Sway control

boab · Senior Member

Sway control

travelyounger · Guru

RussandSandy wrote:
Hi to All
Looking at fitting sway control to our caravan -- can any one recommend or otherwise a product - EAZ lift screw on sway control

Cheers
Russ

Hi

There are two main anti sway controls used

ESC electronic sway control

DSC Dexter sway control

Both systems work in the same principle but dexter is more suited in off road conditions.

Both these systems will brake to either side of vans brakes when a certain amount of sway is detected of course regular maintenance is required to ensure they will operate when or if needed

Forget sway bars they will do little or nothing if you get up a sway but they will give you a smother ride on those outback highways and they will transfer some weight from your rear axle to your front axle depending on how tight you tension them

Cheers

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

I was towing my Jayco 17' toppop van behind my VW Touareg coming back from QLD. We were very comfortably traveling at 100kph trying to get home before dark. This was during the stupid stipulation that one had to travel home within 24 hours.

A Blue Tongue ran across the road and contrary to all logic, my reflexes set in and I tried to dodge it. We did miss the Blue Tongue but we ended up on the other side of the road, the ACC switched off and everything instantly settled. I don't know if it was the car's ABS, ESC, Anti-collision features or the van's ECS but they worked beautifully and I'm very happy that the did. I swore that the next Blue Tongue is gonna cop it.

kgarnett · Senior Member

Car and caravan insurance is not necessary, but nice to have in the case of some unforeseen and unanticipated incident.
I believe these electronic sway control devices fall into the same category

montie · Guru

I think we might be back to basics here...tug/van weight ratio and ball weight.

Gorn · Newbie

dorian wrote:

Mike Harding wrote:
How can you tell if a sway control system is working?
I'm sure they do self tests and a little green LED lights or something but how can you confirm it actually *detects* sway and applies the brakes?

That would make an interesting project.

Hi Dorian and others.

Just wondering if anyone has found any more info on this - i.e. how do you actually know if it is working or going to work when needed? How do you test it?

Last trip has a few episodes of sway with 2 major episodes of sway with side wind and truck wind combined. approx 90km/hr on highway drive.

Towing a new 20ft van (just under 2700GVM at the time with Colorado tow vehicle with all new upgraded suspension approx GVM 2950). We were traveling with all tanks empty.

We have the Dexter DSC fitted and I am certain it did not engage on the first sway and felt one possible tug on the brakes on the second. Both episodes were about 5 seconds long and van moved what seemed a significant amount each way a number of times although did not hit the truck that was overtaking. I did not press the brake controller as I thought I should "leave it to the experts" ie the Dexter Control unit.

So I guess there are 3 questions really.

1. How do you know it is working? as per Mike H original question

and

2. When should you feel it cut in? After what amount of sway?

and

3. Should you hit the brake controller at the first sign of trouble regardless of the ESC/DSC?

Maybe the 4th question is - does this deserve a new thread on its own?

-- Edited by Gorn on Friday 13th of October 2023 11:13:10 AM

Eaglemax · Guru

Gorn wrote:

dorian wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
How can you tell if a sway control system is working?
I'm sure they do self tests and a little green LED lights or something but how can you confirm it actually *detects* sway and applies the brakes?

That would make an interesting project.

Hi Dorian and others.
Just wondering if anyone has found any more info on this - i.e. how do you actually know if it is working or going to work when needed? How do you test it?
Last trip has a few episodes of sway with 2 major episodes of sway with side wind and truck wind combined. approx 90km/hr on highway drive.
Towing a new 20ft van (just under 2700GVM at the time with Colorado tow vehicle with all new upgraded suspension approx GVM 2950). We were traveling with all tanks empty.
We have the Dexter DSC fitted and I am certain it did not engage on the first sway and felt one possible tug on the brakes on the second. Both episodes were about 5 seconds long and van moved what seemed a significant amount each way a number of times although did not hit the truck that was overtaking. I did not press the brake controller as I thought I should "leave it to the experts" ie the Dexter Control unit.

So I guess there are 3 questions really.
1. How do you know it is working? as per Mike H original question
and
2. When should you feel it cut in? After what amount of sway?
and
3. Should you hit the brake controller at the first sign of trouble regardless of the ESC/DSC?
Maybe the 4th question is - does this deserve a new thread on its own?

-- Edited by Gorn on Friday 13th of October 2023 11:13:10 AM

Hi Gorn

I've had my Jurgens since mid last year. Its only 5m long Sungazer and came with ESC and ALKO friction hitch. It's 2013 model and I've never had such a system on any caravan before.

