Towing Level

RobDor · Veteran Member

RE: Towing Level

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
yobarr wrote:
If you could point out exactly where you believe I "suggest" that the lower front is bad,I may be able to elaborate.Cheers
The image.
Are you serious? The image shows a setup with a very significant nose down attitude. This is far from level or slightly nose down. The caption was "A very poorly setup unit". That does not mean a conflicting opinion with level or slightly nose down. But I will leave it to yobarr to say more if he chooses.

Nothing more to be said,Stephen,as you have pointed out what I thought was obvious. Sorry if anybody was confused.The picture was solely to illustrate how poorly some people set up their cars,and to serve as a warning of the perils of doing so.Whilst it is acceptable,and sometimes recommended,on a van with load-sharing suspension,to have the front end lower than the rear,it is not wise to do so on vans with non-loadsharing suspension.To do so can can cause the van to become unstable,although lowering pressures in the tyres on the front axle can help to minimise problems.Cheers

yobarr · Guru

RobDor wrote:
StewG wrote:
Just my two cents worth. I run my 2.6T single axle van 265/75/16 tyres at 60 psi (rated max is 80psi) and that works for me. The van and tug should both be level when hitched up on level ground. Be mindful of the tug axle loads - see the owners manual for maximum front and particularly rear axle loads. Depending on your rig, you may be well within GCM, GVM, TBM and ATM but still overload the tug rear axle if you fill the tray/boot.
That is exactly my setup, so will be close to that. Cheers

Hi Rob.When the BT50 was a Ford in disguise,the axle capacities were 1480kg front and 1850kg rear.New BT50 has axle capacities of 1450kg front and 1910kg rear,so you are ahead there.Front axle weight matters little when you have weight on the towbar.GVM is now 3100kg,but the GCM has dropped to 5950kg. Note that a 260kg towball weight applies around 370kg to your car's rear axle,and,as Stew says,you will need to manage weight in the tray,but it is not really a big worry,as your rear axle capacity is only 40kg less than that of the ubiquitous LC200..Cheers.

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 2nd of July 2021 06:40:56 PM

yobarr · Guru

wasn_me wrote:
yobarr wrote:
wasn_me wrote:
Iana, it doesn't matter a rats bum.
Wrong!
Right!

Peter.Are you agreeing that I'm right,or saying that what you originally posted is right? Anyway,having the nose slightly up on a van with load sharing suspension matters little,but on a van with non-loadsharing suspension,any raising of the drawbar will increase towball weight because you are removing weight from the front axle of the van.Cheers

yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
A question for the wise, I have noticed a tow bars with the tongue turned over and the ball obviously, to get a bit extra height to level the van.
Does that compromise the integrity of the hitch? Reduce the weight carrying capacity? And is it legal?
Cheers Bob

Hi Bob.While i do not currently have access to exact details, I do know that some Toyota towbars lose capacity when inverted.Later,I will try to find the details in my records,but the answer to your question is "Yes".Cheers

PS Found it!

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 2nd of July 2021 07:53:03 PM

RobDor · Veteran Member

yobarr wrote:
RobDor wrote:
StewG wrote:
Just my two cents worth. I run my 2.6T single axle van 265/75/16 tyres at 60 psi (rated max is 80psi) and that works for me. The van and tug should both be level when hitched up on level ground. Be mindful of the tug axle loads - see the owners manual for maximum front and particularly rear axle loads. Depending on your rig, you may be well within GCM, GVM, TBM and ATM but still overload the tug rear axle if you fill the tray/boot.
That is exactly my setup, so will be close to that. Cheers
Hi Rob.When the BT50 was a Ford in disguise,the axle capacities were 1480kg front and 1850kg rear.New BT50 has axle capacities of 1450kg front and 1910kg rear,so you are ahead there.Front axle weight matters little when you have weight on the towbar.GVM is now 3100kg,but the GCM has dropped to 5950kg. Note that a 260kg towball weight applies around 370kg to your car's rear axle,and,as Stew says,you will need to manage weight in the tray,but it is not really a big worry,as your rear axle capacity is only 40kg less than that of the ubiquitous LC200..Cheers.

