Any such thing as a real EV test?

peter67 · Guru

Any such thing as a real EV test?

bgt · Guru

Peter67 you will only get theoretical "facts". I've asked that same question many times on another forum and all you get is theoretical responses. Apart from the actually vehicle performance you need to take into account charging times and the availability of a suitable network for charging.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Lights are not really worth worrying about unless the front is covered in light bars etc.

Your 17+ speaker hi-fi demolishing surrounding buildings with oversized subwoofers could become an issue.

Car air conditioning is about 4kW output, so about 1kW input. Easy enough to calculate as a percentage of your watts per km for city or country driving.

dabbler · Guru

I recently browsed a report on an annual real world comparison run on European EV performed by one of their motoring groups. I only browsed through quickly as almost all vehicles tested simply aren't available to us and I couldn't find the article again so no link sorry. Essentially they run through a fixed route which is mixed city, motorway and rural roads at different times of day and night. All vehicles are driven at the same speed on each section, at the same time of day & weather conditions. Vehicles are also run to the lowest charge each system allows. They compare power usage, charge times & rates and other buyer-relevant stats. Until Oz gets a bigger range of EV, I can't see any similar test runs being done locally and the most we can expect is the type of like-for-like comparison that's been done a few times now.

peter67 · Guru

Thank you guys.

erad · Guru

Even IF we could get electric cars with a range suitable for real world (ie country) driving, I wonder how they will go in really cold country like where I live. Being electrical, cold weather will reduce the range of the battery. And what about the kangaroos? At least with a diesel thumping away, they seem to get some waning that you are on the way towards them. With an electric car, you could sneak up on them and really startle them. Insurance claims will be through the roof.

dabbler · Guru

erad, you raise interesting points but evidence from around the world suggest they're not as dramatic as they might seem. EV are already in much colder places than Australia and NZ (not sure if that's home for you). There may be issues with temperature and EV performance but the population of cold northern hemisphere countries seems to deal with EV and weather. UK studies show current EV battery technology sees about a 6-10% loss of range in sub-zero temps. Compare this to US studies showing 12% loss of range in ICE vehicles. Similarly wildlife, we're not unique with wildlife and roads. In fact, while in Australia there are an estimated 10 million animal roadkills per year, the US reports about 140 million per year. Scandinavian countries see some roadkill too yet it hasn't increased with the uptake of EV and these countries have fleets with the highest EV percentage in the world.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

We had the Mitsubishi cars at work . Yes elect supply company .. The amount of times these cars left people with flat batteries / out of fuel ! I guess it comes down to people understanding the limits ? Like explaining to people ( often loved ones ?) how power can be consumed when camping !! Some / many just DONT understand!! I think the time will come when service stations have battery packs like swap and go with 9kg LPG . All horses for courses the type of vehicle required . A trip to pic kids up , shopping etc is different to driving 100klrs each way to work !! As said like camping you need to keep on top of things . We take for granted !

oldbloke · Guru

Lol. Charging at home takes for ever.

Whenarewethere · Guru

There are a good number of people driving to work & dropping off kids to school doing 50km a day. So a 10amp supply over 12 hours will be more than adequate.

Around my area a lot of people work from home & can plug in during the day. They are doing very low km on a typical daily basis.

The garage owners in our block of units have all put 3 phase 20amp supply to our garages. Even if we only use 240 from one phase it is 4.8kW. None of us has an EV yet.

peter67 · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
Lol. Charging at home takes for ever.

Looks like everyone will be off to the charging station then. From what I've read even an 80% charge takes many times longer than the three minutes to fill your gas tank now, wonder what will happen at EV stations as they compete on price and people flock like seagulls to the cheapest outlet?? I can see long lines of gridlock from here :)

erad · Guru

Thredbo has a charging station in the village. The people who can afford an electric vehicle eg a Tesla are the types of people who often go skiing as well as driving expensive cars. I can foresee a time when there are maybe 10 cars lining up to recharge their cars in the village. There is going to be some angst when they cannot access the station because there is a lineup of others ahead of them. Especially if a blizzard is on the way and people are trying to get out. There are 6 outlets in Cooma, and I am yet t o see an electric car charging up at any of them. I am sure they do use them, but as yet I haven't seen any.

Mike Harding · Guru

erad wrote:
Thredbo has a charging station in the village.

I suspect visitors will be taking the Porsch or Range Rover skiing instead :)

I believe electric vehicles use lithium batteries and these do not do well in cold (< 5C) weather and, I think, cannot be charged when the ambient is below 0C. I suspect this situation will improve as battery technology develops but there is a way to go yet.

