Changing Jayco to Lithium Batteries.

Tailor · Veteran Member

Changing Jayco to Lithium Batteries.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Tailor wrote:
I envisage changing the controller to a Victron Smartsolar 100/30, which should handle the 450W of panels on the roof and can be set for lithium.

If the sun is never directly overhead a 100/30 will be ok.

I have 120 watts which produce 7.8amps under good conditions facing the sun. My Victron 100/20 can output up to 11.3amps from the 7.8amp input, but usually up to around 9.8amps output.

So 9.8/120 x 450 = 36.7amps or 11.3/120 x 450 = 42.3amps.

If you get the 100/30 you will loose about 18% on a good day under ideal conditions. Under perfect conditions 29% is thrown out the window.

A 100/30 output stops at 30amps. Not a milliamp more.

But you should know how good your panels are by the maximum amps being fed into the batteries now. If they are ordinary panels you will never be getting anywhere near 36amps.

BaldEd · Veteran Member

Tailor wrote:
1. When connected to 240V power, this helps charge the batteries. If I unplug this aspect I was thinking I could replace this function with a dedicated Lithium battery charger plugged into the .240 outlet.
2. The PWM solar controller appears to be wired directly to the battery. I envisage changing the controller to a Victron Smartsolar 100/30, which should handle the 450W of panels on the roof and can be set for lithium.
3. Is the breakaway system battery dependant upon 240v or does it also charge from 12V. If necessary a small inverted would suffice.
4. I believe the 12V aux from the tug would also have to be enabled to charge lithium, or disabled.
Any comments on the above would be welcome.

Also have problems with LEDs and TV flickering when the water pump is turned on. Jayco told me to connect a wire from the negative side of the pump directly to a negative terminal on the battery. Didn't help at all. The other suggestion was to change the LEDS. To what I ask??

3. The breakaway battery is not dependent solely on 240v for charging. It can be charged from both 240v and 12v sources. If you connect the van with your 12 pin plug to your tug and have the engine running you will see the "Charge" light (on the breakaway battery box) lit indicating that the battery is receiving a charge. If your van is anything like my 2016 Jayco you will have a plug pack inserted in a 240v socket adjacent to the battery box. This allows you to "top-up" the battery whilst the van is connected to 240v - just make sure that you remember to turn the 240v socket switch on. smile

4. If you are referring to the 12v aux power provided in the 12 pin plug, this supply would not be enough to provided charge to your van's lithium battery(s). You will need to run a separate feed from your tug's alternator - there is plenty of advice available on the net on how to do this. I wouldn't disconnect the 12v aux supply as it most likely used by other features in your van e.g. the breakaway charger, toilet pump, ESC etc when the 12v SETEC disconnect is active whilst towing.

Regarding the LEDs flickering when the water pump is active, we also experience that but usually only when we have just barely cracked a tap open and the pump is pumping very slowly. It has never affected the TV, though the our TV does 'blank out' momentarily when a stove gas igniter is activated - I guess that is because both the stove igniters and the TV are probably fed via the same SETEC fuse. Never bothered me enough to attempt to move either feed to a different fuse - if your van's SETEC wire crimping is anything like my van's you are well advised not to fiddle around with the wires back there.

Tailor · Veteran Member

Hi,

Thanks for your replies.

Jayco wouldn't give me a wiring diagram so I have traced every thing in the van and done my own. Probably took a couple of days but I now know the how of the guts of the system.

Jayco advised me to contact their current system supplier and get a quote to do a changeover to lithium. To my mind that would entail a great deal of work and I didn't fancy that or the potential cost so decided, after working out the Setec system etc. to go a relatively simple route.

First, the solar input. These wires go direct to the batteries. Simple matter to remove the installed controller and replace with a Victron Smartsolar 100/30. I've done this and data displayed on the Drifter panel matches. Will use the bluetooth app and change the configuration to lithium when I change the batteries.

Second, I'm going to disconnect the 240V to the Setec. I intend to install a Victron Blue smart IP22 charger to charge the batteries when on 240V power. Reason for this is the ability to use it with the Victron App. Can use it with teh AGMs and also change when lithium installed.

As Balded said, I don't need to worry about the breakaway battery, just leave the setup as is.

So far, so good. All the 12V features work through the Setec, and I've listed which lights and functions are aligned with each of the 7 fuses.

When the system is completed I'll try to get back to this topic and advise about good or bad outcome.
Cheers
John

Rob Driver · Guru

Hi Tailor,

Here are some links you might want to follow up. They will link to people that have done what you wish to do.

store.trip-tracks.com.au/

www.caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php

www.t1lithium.com.au/

This will give you some bedtime reading and the answers to tour enqiry will be included in some of this info.

As a word of advice.forget anything your van manufacturer may suggestI wont go any further with that.

Tailor · Veteran Member

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the links. Very good reading.

