't care how many you make. Renewable energy will be almost the same. Use it today. If you don't use it, it will be gone, but tomorrow there will be a new lot that won't cost anything more. It is RENEWABLE. 

Cheers,

Peter 

 

Input can be anywhere as you only loose about 2% per 1000km. We could put input on the other side of the country & only loose 8%. 

Spread input around the country so we have a greater chance of power from somewhere when weather is not so favorable.

We could have an inter-connector with New Zealand. They supply us in the morning & we supply them in the evening. Only about 5% loss from our east coast, 13% from our west coast.