Interestingly the high end notebook computer I'm using now usually runs for about two hours when I use it first thing in the morning but the other night the outside temperature dropped to -2C and inside my caravan was +3C at 6am. As usual I turned on the computer only to watch it die suddenly and without warning five minutes later as the lithium battery management controller decided it needed to protect the battery. Once the diesel heater had warmed the van and computer up to about 15C all was good. Lithium batteries have disadvantages as well as advantages.

bgt · Guru

Mike I'll be a convert to EV's when they solve the problem of laptops and phone batteries only lasting a day or at the most. After all it's a 'connected' world we live in and to be 'connected' we need reliable batteries in our devices. Case in point - a year or two ago a cruise ship in the Gulf of Mexico lost power. Passenger fought each other over the few working power outlets. The 24 hour cycle! If we can't solve that problem then how the heck are we going to help someone in their EV stuck with a flat batteries between Birdsville and Port Augusta?

peter67 · Guru

bgt you worry wart, you leave the greenies stuck there in the EV and let nature recycle them, easy peazy.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Unless batteries are like swap and go ? Click click Zzzzzzz. zzzzzzz

peter67 · Guru

As long as you have ten strong mates to help you.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Air conditioning is not really an issue on range, but heating is. Nissan have installed reverse cycle air conditioning.

' World's first EV power-saving cabin heater

A heat-pump cabin heater has been adopted for heating an electric vehicle (EV), using less power than conventional models. It greatly improves power consumption when the heater is being used. Nissan LEAF is the first mass-produced vehicle in the world to employ a heat-pump cabin heater. '

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/heat_pump_cabin_heater.html

Sarco Harris · Senior Member

I would consider an EV when I can hook up my 2000Kg van drive for 800km, spend 15 mins refueling (charging) and drive another 800Km, rinse and repeat, over a week.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Our trips around Australia average about 170km a day. I can't understand the concept of 800km day after day after day after day... An accident which hasn't happen yet.

Sarco Harris · Senior Member

800Km is figurative distance, more accurately would be 500Km per day.

Also I cannot comprehend doing only 170Km per day. Perhaps if that is all you are prepared to travel daily, it is time to give it away.

Base ones self, then tour a couple of 100Km then move on 4-500km again rinse and repeat.

However, Central Vic to Perth is a long way.

Tourism is for the return journey,

Charging every day would either require CP or a decent generator running all night. I am sure others around would appreciate that. NOT!

Whenarewethere · Guru

20I9 I spent a month in Tassie. Then other half went to Europe & I said I would pick her up from Perth airport. So I did an average 286km a day from Sydney. Then 3 months slowly back to Sydney. We would be bored to tears stuck in a place for a week.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

A lot of people ready to condemn an industry in its infancy. It will develop so fast it will make heads spin.
Long range vehicles (semis, trains, ships & planes) will be electric powered by hydrogen via fuel cells.
Trains are already diesel electric. Changing to fuel cells and hydrogen is a relatively simple matter.
Long range, quick fuel up.
Cheers,
Peter

bgt · Guru

Peter what you describe isn't an EV but a hybrid. Peter I would be interested to know about the battery planes.

Hybrids make sense for a transition. Those 'pushing' for EVs are doing their cause no good by promoting EVs as the next step. As a result folks can easily shoot down the EV debate in Australia. But the smart folks will be pushing for hybrids that will transition as technology advances.

Whenarewethere · Guru

This probably will not be a solution for Australia, but if you have been on the motorways in Germany, the volume of trucks is on a whole different level, frightening stuff. It makes truck volume in Australia look like a pathetic joke.

Other countries are testing different ideas.

https://www.globalenergyworld.com/news/sustainable-energy/2021/01/28/seven-more-scania-trucks-be-delivered-as-german-eroad-expands

Screenshot_20210623-085711~2.png

Trucks over 7.5 tonnes are also not allowed to use the motorways in Germany on Sundays to give the rest of the public a break from trucks.

bgt · Guru

I've been on the Germany Autobahns. Doing 200kmph. Trucks doing 80kmph. Scary. But even those pale away when on some of the USA's interstate highways. Try going through Chattanooga where I59, I24 and I75 join. Or I20 through Dallas, Fort Worth. No one in their right mind can convince me that all those trucks will be EVs in 10 years. No one. The Hume Highway is only a country lane compared to highways over seas. Yet we are to believe all this will change in the next 10 years. Phsst.

Mike Harding · Guru

bgt wrote:
Peter I would be interested to know about the battery planes.

Last I heard; if aircraft were a country they would be the sixth largest polluter on the planet. It's going to take a awful lot of Duracells make all those electric planes fly.

Gundog · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:
This probably will not be a solution for Australia, but if you have been on the motorways in Germany, the volume of trucks is on a whole different level, frightening stuff. It makes truck volume in Australia look like a pathetic joke.
Other countries are testing different ideas.
https://www.globalenergyworld.com/news/sustainable-energy/2021/01/28/seven-more-scania-trucks-be-delivered-as-german-eroad-expands

Trucks over 7.5 tonnes are also not allowed to use the motorways in Germany on Sundays to give the rest of the public a break from trucks.

There not trucks they are dinky toys single arse drive, bogie trailer. not a triaxle trailer, B double or road train in sight. 10-15 tonne loads, compared to our 25-60 tonne load hence they need more trucks bogging up the highways.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Obviously the're not big trucks, but at least they are experimenting.

Screenshot_20210623-115556~2.png

bgt · Guru

Mike will the pilots also be pink bunny rabbits?