Small generators and their quality or lack of it

Mike Harding · Guru

Small generators and their quality or lack of it

Possum3 · Guru

Mike sorry you've had rotten luck with your Honda generator - We've had a Honda 1000 since 1980 usually runs 4-6 hours nightly when we were using it for weekend/holidays, etc (seized motor once in 2010, Son forgot to put oil in) took head off tapped the the stuck piston with WD40 and timber dowel - oiled it up and is still going.
Bought a Honda 2000i in 2016 to run caravan air conditioner had no problems yet.

I guess it doesn't get a regular run like yours but; I imagine it's what day of the week made, and what QC the supplier of componentry in manufacture is that determines longevity.

Eaglemax · Guru

Hi Mike

I sympathise with your troubles. I built our house last year during winter western Victoria, a Genny was essential. I chose a Ozito brand with frame on wheels but lasted 2 weeks. Returned to the big green shed and replacement. Lasted 4 weeks, turned out by this time they were recalling all of them. I got a refund as I'd decided the next genny might as well be light enough to take with us in our caravan for cloudy days. Went to BCF and purchased a 1kva coleman (as you know everything in my van has to be lightweight) at 14kg wet. Has not faultered, wonderful genny solely used to recharge my AGM battery through a Victron charger..

You are correct when you suggest small gennys arent made for the use of caravanning, more like emergency power supply. I'm wondering if a manufacturer could make a small diesel generator combined with heater?

Anyway the mind never stops.

Tony

KJB · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Mike sorry you've had rotten luck with your Honda generator - We've had a Honda 1000 since 1980 usually runs 4-6 hours nightly when we were using it for weekend/holidays, etc (seized motor once in 2010, Son forgot to put oil in) took head off tapped the the stuck piston with WD40 and timber dowel - oiled it up and is still going.
Bought a Honda 2000i in 2016 to run caravan air conditioner had no problems yet.

I guess it doesn't get a regular run like yours but; I imagine it's what day of the week made, and what QC the supplier of componentry in manufacture is that determines longevity.

As a matter of interest - Pinellas in Florida, USA, make a Remote Shut off and Power On/Off Kit for both the Honda and Yamaha 2Kva/2.2Kva/2.4Kva models and also a Remote Start Kit for the 3Kva models. I have and use a Honda EU30i with the Pinellas Remote Start Kit and it has been excellent. (I do use the Auxillary battery on my vehicle as the Start Battery in preference to the "motorcycle " sized battery the Honda normally uses - this system works well. . The Gen set is used for short amounts of time and does not give the "motorcycle" battery a chance to fully charge. ) KB

Bicyclecamper · Guru

I have a 1kw, inverta Hyundai genni. Had it for 6 years. It's initial use was as a power outage backup, and I would run that up to 14 days at a time, but not overnight. Then have used it just to charge my battery in the van, for approx 6 weeks a year. It starts first pop, does need premium fuel, but or $399, I think I have got my moneys worth. I still do have my $99 2 stroke 750 watt genni from Bunnings, will never get rid of that it, is nearly 20 years old and is great to use as a back up for the back up.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Anyone thought of extra or seperate alternator fitted to engine via inverter ?

Jaahn · Guru

Hi Mike smile

Not a great history for sure. But as a comment only I guess that having been designed for light weight convenience and quietness the current crop of good brand gennies are compromised for high use applications. But that might be OK except for the premium price you are charged for the privilege of owning them here in Australia in particular. The cheap clones suffer from the usual quality problems and uncertainty of reliability. Not a winning situation. Where is Choice testing when you need them confuse

I believe that you might be better served by an old fashioned generator with a 5HP good brand engine with an Aussie rotating generator. They are heavier and noisier but you possibly can work around that a bit. Plenty of noise reduction suggestions on the web and some will work too. wink AS you camp remotely that may be OK. The bigger 5HP engine is not as stressed and easier serviced. Not much fancy electronics at the 240V end either. I would still recommend a quality brand engine and alternator. But they do last well under more continuous work. A 5HP generator/pump motor can run for many hours at a time, at a moderate loading for many years and be a reliable starter and runner on a farm etc.

I am just helping a friend get ready for this summer on his farm and getting a couple of pumps going out of the selection there. The popular firefighter pumps suffer from the same problems as the generators and the 'wet ends' can be minimum quality also. So making up one 6HP Honda with a two stage firefighter pump and another 6HP B&S IC with a new cast iron non self priming wet end for a second general pump for transfer work. Both are used engines but will give good service for years I anticipate and easy starting is a requirement too. hmm The cheap clones often have a short life with an unhappy end or do burn/leak oil from new till they will not last out a tank of fuel !