Ive hitched up and its almost level, its slight nose down and 10mm off being level. I towed it to a specialist cruisemaster (thats what I have) place, who also specialise in towing things and he said he would leave it, its pretty well perfect ! A riser he said may take it the other way a little. It towed great, no problems. Heres a couple of pics -

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 2nd of July 2021 06:40:56 PM

Gundog · Guru

RobDor wrote:

Ive hitched up and its almost level, its slight nose down and 10mm off being level. I towed it to a specialist cruisemaster (thats what I have) place, who also specialise in towing things and he said he would leave it, its pretty well perfect ! A riser he said may take it the other way a little. It towed great, no problems. Heres a couple of pics -

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 2nd of July 2021 06:40:56 PM

Hi Rob I'm hoping that where you took the 2 photo's was not very level, because it appears to be more than 10mm down at the front.

My question for you have you measured the height of the towing hitch on a level surface with the van level, and then measured the hight of the towbar pin. with your style of coupling it would be the base of the hitch pin and the bottom of the coupling.

RobDor · Veteran Member

Gundog wrote:
RobDor wrote:

Ive hitched up and its almost level, its slight nose down and 10mm off being level. I towed it to a specialist cruisemaster (thats what I have) place, who also specialise in towing things and he said he would leave it, its pretty well perfect ! A riser he said may take it the other way a little. It towed great, no problems. Heres a couple of pics -

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 2nd of July 2021 06:40:56 PM

Hi Rob I'm hoping that where you took the 2 photo's was not very level, because it appears to be more than 10mm down at the front.
My question for you have you measured the height of the towing hitch on a level surface with the van level, and then measured the hight of the towbar pin. with your style of coupling it would be the base of the hitch pin and the bottom of the coupling.

You mean unhitch and do that measurement ? Ill do it again, but I keep getting told its the level when hitched thats important ??? getting confusing now.I know the car drops about 35mm when hitched.

RobDor · Veteran Member

RobDor wrote:
Gundog wrote:
RobDor wrote:

Ive hitched up and its almost level, its slight nose down and 10mm off being level. I towed it to a specialist cruisemaster (thats what I have) place, who also specialise in towing things and he said he would leave it, its pretty well perfect ! A riser he said may take it the other way a little. It towed great, no problems. Heres a couple of pics -

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 2nd of July 2021 06:40:56 PM

Hi Rob I'm hoping that where you took the 2 photo's was not very level, because it appears to be more than 10mm down at the front.
My question for you have you measured the height of the towing hitch on a level surface with the van level, and then measured the hight of the towbar pin. with your style of coupling it would be the base of the hitch pin and the bottom of the coupling.
You mean unhitch and do that measurement ? Ill do it again, but I keep getting told its the level when hitched thats important ??? getting confusing now.I know the car drops about 35mm when hitched.

Ok Ive measured again unhitched. Caravan on level pad next to house and car in garage, so as flat as house slab ! The car measures 540mm to hitch point. The van measures 650mm to same point. Here are 3 pics showing the measurements and level on caravan. I welcome your advice. Thanks

Possum3 · Guru

Rob, consider changing flat plate hitch to one with say 75mm rise - that should come out about right when van is hooked on.

RobDor · Veteran Member

Possum3 wrote:
Rob, consider changing flat plate hitch to one with say 75mm rise - that should come out about right when van is hooked on.

Ok, something like this ? See pic as well

ADJUSTABLE & REVERSIBLE - 12 STAGES
6 STAGES OF DROP - 80MM/110MM/130MM/140MM/160MM/190MM
6 STAGES OF RISE - 50MM/80MM/105MM/110MM/135MM/165MM
9MM DUAL SUPPORT GUSSETS FOR ADDED STRENGTH
USES 12.9 GRADE HIGH TENSILE 16MM BOLTS
25MM X 75MM HEAVY DUTY BALL PLATFORM.
BLACK POWDER COATED FINISH
ROBOTIC WELDED FOR CONSISTENT QUALITY
CNC MACHINED FOR MAXIMUM ACCURACY
MADE TOUGH FOR AUSSIE CONDITIONS
FITS 2" X 2" TOWBAR RECEIVERS

GROSS TRAILER WEIGHT: 4000KG
TONGUE WEIGHT: 400KG
BALL HOLE SIZE: 7/8"
MAX DROP: 190MM
MAX RISE: 165MM
LENGTH: 305MM (MEASURED FROM CENTRE OF PIN HOLE TO CENTRE OF BALL HOLE)

Possum3 · Guru

As long as it is certified as reversible it should be OK (as you need to raise not lower hitch). Many Companies will allow you test fitment to car (with a representative accompaning you) www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-adjustable-tow-hitch-16-position/607654.html

yobarr · Guru

RobDor wrote:
Possum3 wrote:
Rob, consider changing flat plate hitch to one with say 75mm rise - that should come out about right when van is hooked on.
Ok, something like this ? See pic as well
    MAX DROP: 190MM
    MAX RISE: 165MM
    LENGTH: 305MM (MEASURED FROM CENTRE OF PIN HOLE TO CENTRE OF BALL HOLE)

