The Winston raw cells?

 

Whichever lithium it will have to come by sea due to aviation safety regulations, so be a bit patient.

When I follow the link to the battery page, I see a Russian version (probably because Aliexpress can't see my browser's locale setting), and I'm offered free shipping "in Australia via seller shipping". There's also a discount of around $5, if I understand correctly.

By the way, I'm no expert on solar, or lithium batteries, but I'd be wondering about any pitfalls when mixing old and new cells. Would the BMS account for this?

Edit:

You may not need a "box":

https://t1lithium.com.au/gallery.html

 

-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 12th of August 2021 01:31:39 PM

The prices I quoted are correct. The site is a little complicated and one needs to select this and that.

Muskat55: Yes it's hardly rocket science, just bolt four cells in series and attach a BMS (the BMS is where the clever stuff is).

Dicko1 wrote:

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but when you can buy a quality 120a/h lithium for $800 with 3-5 years warranty...why bother

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And what do you think that warranty is worth?

Hi , the main problem is the cells aren't matched resistance wise , sure you can balance them first then set them up , but unless theyre proper A grade cells direct from the manufacturer with the paperwork showing test results then don't believe what your buying is matched , unfortunately the resellers will tell you anything, but in most cases they'll be cells that at best , didn't quite make A grade specs , or worse , used etc , some people get lucky , some don't.....no free lunch with lithium cells , ask me l know lol
They're commonly know as commodity grade
If you want to learn more about the cells from China have a read over here
diysolarforum.com/forums/diy-lifepo4-battery-banks.22/

Btw , the studs / tapped holes are very shallow , about 6mm or so , and 6mm diameter so you have to be careful doing them up

Yeah he's pretty good to watch isn't he , it's definitely interesting to build your own stuff you just have to keep your expectations in check as your dealing with budget gear , so allow some give and take in what you get and you should be ok

Mike if you go ahead with those cells , maybe by a couple of spares , a know people buying large lots on that forum always buy extras to cover a dud cell , or to better match up in their strings as they match them as best as they can

Also note the casings are plastic wrapped as the metal conducts positive ? I think from memory , l put thin foam between the cells then compressed then with 32mm hardwood ends and plastic tubing covered all thread ( as the larger 280ah cells can bulge a bit under certain conditions, not sure about the smallaer 100ah cells )

I have been doing a lot of investigation into Lithium of late, and joined diysolarforum.com a few days ago after a search about a supplier in Queensland, first I would say building a battery is not just bolt 4 cells together and add a bms the batteries need to be balanced and if they are of different matching then they will never balance correctly, and also don't think that just because a dude on youtube can do it you can too, some of these guy are just for a better word wankers (sorry cant think of a better way of putting it) ok so why would you want to build your own? cost, experience, cause I can! ha ha.

I'm what I call a life learner (always trying to learn) I wanted to build my own battery a few years ago for my kayak using 18650s and it was recommended to me at the time not to bother as the savings weren't there and my understanding of Lithium at the time was minimal. however this didn't stop me looking into the setup procedures and so on, although I bought a 17.5Ah kayak specific battery.

Now I'm thinking the same do I build or buy? well I've been looking for a Lithium 12v (drop in) at a reasonable price but this is proving to be so frustrating that I'm seriously thinking time to build my own, but this is where it gets tricky, who and where do you buy the cells? they are made in China, given the current situation and our location most of the suppliers in China are using air freight at a cost of $500+ for 4 matched cells, cells vary depending on the amp rating but start at around $40 each for 100 Ah then you want a BMS $150+, do you use a balancer? $35 case? $35-120.

One of the local (aus) dealers is offering 100Ah 3.2v cells at $125 each, balancer $129-149 and finally box $15 now in taking this into consideration how much am I saving? If I buy a cheap ebay special then I loose, but if I buy from a reputable supplier higher end I could potentially save $500 or more and possibly have a better battery.

Why am I thinking about building my own? mainly because most of the batteries out there don't have the charge and discharge rating (C rating) of what I consider they should for their capacity and price, I know lead batteries have a very low C rating and most of the lithium are far higher but who knows down the track what amps I want to draw from my battery and as far as charging, I want the highest charge rate as possible if running solar to charge and I had 4-5 days of cloud.

Ok the supplier here in aus I've found that lead me to diysolarforum.com is bigweibattery.com.au who also sells complete battery systems which I thought were pretty good (no recommendation of affiliation) just one I came across while searching and found his pre made batteries interesting.

Any decision regarding DIY batteries will be potentially undermined by the uncertainty introduced by the plethora of crooks and thieves operating with impunity in a corrupt society. The only way we can trust anything that we buy from China is if a recognised foreign principal has been involved in the design, procurement, manufacturing, quality control and delivery of the product. Anything else is a lottery.