Jaahn

-- Edited by Jaahn on Saturday 25th of September 2021 11:24:33 AM

Mike Harding · Guru

Hi Jaahn

Thanks for your knowledgeable input.

I would go for a simple rotating machine like a shot but for their weight - something I am sure I don't need to tell you.

Bunnings do a couple of possibles:

DeWalt

Ryobi

But they are around 50kg dry weight. And the reality is I am nearer to 70 than 60 and although I could lift the 35kg of the Supercheap gen OK I think 55kg would really tax me and I'd probably injure myself sooner or later. At 19 years of age I worked for a builder and could sling 50kg bags of cement around without noticing :)

My current feeling is the best I can do is to go solar for everything except the A/C and microwave. Both of these items have a fairly low usage cycle with me so with luck I can cut gen use down to perhaps (guessing) 300 hours per year. At that level of use it may even be worth buying one of the $500 cheapies and hoping it lasts a year or two beyond its warranty?

When the Honda EU22i dies, as I'm sure it will, I may give one of the Yamahas a go but they'll need to do a lot better on pricing.

It really is a poor show that some of the major manufacturers in the world for this product will not produce a quality item.

Readers: unless you have *measured*, at least, 1500 hours use on your generator please don't tell me that *your* Honda has been "starting first pull" for 15 years, because I've had enough of confirmation bias about Honda generators.

-- Edited by Mike Harding on Saturday 25th of September 2021 06:31:26 PM

jeepnudger · Senior Member

I have honda 2000i would work for an hr or 2 and cut out seemed like out of fuel , took fuel cap off checked and found ok, tried to start yes no problem . This was repeated problem, back to service , twice no fault found. Decided i would start fiddling and leave fuel lid lightly screwed on would start easy and run for hrs. Tighten lid cut out after along run . Started checking fuel lid , yes breather hole seemed ok-- but tucked in under lever and washer to close when travelling so no fuel smell. Decided to make breather hole much larger and problem solved , was checking gen the other day, she started and ran for 6hrs ( i forgot was running) . I have a normal lid to put on gen when travelling no petrol odour.

Jaahn · Guru

Mike smile

Here is another solution that may assist your thinking !

http://www.christieengineering.com.au/products/12-volt-55-amp/

They make a couple of size motor/alternator units. While these will not run an aircon direct they maybe useful for a strategic change of direction.

I have one that I bought secondhand off Gumtree some years ago but I have seldom used it. It is easily carried and started. Not so noisy as a 5hp but not as quiet as the silent gennies. Expensive if bought new.

Another aternative as Kiwi says is to see what your vehicle alternator can do and fit or make a hand throttle to keep the revs up to say 1500-2000 for cooling and put the bonnet up. I do that occasionally with my MH in poor circumstances. (Just a piece of wood on the throttle). My alternator is 110A yours might be similar but you do need half an hour or more.

Jaahn

They have made all these models in the past but possibly some are discontinued now ? Probably too expensive compared to the cheap generators on the market.

-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 26th of September 2021 09:26:29 AM

-- Edited by Jaahn on Sunday 26th of September 2021 09:40:59 AM

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

I guess no matter how small the cost to make is about the same ? You dont really need less than 2kw anyway ! The generators smaller i find are just rubbish !! Besides 1200 watt you could near get away with good alternator and inverter with two good deep cycle batteries . Weight saving side possibly costs too ? If windings are done in alloy not copper to save weight ? There is half the problem !
Good quality, cheap and light doesnt mix !! Never seen a good lightweight sports car cheap wander why ??

Dick0 · Guru

There are very good quality No Brand inverter generaters out there...just do the research.

Three years ago I bought a Blackgen (no brand) 3.2/3.7kw, 150cc, electric & remote start. Wait for it...

Bought on Ebay from Melbourne supplier for $699.00 delivered.

It is used often and has not missed a beat. At the time several others, when they saw mine, ordered the unit also.

Have not seen this model advertised for a while.

It is now out of warranty.

If you are worried about brand names you may end up paying over twice for similar quality.

