Australia's Military Capability.

iana · Guru

Australia's Military Capability.

Bicyclecamper · Guru

When I was in the army, just after Australia came out of the Vietnam War, our capability, to fight a war on our shores was 11 days, before we would be over run, now our capability is 39 hours. If we did what military boffins have wanted for the last 15 years, that is to have 200,000 soldiers trained on the ground every year, plus 100,000 reservists, and the capability to recall, former trained soldiers at any point in time, for a war footing, the belief is we would have 3 months, long enough for other allies to come help us out. But all our previous governments have declined this request. We are at the cusp of a war right now, either Taiwan or even on our shores, and we are stuffed. Even if the government called on every adult aged member of the population to be drafted to fight this war, we do not have the supplies to arm them. Just pray, we don't go to war anytime soon.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 11th of August 2021 12:27:51 PM

dorian · Guru

A cyber attack would shut down the entire country in a matter of minutes. Ask yourself, which countries are producing the most capable data recovery tools, and I mean those tools which rely on firmware level access to storage devices. These secrets need to be reverse engineered -- documentation is not publicly available.

The answer is that all these tools originate in Russia and China, the West's cold war adversaries. The US "Equation Group" used this type of attack against specific targets, but it was Kaspersky Labs who exposed the malware. The same methods are used in data recovery at the firmware/hardware level. Any attacker who can gain this level of access to a storage device "owns" your system.

Mike Harding · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:
When I was in the army, just after Australia came out of the Vietnam War, our capability, to fight a war on our shores was 11 days, before we would be over run, now our capability is 39 hours.

It isn't that simple: we're not just going to see 1000 Chinese ships 2km from Darwin one day and think "Dam! I didn't expect that!".

They'll be a lengthy build-up; political issues, sabre rattling, then time for the Chinese (whoever) to assemble a fleet (planes or ships) and all this stuff will be picked up by the Five Eyes systems and, with luck, the Yanks and Brits et al will provide support which, hopefully, will make the Chinese think Oz isn't *really* that desirable after all.

It will never be possible for Australia to defend itself without early resort to nuclear weapons (which we don't have). Twenty five million people are *never* going to be able to defend a country of this size. I imagine the main plan is to withdraw south and establish a defence of the SE corner?

Of course, with the firearms restrictions in this country there is not much possibility of forming a decent resistance and one hell of a lot of people who don't know which end of a rifle goes bang. Occupying powers do prefer a compliant and helpless population.

Iana's point though is well made: I wonder how much of the defence force's kit comes out of China?

dorian · Guru

What use are bullets and handguns against air power and a mechanised army? You would need RPGs and shoulder launched missiles, and that's something that even the most rabid gun nut wouldn't contemplate.

Mike Harding · Guru

dorian wrote:
What use are bullets and handguns against air power and a mechanised army?

Ask the Taliban, the Viet Cong, the Maquis, the IRA....

A resistance force does not have to defeat the occupiers it simply has to make life difficult for them... hopefully so difficult they'll decide this wide brown land is not worth the trouble and we're not going to do that with catapults which, by the way, are also illegal in Australia.

Possum3 · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
we're not going to do that with catapults which, by the way, are also illegal in Australia.

They are legal to own and use with an appropriate firearm licence - Perhaps we should all join a catapult or bait caster club and attempt to get it as an Olympic sport

Mike Harding · Guru

I don't think so:

https://www.police.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2018-11/Prohibited-Weapons-Guide_APR-2015.pdf

https://legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/whole/html/inforce/2017-08-25/act-1998-127#sch.1

They need "Commissioner's approval" and, in any event, I doubt they would worry the Chinese.

iana · Guru

A democratic society, even after umteen meetings, the inability to make a decision. The second world war is an example, not ready, even with the obvious threats in Europe. We are ATM doubting the ability of the French subs to be built, and with gun and tire issues on our latest APV scout vehicle, the mind boggles.
Why use ships, we have any number of premade landing strips along the Nullarbor, and staging strips all the way across the ocean. Over night would see WA occupied.

dorian · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
dorian wrote:
What use are bullets and handguns against air power and a mechanised army?
Ask the Taliban, the Viet Cong, the Maquis, the IRA....
A resistance force does not have to defeat the occupiers it simply has to make life difficult for them... hopefully so difficult they'll decide this wide brown land is not worth the trouble and we're not going to do that with catapults which, by the way, are also illegal in Australia.