I too wondered if it worked but wasnt going to find an empty car park to risk it. Then a few months ago we had a very windy day and we were towing north of Kurrumburra hilly area. Approaching some "S" bends I slowed to 80kph and upon entering a left hand bend saw what appeared to be a 100-150mm diameter branch hanging vertically in front of me. Being a road with little traffic I swerved right to the other side of the road and the caravan immediately righted itself with the ESC cutting in. So, initially when turning right the van obviously swung out to the left then as the tug straightened on the right hand side of the road driving past the "branch" the weight of the van swung towards the right also and that is where I felt the van brakes on one side (likely the passenger side brake) which straightened up the van. Impressive stuff. So the ESC certainly works.

BTW, I stopped and walked back to the "branch" and it turned out to be a large piece of bark. I removed it.

I know nothing of the dexter system.

Tony

Possum3 · Guru

Eaglemax wrote:

I know nothing of the dexter system.
Tony

Dexter is the superior design that doesn't need to be disconnected when reversing and on dirt roads. ALKO purchased Dexter in order to use their design.

shakey55 · Senior Member

Russ

When I purchased my van, I insured the car and van were set up correctly. It did not have sway control.

I looked at it this way. After much research I had Dexter fitted, for a number of reasons including,

1. The product, I believe is one of the better ones
2. Insurance company gave a slight reduction in premium
3. Added safety aspect
4. Piece of mind

I too didnt put it on to drive faster, I did it because I wanted to and believed it was an added safety feature for the entire rig.

Your choice my friend

Eaglemax · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Eaglemax wrote:

I know nothing of the dexter system.
Tony
Dexter is the superior design that doesn't need to be disconnected when reversing and on dirt roads. ALKO purchased Dexter in order to use their design.

wondering Possum, why disconnect the ESC system when reversing? and dirts roads? Pardon my ignorance.

Tony

Possum3 · Guru

Eaglemax wrote:
Dexter is the superior design that doesn't need to be disconnected when reversing and on dirt roads. ALKO purchased Dexter in order to use their design.
wondering Possum, why disconnect the ESC system when reversing? and dirts roads? Pardon my ignorance.
Tony

Gravel roads lock up the brakes with old style ALKO system, brakes also activate when reversing and attempting to swing van either right or left.

On some fitments brakes have locked up wheels when turning corners in towns - enough to stall the tug. Dexter units never had these problems. The Engineering team at ALKO were unable to stop these dangerous actions, their only suggested solution was advising owners to disconnect power from the units - they now use Dexter methodology.

Eaglemax · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Eaglemax wrote:
Dexter is the superior design that doesn't need to be disconnected when reversing and on dirt roads. ALKO purchased Dexter in order to use their design.
wondering Possum, why disconnect the ESC system when reversing? and dirts roads? Pardon my ignorance.
Tony
Gravel roads lock up the brakes with old style ALKO system, brakes also activate when reversing and attempting to swing van either right or left.
On some fitments brakes have locked up wheels when turning corners in towns - enough to stall the tug. Dexter units never had these problems. The Engineering team at ALKO were unable to stop these dangerous actions, their only suggested solution was advising owners to disconnect power from the units - they now use Dexter methodology.

Thanks. My Jurgens is 2013, havent had those problems, maybe prior to then.
Tony

Gorn · Newbie

"Hi Gorn

I've had my Jurgens since mid last year. Its only 5m long Sungazer and came with ESC and ALKO friction hitch. It's 2013 model and I've never had such a system on any caravan before.

I too wondered if it worked but wasnt going to find an empty car park to risk it. Then a few months ago we had a very windy day and we were towing north of Kurrumburra hilly area. Approaching some "S" bends I slowed to 80kph and upon entering a left hand bend saw what appeared to be a 100-150mm diameter branch hanging vertically in front of me. Being a road with little traffic I swerved right to the other side of the road and the caravan immediately righted itself with the ESC cutting in. So, initially when turning right the van obviously swung out to the left then as the tug straightened on the right hand side of the road driving past the "branch" the weight of the van swung towards the right also and that is where I felt the van brakes on one side (likely the passenger side brake) which straightened up the van. Impressive stuff. So the ESC certainly works.

BTW, I stopped and walked back to the "branch" and it turned out to be a large piece of bark. I removed it.

I know nothing of the dexter system.

Tony"

Thanks Tony.

That is the sort of useful info I was looking for. I find it hard to rely on stuff I can't see or feel or test...... bit like relying on a politicians advice.