There are electric & remote start 3+kw units out there for around $1200.

smile smile smile

Jaahn · Guru

Dick0 wrote:
There are very good quality No Brand inverter generaters out there...just do the research.
Three years ago I bought a Blackgen (no brand) 3.2/3.7kw, 150cc, electric & remote start. Wait for it...
etc

Hi Dick smile

I am not trying to get an argument going here just a comment. What research can be done for a no name item. What can you glean from the ebay description, from the feedback etc. I would do whatever I could but am not able to sort the "wheat from the chaff" on the internet and forums. Just a bit slow I guess. confuse

I realise my small engine experience is a bit old now, so looking at tugs that are expensive vehicles needed to be reliable, who drives NO NAME tugs for example ? Even the NEW BRAND cheap tugs are a bit thin out on the road so obviously people who do their research are not comfortable with the cheap tugs on sale. What do you drive ? I do not drive one either ! aww

Jaahn

Mike Harding · Guru

Dick0 wrote:
Three years ago I bought a Blackgen (no brand) 3.2/3.7kw, 150cc, electric & remote start. Wait for it...
Bought on Ebay from Melbourne supplier for $699.00 delivered.
It is used often and has not missed a beat.

How do you go getting spares for your Blackgen?

How do you go for service data for your Blackgen.

Used often eh? Exactly how many hours has it done and what is a reasonable estimation of its average load? Because unless you can confidently supply both those measurements then all other assumptions as to its longevity are worthless.

There is a lot of Chinese crap in the cheap generator market and I think you now own $699 of it. Just do the research.

Mike Harding · Guru

Jaahn wrote:
http://www.christieengineering.com.au/products/12-volt-55-amp/
They make a couple of size motor/alternator units.

Christie have been around for some time and make a quality product but, damn, they do charge for it!

Trouble is I'd have to significantly increase battery capacity and fit and wire a *serious* 12V/240V inverter and it all gets too hard and messy.

I'll stay with my current plan of increasing solar to power all bar AC and microwave but I am always open to other suggestions.

I recently bought 400W of solar panels and a Victron 100V/30A controller and I think these should generally meet my needs although I may need another 200W panel for forest camping in Victoria in winter and/or a little help from the gen. from time to time.

dogbox · Guru

are the panels fixed or portable ?

Mike Harding · Guru

2 x 200W portable. I'm not a fan of fixed panels for this sort of application. My caravan has a fixed 120W panel and it's next to useless due to both angle to the sun and tree cover.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

Hi Mike,
My only experience with Honda was in the early 1970s when I had a small E300 generator - I bought it because it had a 12v 8A DC feed & on a trip from Ceduna to Darwin, down the West Coast, back to Ceduna, it saved my bacon several times - especially when my old Land Cruiser's battery collapsed.

I could never get it to run anything light on the 240vac feed for some reason & eventually the unit wouldn't start. On checking, I found a stuck valve, due to the stem being bent. What caused it, I don't know as it didn't get a lot of use. I gave it to a friend who got some use out of it after repair.

Perhaps engines are being built too light but are having high expectations put on them. My B&S powered lawnmower engine on the other hand has only had servicing done on it a few times & yet has given great service over 23 years. If it doesn't start on the 1st, 2nd pull - there is something wrong with it!!

Snail · Senior Member

Hi Mike,

At 1300hrs the motor may have been worn out being such a small motor. A car on the open road traveling at a average speed of 90kms an hour for 1300hrs would cover 117,000kms.

-- Edited by Snail on Monday 27th of September 2021 07:54:13 AM

Whenarewethere · Guru

Even our Nilfisk commercial vacuum only has a 1000 hour warranty on the motor. Whether the motor is electrical or liquid fuel it will only last so long, unless it is designed for continuous running.

dogbox · Guru

do you still have a single battery or have you up graded ?

Dick0 · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Dick0 wrote:
Three years ago I bought a Blackgen (no brand) 3.2/3.7kw, 150cc, electric & remote start. Wait for it...
Bought on Ebay from Melbourne supplier for $699.00 delivered.
It is used often and has not missed a beat.
How do you go getting spares for your Blackgen?
How do you go for service data for your Blackgen.
Used often eh? Exactly how many hours has it done and what is a reasonable estimation of its average load? Because unless you can confidently supply both those measurements then all other assumptions as to its longevity are worthless.
There is a lot of Chinese crap in the cheap generator market and I think you now own $699 of it. Just do the research.

Well, the answer for you is to buy the most expensive brand name which will give you the peace of mind your looking for in product reliability, quality and performance and spares.