ISIS were bombed out of existence from the air. The Taliban would have suffered a similar fate if they hadn't been sheltered by Pakistan. The Viet Cong hid in the jungle and survived, despite Agent Orange.

The simple fallacy in your argument is that we don't all need to have a gun under our beds. Thirty years ago, when I lived in Singapore, every able bodied male had to do a stint of military service, so all of them learnt to be prepared. At the same time, having even a single round of ammunition in one's personal possession was a capital offence. That kind of society is far preferable to importing American style gun lunacy into this country.

Mike Harding · Guru

dorian wrote:
At the same time, having even a single round of ammunition in one's personal possession was a capital offence. That kind of society is far preferable to importing American style gun lunacy into this country.

So you would like to see every Australian with an old 22 round in his shed hanging by a noose.

I think we're now all very well aware of your position Dorian.

Bicyclecamper · Guru

I doubt we would get one member of the public out there to even take up arms, as they are sheep today, sheep, whom don't believe that anyone should have a weapon. They would all jump ship and run, especially as 49% of them are immigrants. No Offence.

dorian · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
dorian wrote:
At the same time, having even a single round of ammunition in one's personal possession was a capital offence. That kind of society is far preferable to importing American style gun lunacy into this country.
So you would like to see every Australian with an old 22 round in his shed hanging by a noose.
I think we're now all very well aware of your position Dorian.

I would rather have a gun-free society for reasons that should be obvious to every peace loving person. I would definitely not give a deadly weapon to someone who kills for pleasure, whether the targets be animals or human beings. That's a serious psychological disorder and should be treated as such.

Those of us who are not blind can all see what kind of society you are advocating, and I don't want to be a part of it. By all means, teach every able bodied man how to use a weapon to defend his country, but don't give every nutter an opportunity to own one. If Singapore can do it, then so can Australia.

As for immigrants not standing up for their adopted country, maybe someone should examine the list of the fallen at the Australian War Memorial.

Dick0 · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Bicyclecamper wrote:
When I was in the army, just after Australia came out of the Vietnam War, our capability, to fight a war on our shores was 11 days, before we would be over run, now our capability is 39 hours.
It isn't that simple: we're not just going to see 1000 Chinese ships 2km from Darwin one day and think "Dam! I didn't expect that!".
They'll be a lengthy build-up; political issues, sabre rattling, then time for the Chinese (whoever) to assemble a fleet (planes or ships) and all this stuff will be picked up by the Five Eyes systems and, with luck, the Yanks and Brits et al will provide support which, hopefully, will make the Chinese think Oz isn't *really* that desirable after all.
It will never be possible for Australia to defend itself without early resort to nuclear weapons (which we don't have). Twenty five million people are *never* going to be able to defend a country of this size. I imagine the main plan is to withdraw south and establish a defence of the SE corner?
Of course, with the firearms restrictions in this country there is not much possibility of forming a decent resistance and one hell of a lot of people who don't know which end of a rifle goes bang. Occupying powers do prefer a compliant and helpless population.
Iana's point though is well made: I wonder how much of the defence force's kit comes out of China?

Yes you will.

That's what happened at Pearl Harbour!

Whenarewethere · Guru

Why would foreigners invade & blow up everything they own!

Australians are only the janitors.

Bicyclecamper · Guru

Australia is one big multi trillion dollar mine, you don't need cities for that.

oldbloke · Guru

dorian wrote:
What use are bullets and handguns against air power and a mechanised army? You would need RPGs and shoulder launched missiles, and that's something that even the most rabid gun nut wouldn't contemplate.

Doiian, please explain. What is a rabbit gun owner?