Hi Rob.Confusing? You bet,and when you get a "specialist" saying to leave it,confusion levels increase! Simple physics would show that if your hitch height on a level caravan is 650mm,when you hitch it to your car that has hitch height of 540mm,immediately the front of the van has dropped 110mm,just to even reach the car's towbar.To this 110mm drop you must then add the 35mm that you advise is how much your car drops when you attach the van.(Seems small drop for 240kg TBW).When I went to school,admittedly many moons ago,adding 110mm and 35mm gave a total of 145.This means that the front of your van is 145mm lower than it was when the van was level.That's nearly 6".If you look at the photo of Stew's car and van,you may agree that it looks reasonably level? IMO,a drop of 6" on a van like yours is ridiculous,and I certainly would fit the towbar in your attachment.By doing so,you can then experiment to find what is best for you,and you will be able to adjust the hitch if you wish to tow other trailers.Cheers.

P.S A well set up unit.

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 3rd of July 2021 02:07:33 PM

Gundog · Guru

Rob, Thanks for doing the measurement and the photo's, it clearly shows you need at least a 100mm riser preferably 110mm. Does you towbar have the 50mm receiver for the tongue? Check out your local Haymen Reece agent for the correct riser.

oldbloke · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Rob, Thanks for doing the measurement and the photo's, it clearly shows you need at least a 100mm riser preferably 110mm. Does you towbar have the 50mm receiver for the tongue? Check out your local Haymen Reece agent for the correct riser.

Yep, but I thought a bit more to allow for the are to drop a bit.

RobDor · Veteran Member

Thank you all. Yes, its a standard 50mm receiver and sounds like the more level I can get it when hitched, the nicer it will tow/ride, so will source an adjustable hitch and work on that. Will report back with results when done ! Cheers

darjak · Senior Member

Yobarr is right.
My rig 19 tandem 300mm extended Aframe, tyres A/T 265/75/16 LT 10ply.
Tyres cold 36psi, drawbar 60mm down in front when loaded and hitched (3200kg Approx)
Was taught never ever nose up as this promotes harmonic motion and instability.
Ive been towing all sorts of trailers in just about every conceivable condition for near on 60yrs
without any problems.

Just my two bobs worth.

RobDor · Veteran Member

Yep, Im aiming for slightly nose down of level. Should have it sorted with the adjustable hitch this weekend. Will post pic

RobDor · Veteran Member

Adjustable hitch fitted and thats about as level as you can get. Thank you all for your help.

KJB · Guru

RobDor wrote:
Adjustable hitch fitted and thats about as level as you can get. Thank you all for your help.

Thanks for the Update........sounds like you are happy , that's good.......

yobarr · Guru

RobDor wrote:
Adjustable hitch fitted and thats about as level as you can get. Thank you all for your help.

Looks great,Rob! You've done a great job.Probably difficult to get it set up better than it is,but you might like to get your safety chains sorted? At the moment it appears that they would not prevent the van's drawbar hitting the ground if the van somehow became disconnected.I believe that,by law,this is not allowed? A quick search revealed nothing,but other members may elaborate? Cheers.

LATER:-

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 10th of July 2021 03:07:05 PM

RobDor · Veteran Member

yobarr wrote:
RobDor wrote:
Adjustable hitch fitted and thats about as level as you can get. Thank you all for your help.
Looks great,Rob! You've done a great job.Probably difficult to get it set up better than it is,but you might like to get your safety chains sorted? At the moment it appears that they would not prevent the van's drawbar hitting the ground if the van somehow became disconnected.I believe that,by law,this is not allowed? A quick search revealed nothing,but other members may elaborate? Cheers.
LATER:-

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 10th of July 2021 03:07:05 PM

Ok yep, they are crossed. Ill check length, they may need to be one link shorter. Thanks for the heads up. Cheers

Gundog · Guru

RobDor wrote:
Adjustable hitch fitted and thats about as level as you can get. Thank you all for your help.

Excellent result Rob well done.

Greg 1 · Guru

Ignore the van body as they can be deceptive, but if you eye off the drawbar that is as near as damn it perfect. The increase in hitch height has been worthwhile.

RobDor · Veteran Member

Gundog wrote:
RobDor wrote:
Adjustable hitch fitted and thats about as level as you can get. Thank you all for your help.
Excellent result Rob well done.