Honda generators are manufactured in China.

Mike Harding · Guru

Snail wrote:
At 1300hrs the motor may have been worn out being such a small motor. A car on the open road traveling at a average speed of 90kms an hour for 1300hrs would cover 117,000kms.

I own a Hyudai Getz which I purchased new in 2011. It has a 1400cc engine and has covered 115,000km - now given to my son. It is still running very well and returning fuel consumption as well as it ever did, when I drive it it still feels it has the same kick as it did at 10,000km after I had run it in. It's only issue has been requiring a new HT coil and I see no reason it should not cover another 115,000km.

If Honda cannot make a 100cc engine that can handle more than 1300 hours then it's time they retired.

Mike Harding · Guru

dogbox wrote:
do you still have a single battery or have you up graded ?

Currently I am running just one 100Ah AGM (degraded to about 60Ah I reckon) but I have two 60Ah AGMs on order and will probably buy a lithium 100Ah before long.

The above is not entirely correct as the van has another 100Ah, my Amateur radio has its own 60Ah and the diesel heater runs from a dedicated 33Ah (I'm an electronics engineer - got to have something to fiddle with :) ).

I shall look at consolidating this mishmash as I become cleared how I wish to handle the whole living in the bush and making enough electricity thing. Your, and others, further thoughts much appreciated.

Snail · Senior Member

Hi Mike,

Honda Generators can not be compared to a Hyudai Getz, it is a 99cc air cooled motor with an oil capacity of 0.4ltr. The motor runs at between 3000 to 5000rpm with Eco throttle turned off the motor runs at between 4300 and 5000rpm. Hard work for a very small motor.

Mike Harding · Guru

Hyundai Getzs weigh a bit more than Honda generators too.

Dick0 · Guru

Mike, here's one you may wish to follow up for curiosity.

An example of a gennie that ticks most boxes.

EFI fuel delivery, powerful, sine-wave, spare parts availability, very competitive price etc. etc.

A simple call to the supplier quizzing tech specs, warranty, spares availability and any other concerns is part of my research path.

German brand but most probably manufactured in China. Supplier could probably clarify.

EXTRA10%OFFBaumr-AG Inverter Generator 3.7kW Max 3.2kW Rated Portable 9348948015825 | eBay

I would say most of the gennies probably come out of the same China factory.

This link is the same product as above but different generic brand.

Many others like this. Same parts may fit all these gennies. My experience is parts supply should not be a problem.

Quality? For you to determine.

EXTRA10%OFFGENFORCE Inverter Generator 3.7kW Max 3.2kW Rated Portable 9348948019847 | eBay

-- Edited by Dick0 on Tuesday 28th of September 2021 10:51:22 AM

Kooroorinya Kelpie · Newbie

I have owned many portable gennie's, from the old heavyweight Dunlites, Hondas and for the last 5 years a Kings 2 kVA. The Dunlites are out by virtue of the weight, Honda are gone by virtue of the price and the King's is in as it has never missed a beat in over 700 hours of run time. I change the oil - brand name sae 50/20 - after ever trip and , early on, fitted an online fuel filter because it is very easy to get crud in the petrol. My view is most are made in China and reputable makes have better quality control.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Keep in mind to buy any spares ? You could easy buy another ? I sent a chainsaw in for service ! The repaires was more than replacement! Nice a holes ! They pulled it apart when it had no spark ! Why pull carb & engine down ?

tempestv8 · Veteran Member

Whilst looking around at other brands of generators recently, I came across the Cromtech Outback 2400W inverter generator.

What surprised me was that it was rated at 52 dB at 1/4 load from 7 meters. This makes the generator as quiet as the much touted Honda EU22i which has the same decibels at 1/4 load.

However this is where it gets interesting. The Cromtech rated continuous power output is 2100 Watts vs the Honda's 1800 Watt. An extra 300 Watts reserve is pretty handy to have up one's sleeve.

The Cromtech is also lighter at 19.8 kg vs the Honda's 21 kg

Fuel tank 5.0 litre vs 3.6 litre

As an occasional use generator for camping purposes, the Cromtech seems to be a really nice alternative, at sub $1000 compared to double the price for the Honda.

Seems like a no brainer to me for the caravan owner looking for a small, portable inverter generator which can run the aircon easily.

-- Edited by tempestv8 on Saturday 2nd of October 2021 12:05:05 AM

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