Firearms are very restricted and RPGs are only available to the ADF. I doubt even police have access.

oldbloke · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
dorian wrote:
What use are bullets and handguns against air power and a mechanised army?
Ask the Taliban, the Viet Cong, the Maquis, the IRA....
A resistance force does not have to defeat the occupiers it simply has to make life difficult for them... hopefully so difficult they'll decide this wide brown land is not worth the trouble and we're not going to do that with catapults which, by the way, are also illegal in Australia.

I'm seriously confused here. They went out well before button up boots.

oldbloke · Guru

Dorian,
Your obviously anti all firearm ownership in Au.
What should farmers do?
Let the dogs and foxes eat their lambs, let the foxes and dogs eat all of out native wildlife in our forests?
And when a foreign country arrives and tries to take our country, should we,
Turn our back?
Bend over?
Drop our dacks?
Provide them with a rubber?
Hand over the Vaseline?
Not squeal like a big?

Sure firearms, like many things (cars included) need to be managed. But the reality is that they are all over the planet. If we have none we are buggered. During both wars, the ADF considered hunters highly valued as snipers.

We are not the US. Suggest you watch less TV.

oldbloke · Guru

Anyone who thinks private citizens in this country can purchase one of these seriously needs to see a Dr.

iana · Guru

Ok my letter attached. But really we need to stop talking and start doing. I worked for local government for a time, and you would not believe the number of meetings that occur, with luck a decision is made. Any major offensive will be Hi-Teck, your standard hunting riffle will be worthless.

We need a trained nucleus of reserves, and even then will they be able to even drive a tank, without 5 years university training.

-- Edited by iana on Thursday 12th of August 2021 09:15:34 PM

-- Edited by iana on Thursday 12th of August 2021 09:16:19 PM

-- Edited by iana on Thursday 12th of August 2021 09:35:13 PM

Plain Truth · Guru

I certainly hope we can manufacture under garments ,when 200 million Chinese come down.We are going to need them

oldbloke · Guru

Plain Truth wrote:
I certainly hope we can manufacture under garments ,when 200 million Chinese come down.We are going to need them

Sorry mate. I think you mean condoms.

dorian · Guru

We shouldn't be relegating the defence of our country to a bunch of recreational killers. These people are seeking to legitimise their pathological gun fetish by disingenuously misrepresenting it as patriotic fervour.

Mike Harding · Guru

For Dorian:

Find a psychologist

iana · Guru

No point in becoming nasty, the aim of my thread was to highlight how dependent we in Australia have become on imports, shut down the trade routes, have our suppliers deny us the goods, and we are stuffed. And its about time something was done about that.

oldbloke · Guru

dorian wrote:
We shouldn't be relegating the defence of our country to a bunch of recreational killers. These people are seeking to legitimise their pathological gun fetish by disingenuously misrepresenting it as patriotic fervour.

Dorian, we often agree on matters, but not on this one.

The shooting sports are perhaps the most regulated of all sports in this country. In fact in 2019 there were only 4 accidental deaths, yet over 200 accidental drownings. I think these stat's from the ABS speak for them selves.

Your statement above mearly indicates your total ignorance on the matter.

If you disagree with what I'm saying, that's OK but I suggest you call 13 11 14

oldbloke · Guru

I'm going to the milk bar now. Buying 1/2" Brittish fully auto machine gun. 10,000 round's of ammo, an RPG and 100 rounds of ammo for that.

Hand grenades are on special at Coles so will drop in there and grab a crate while I'm out.

Two dozen condoms,, 1 bottle of olive oil and a very big roll of Alfoil.

Be prepared is my motto.

Just a tad of sarcasm there.

dorian · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
For Dorian:
Find a psychologist

I don't need to adjust my mind. The fault is with reality.

Izabarack · Guru

oldbloke wrote:

The shooting sports are perhaps the most regulated of all sports in this country. In fact in 2019 there were only 4 accidental deaths, yet over 200 accidental drownings. I think these stat's from the ABS speak for them selves.

Descriptive stats are of no use when raw numbers are presented to compare two activities without information of the frequency. Im sure a lot more people go swimming, for example, than people with guns go shooting. ABS stats do not speak for themselves, they always need interpretation before simple numbers can be used to compare the relative risk and frequency of different activities.