BTW, that cost is PER CELL

kesa32 wrote:

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Hi , bigweibattery as far as l can tell just uses commodity cells too l think as one of the pictures of the cells when l looked ages ago had the QR codes scratched off which is usually not a good sign , maybe things have changed , lm just going off casual observation from back then

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 Yeah nothing surprising there really, there are a lot of ebay sellers selling via po boxes with their own website and multiple business names to go with them, although I did like his drop in setups, however it's the contents that I'm most interested in. I am not in a big hurry to decide on my method to obtain a battery or 2, however if I decide on importing the delivery times are up to 3 months or more for sea and a massive amount for air. If you do the right checking and get the right data then you should end up getting the right part for the job. I still have checks to make on bigwei but I will still be looking at others too, the cells the guys on the diy forum seem to get the most are from a certain guy on alibaba who seems to stand buy what he sells and the thread about the 280Ah batteries is very long 40+ pages and so far most reports are good, but this is where the batteries are cheap but air freight is not. Link to thread https://diysolarforum.com/threads/just-place-new-order-on-alibaba-280ah-x-8-for-1260-00-usd-delivered-grade-a-to-canada.3387/  be prepared to sift through the plain comments fort the data.

Dicko1 wrote:

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Mike Harding wrote:

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Dicko1 wrote:

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but when you can buy a quality 120a/h lithium for $800 with 3-5 years warranty...why bother

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And what do you think that warranty is worth?

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 Probably a hell of a lot more than cheap arse chinese cells.

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And what do you think is inside many (all?) lithium batteries you will buy from an Australian supplier?

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Many thanks all for your input, I appreciate it.

Whilst I appreciate the reasons for cell matching I don't think it's as important for light load applications as it would be for heavy loads - and who knows how each cell's chemistry changes with time/use/temperature so those matched cells you bought may not be as well matched after six months?

Given that, ideally, one needs matched cells and cell balancing it does make lithiums seem a little complex and delicate whereas lead-acid is simple and can withstand much abuse so still has a place I think. I shall investigate more and mull upon matters, thanks again all :)

STRETCH ARMSTRONG wrote:

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I've been watching "DIY solar Power with Will Prowse" vids on YouTube. He builds and tests lots of stuff and uses a milk crate for his own battery build.

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Hi AA,

 

I watched many YouTube videos on this topic.

I looked into the whole idea of DIY LiFePO4 Batteries.

However, settled for 2x135AH Voltax (270AH). Cost, including delivery, was $950.00.

Do the sums for all the items required including connectors and internal wiring and the case and the time factor.

And if you are looking at 100AH only, will that be sufficient for your off the grid needs.

My 2000W (Rated) inverter now easily powers the Microwave, Toaster, Coffee, S/Press & Mixer appliances.

 

Also, a high quality solar charger/controller will be required for LiFePO4 charging.

 

Mike Harding wrote:

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Dick0 wrote:

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However, settled for 2x135AH Voltax (270AH). Cost, including delivery, was $950.00. 

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Oh dear :( Then you may not wish to know which "cheap arse chinese cells" are inside your battery:

YouTube Voltax battery tear-down

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Hi Mike,

Not sure how you determine cheap arse Chinese cells. I figure 99.9% of LiFePO4 batteries sold have Chinese cells, cheap arse or otherwise.

The battery tear down (if you can call it that) was made by an unqualified person who admits "He doesn't know much about Lithium batteries".

What LiFePO4 battery brand do you use Mike?

 

Yes, and I do agree that you do get what you pay for, in most instances.

I think most consumers balance Cost with Quality.

 

Some more Voltax info and opinions for viewing.

Voltax Lithium Battery - Outbax - YouTube

Solar Energy System: Some things are hot! Temperature Check Voltax 100aH LiFePO4 and cables - YouTube

 

There's a lot to be said for the good old agm's , easy to look after , simple operation ( no bms etc ) and cheap
I went lithium due to my batteries needed replacing anyway , and most importantly, the weight factor as we were right on the limit with the van ( 1800kg ) , going to lithium dropped weight about 70kg

Making the battery was interesting for me and worked out good for the money and you get to custom fit what you want , l think from memory l spent around $900 , that's with 200a bms , 4 x active balancing , fuses / cabling , Anderson plugs ( 1 triple 50a side mount , 1 x 175a flushmount and another single 50a flushmount ) and 300a islotion switch with precharge added for the inverter charger , plus 4 x 10mm all thread and nuts / spring washers and Bunnings tool box ( discounted due to missing a clip , which l didn't need , it was a wheeled model $30 was around $100 )
Other bits and pieces l had in the shed

My cells came with a 5 year " warranty " which lm going to test to see if they replace one of the cells ( no big deal if they don't )