In my previous post I forgot to mention that I have removed the fuse from the AUX on the Setec until I sort out distribution from my LC79. I already have an idle Anderson plug on the tug, so will probably go direct to the fridge from that. Won't matter then if I have AGMs in the tug and lithium in the van.

Like you say, ignore what the manufacturer says.

I already have 3 x 150 W solar panels on the roof and they have no hope of being enough with the existing system. We do camp off grid for 2-3 weeks at a time and its frustrating having to rely on the gennie for hours a day.

I've ordered 2 x 170 ah Lithium with BMS. OK, not the most expensive, but time will tell if that was a mistake. With the addition of the SmartSolar Victron MPPT and Victron Charger, the total cost, doing the work myself is under $2000. I stuck with Victron because I can use the VictronConnect App to see what is going on without having to pull out the club lounge each time.

At the same time I've added a second water pump to feed the filtered outlet. No big deal, T into line before the existing pump, take the outlet direct to the pipe which feeds the filter and block off the original feed. Works a treat and we have option on using our tank water.

I've no gripe with Jayco. We have had 4 different models and I understand how they have to work to get a reasonably good product into a budget.

Thanks again for the links, confirms my thoughts.

Cheers

John

iana · Guru

We too have the flickering lights when the pump operates, but it hasn't worried us. I have thought to fix that, I would use the existing pump electrical feed to activate a relay, then bring the pump supply direct from the battery. This way none of the existing wiring is altered.

Since i have already replaced the inverter we are ready to go with lithium, just need the money.

Tailor · Veteran Member

Hi iana,

Already tried the relay trick. Used the feed from the drifter panel to switch the relay which is connected directly to the battery. Did not help.

Noelpolar · Veteran Member

I have a Jayco 2017 Silverline.... added lithium a couple of years ago (200ah), victron 100/50, 800w solar, enerdrive 40amp DC2DC, victron 240v 30amp charger, Victron 712..... all works well together. Also wired an inverter via a change over switch in as well.

My van has a J35c.... anyway.... can help with any specific questions.

Fwiw.... I still use the J35c on 240v (ie it runs in power supply mode)..... and have connected my lithium to the J35c via a 30amp schottky diode.... so the J35 can't charge it.... I just turn my J35 and victron 240v charger on/off at the GPO depending on which one I want running. I left the basic vehicle dc feed to the aux conection on the J35... not to charge anything... but it does act as an interlock to disable the slide oit from operating when connected to the vehicle.

-- Edited by Noelpolar on Monday 12th of July 2021 12:28:54 AM

Tailor · Veteran Member

Nice to know I'm not the only one thinking along the same lines.

Am waiting on the delivery of the two 170ah batteries. The current covid-19 situation in NSW seems to be playing havoc with deliveries.

Am really happy with progress, have a complete schematic of the electrics in the van, and decided to put in a fuse block to tidy up the mare's nest of wiring under the lounge. Dislike those unmarked inline fuses especially when/if something blows out camping off grid. Also wondering why they use 6 B&S to the fridge, internally, and much smaller wire from the 12 pin connection in the tug. I would have thought the voltage drop would have already happened. Another thing I may have to fix.

Also did schematics of the light switches and plumbing. The latter was very helpful in figuring out how to stop crappy town water back filling the tanks.

Would like to make provision for portable panels when under shade, but haven't been able to figure out how to run wires to connect to the Victron controller.

Dick0 · Guru

Tailor wrote:
Nice to know I'm not the only one thinking along the same lines.

Am waiting on the delivery of the two 170ah batteries. The current covid-19 situation in NSW seems to be playing havoc with deliveries.

Am really happy with progress, have a complete schematic of the electrics in the van, and decided to put in a fuse block to tidy up the mare's nest of wiring under the lounge. Dislike those unmarked inline fuses especially when/if something blows out camping off grid. Also wondering why they use 6 B&S to the fridge, internally, and much smaller wire from the 12 pin connection in the tug. I would have thought the voltage drop would have already happened. Another thing I may have to fix.

Also did schematics of the light switches and plumbing. The latter was very helpful in figuring out how to stop crappy town water back filling the tanks.

Would like to make provision for portable panels when under shade, but haven't been able to figure out how to run wires to connect to the Victron controller.

Most tugs will have a separate Anderson Plug wired from the engine bay using 6B&S cable and don't use the 12Pin plug for Fridge operation during travel.

You won't know yourself when you change over to Lithium batteries. smile smile smile

Noelpolar · Veteran Member

Fwiw.... I have one anderson that goes direct to the solar controller and a couple that go to the battery from near each wheel arch... .. all handy
for various things. Given my roof solar system is running pairs of series panels .... my folding panel is series wired up.... so 42v or so... hence the anderson direct to the victron solar controller.