Maybe it deserves a thread of its own. It would be very useful for newbie towers rather than a lot of the theory that is espoused. Anyone can read all the manuals and specifications and advertising blurb, but nothing can replace genuine practical experience.

-- Edited by Gorn on Sunday 15th of October 2023 12:29:48 PM

jegog · Senior Member

The Dexter unit has a status light which shows green when the unit is operating correctly and on my van it was mounted at the front, driver side of the van so the driver can see it in their wing mirror.
It actuates as soon as the trailer plug is inserted into the vehicle socket.
As there is always a certain amount of sway when towing due to road camber and bumps there is a certain threshold to be reached before it actuates. It also has to determine whether you are driving around a bend in the road. They are really a smart bit of kit and work with the vehicle's safety features.
Vehicle plus van >$100,000? Wouldn't the once on cost be a good investment to protect car and van>

Gundog · Guru

I dont know enough of any of the sway controls currently marketed, what I do know is when I enquired about fitting an Alko ESC system a few years back, the only indicator if the unit was active was a light on plug, I asked if there was an option to have the light extended to fit on thee dash of the ute.

The response was why would you need that, with that I just walked out because his statement lead me to beleive he was just a salesman, no a caravaner. I realised later that another modification that would desirable would be an isolation switch, where you could switch of the unit when its not needed like off roading.

In the unlikely event we do decide to purchase a new van, we would opt for disk brakes on the van, and the dexter unit.

Eaglemax · Guru

Gundog wrote:
I dont know enough of any of the sway controls currently marketed, what I do know is when I enquired about fitting an Alko ESC system a few years back, the only indicator if the unit was active was a light on plug, I asked if there was an option to have the light extended to fit on thee dash of the ute.
The response was why would you need that, with that I just walked out because his statement lead me to beleive he was just a salesman, no a caravaner. I realised later that another modification that would desirable would be an isolation switch, where you could switch of the unit when its not needed like off roading.
In the unlikely event we do decide to purchase a new van, we would opt for disk brakes on the van, and the dexter unit.

My ALKO has a greenlight on the drawbar. I know where you are coming from Gundog with controlling the unit on/off so I'm wondering if these units are usually or always on caravans that are not designed for off road? That would answer that. The unit when connected (to towcar battery) goes red for a split second then green. Whenever we have stopped to disconnect it is always green, kind of set and forget. I see it like this, there is plenty of things on a rig we dont see that might not be working- brake pads could be worn (we've all had metal to metal), light bulbs blow, fuses blow and so on. If you dont need ESC you just disconnect it at the coupling. Tony

StewG · Senior Member

I have Alco ESC fitted to my van and my tug Discovery 4 also has ESC and I have never had a problem with sway. As a bonus, the van ESC qualifies for a discount on the insurance premium. So the ESC pays for itself over a few years.

Gorn · Newbie

StewG wrote:
I have Alco ESC fitted to my van and my tug Discovery 4 also has ESC and I have never had a problem with sway. As a bonus, the van ESC qualifies for a discount on the insurance premium. So the ESC pays for itself over a few years.

Hi StewG.

I note you say you have never had a problem with sway. Does that mean you have never felt sway or that the ESC has cut in early enough that you never felt worried about it? Have you felt it cut in?

I get the impression a lot of people have ESC/DSC fitted but their vans are very stable and do not sway much, and perhaps they have not had their sway control activate. As mentioned earlier I have a Dexter fitted but the van swayed at least a foot side to side a few times before I felt a tug on the brakes on only one occasion.

Would love to hear other peoples experiences with actual sway.

Eaglemax · Guru

Gorn wrote:
StewG wrote:
I have Alco ESC fitted to my van and my tug Discovery 4 also has ESC and I have never had a problem with sway. As a bonus, the van ESC qualifies for a discount on the insurance premium. So the ESC pays for itself over a few years.
Hi StewG.
I note you say you have never had a problem with sway. Does that mean you have never felt sway or that the ESC has cut in early enough that you never felt worried about it? Have you felt it cut in?
I get the impression a lot of people have ESC/DSC fitted but their vans are very stable and do not sway much, and perhaps they have not had their sway control activate. As mentioned earlier I have a Dexter fitted but the van swayed at least a foot side to side a few times before I felt a tug on the brakes on only one occasion.
Would love to hear other peoples experiences with actual sway.

As per my post 13/10/2023 it was the only time I've felt the ESC cut in. I have no idea how far the van's corners were out of line however, too busy worrying about the road and potential to get out of control. Normally our Jurgens is very stable towing with no obvious detectable sway. Maybe 25mm when a truck over takes.

Tony