Ram Man · Veteran Member

HI Taylor,

I have been looking at the issues of Lithium Batteries, I believe that you'll need a DC to DC charger from your tow vehicle to charge the lithium batteries form a low charge point.

A youtube video showed that a vehicle alternator burnt out trying to charge Lithium Battery that had only 3 % available charge @ 1500 rpm, however at 3000 rpm the cooling from the Alternator was sufficient to prevent overheating and burnout.

The Redarc DC to DC unit has a overheat prevention, Lithium wakeup feature and is fully sealed, no fan motor, very good operations in low & high temperature and a few other advantages.

I am not certain if one would fit this into the Van itself or mount in the tow vehicle, but I am certain what with smart alternators the different charging requirements for lithium, AGM, lead acid you going to need to consider this.

Regards

Ram Man

Tailor · Veteran Member

Hi Ram Man,

Thanks for your input, I do consider all thoughts put forward.

I separate my tug electrics from the van, so have a Redarc BCDC 1250D looking after the two aux batteries in the tug, also with solar input. At pre3sent AGMs but will change to Lithium.
My van now has the solar controlled by the Victron. When on 240V I'm using the Victron charger to do the additional work. AS a backup for charging I use a Ctek M15 charger which I can set for Lithium.

I have an Anderson plug on the back of the tug, fed from the two batteries, not the alternator. If I feed that directly to the fridge, I should avoid the issues with the alternator. Hope, hope.!!!

Cheers
John

Nifty150 · Veteran Member

I looked at a number of options, including making up my own battery from hundreds of individual cells (like someone I know who was building a 600 Ah battery). In the end I bought a battery and DC2DC charger from Enerdrive, saved me months of fiddling but cost me plenty of dollars. Its very simple and very reliable. The dc charger runs at 40 amps or more while the engine is running, and since the dc charger has a solar input, that runs at whatever is available when stopped. An app on my phone shows me charge and discharge current, voltage, individual cell health etc. With a system like this you can fully recharge a 200Ah battery with a day of driving. If you can afford the outlay, this approach saves you a lot of worry.

Tailor · Veteran Member

Hi Nifty150,
Appreciate your input.
Unfortunately being reliant on the pension, cost is a problem. Every dollar I can save enables me to do something better.
Tomorrow I expect to install 2 x 130Ah Lithium batteries in the tug. Friday we go completely off grid for 17 days in an old camper trailer, so it will give that system a real work out.
Fortunately we do have a Honda 20i just in case. I'm looking forward to the experiment. Tired of the stress from better half when the TV goes out during Home & Away. Yuk!!

Yendys200 · Member

Hi John

I noticed a post on flicker lights on your Jayco when water pump was switched on I have the same problem ( have only had the motor home 3 weeks not new ) I was thinking of putting a heavier cable + to the pump from battery with a relay on the existing supply so I can still switch it off and on ,or did you find a way of fixing yours

regards Syd

Tailor · Veteran Member

Hi Syd,

Sorry I didn't find the answer. Jayco suggested changing the LED bulbs but that was no help. I've given up on trying as I have other more pressing problems.
The only place I have a problem in in the ensuite. I have considering swapping them away from LEDs if I can find normal replacements
.May use a fraction more power but I have since changed to 4 x 140 lithium batteries so it shouldnt be too tough.
Again, it's getting the time and enthusiasm which is the problem.
If it works and I get to it I'll come back to this topic.
Cheers
John

TimTim · Guru

-- Edited by TimTim on Monday 29th of August 2022 04:53:01 AM

Tailor · Veteran Member

Tim Tim
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Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Its voltage drop when the pump starts up ! Possibly due to wiring being on the small side and maybe battery voltage a little low ? Draws more amps multiplying the problem . Check where both are powered from ? Pumps and lights could be fed from same main feed wires ? As said a relay with fused load feed going back to battery !!!

Tailor · Veteran Member

Hi,

Appreciate your thoughts. I have 560 a/h lithium at 13.6V, so it's not that. I have 8 B&S via a seperate fuse to a relay. The relay is switched from the screen. Wire length is no more than 1.5 metre from battery to pump.

Definitely both pump and lights are on the same circuit and I haven't really tried to seperate them.

Had the same problem with the TV when the pump was on. Overcame that by running a 5 B&S directly from the battery bank, with a midi fuse.

Thanks for your input.

Cheers

TimTim · Guru

My apologies Tailor as I realised it was an old thread that had been revisited. Im sure you have sorted out the connecting for your portable panels by now smile

Tailor · Veteran Member

Thanks for the reply Tim Tim,

Yes, I managed with much fear and trepidation to find where I could tap into the existing wires. A cavity beside the fridge, where a great bunch of wires were confined in a space about 40-50mm wide.
Heart in mouth drilling from outside the van, hoping I was in the right place and not spear any existing wiring. Seems I succeeded :)

Cheers and thanks for caring.