Gen Y hitch

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

Gen Y hitch

PeterD · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
What am I missing? I looked again but find it difficult to see much of a benefit. Sure it would dampen the bumps a little. But the arms that allow movement are very short and as far as I can see would only reduce movement of the drawbar by 10-15mm at the most. Back at the caravan body the difference would be very small. So, how would this help?

These devices are of little benefit on the style of vehicle most of us use for van towing. In general, they are not aimed at us. The larger serious load carrying trucks are a different matter. They are very rough on the draw bars of caravans. These hitches are designed to suppress the vibrations the trucks impart on our vans. Their total movement may appear small but it is sufficient to isolate the vibrations in the tail of heavy trucks. You may note that the delivery trucks that tow a van and carry a couple on their flat-tops have them fitted to protect the towed van.

oldbloke · Guru

Just a response to a few comments by Yobarr previously.

Today I weighed my 600lb HR WDH Hitch. With the ball attached 14.2 kg. I would suggest adding the bars would be 5kg at most. So a close estimate 19kg, nothing like the exaggerated 40kg mentioned above.

Once again 40kg is an exaggeration. Perhaps an error?

3.1.JPG

I find it interesting that you suddenly now talk as if it's (the chart as you call it) a guide for newbies, when in the past you have asserted or strongly suggested that it was a technical or precise document. I have in the past said many times that it needs to be treated as a "guide" only.

Some users and obviously yourself may think that HR are suggesting TBW is "disappearing", but it does not do that at all. They are simply attempting to give an example of how the WDH works and the weight is distributed. Again you make the many times repeated statement "WDH does NOT change towball weight. Never has. Never will." This is a suggestion that the "chart" is not correct.

I've got news for you, everyone understands (and I always have) that gravity does not change and the the TB coupling is still pushing down on the tow ball and the weight is then distributed from the tugs rear axle through the vehicle(s) to the front tug axles and the van axles. However you assert that the HR document "confuses" newbies. I believe in the past you have said it was "miss leading" I simply believe it s correct.

Yabarr, to support/prove your argument instead of repeating the above statement would you please edit the document to show the correct weights including where the TBW(s) should be shown and perhaps we will all learn something? I have attached it for your convenience.

yobarr · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
Just a response to a few comments by Yobarr previously.

Today I weighed my 600lb HR WDH Hitch. With the ball attached 14.2 kg. I would suggest adding the bars would be 5kg at most. So a close estimate 19kg, nothing like the exaggerated 40kg mentioned above.

Once again 40kg is an exaggeration. Perhaps an error?

I find it interesting that you suddenly now talk as if it's (the chart as you call it) a guide for newbies, when in the past you have asserted or strongly suggested that it was a technical or precise document. I have in the past said many times that it needs to be treated as a "guide" only.
Some users and obviously yourself may think that HR are suggesting TBW is "disappearing", but it does not do that at all. They are simply attempting to give an example of how the WDH works and the weight is distributed. Again you make the many times repeated statement "WDH does NOT change towball weight. Never has. Never will." This is a suggestion that the "chart" is not correct.
I've got news for you, everyone understands (and I always have) that gravity does not change and the the TB coupling is still pushing down on the tow ball and the weight is then distributed from the tugs rear axle through the vehicle(s) to the front tug axles and the van axles. However you assert that the HR document "confuses" newbies. I believe in the past you have said it was "miss leading" I simply believe it s correct.

Yabarr, to support/prove your argument instead of repeating the above statement would you please edit the document to show the correct weights including where the TBW(s) should be shown and perhaps we will all learn something? I have attached it for your convenience.

Your repeated pathetic and unsuccessful efforts to discredit me always end up as abject failures,so could I suggest that instead of posting about something you clearly do not,or more likely do not want to understand that you instead research some of the many posts that I have made over the years on the subject,where the basics and the physics are clearly outlined and explained. Several members who initially ridiculed my assertions now have learned that I was correct,and have admitted such. Seems that others are taking an inordinate amount of time to understand the basic physics, and instead of trying to learn,go off on a tangent with their own half-baked theories.My posts are made in an effort to help both a newbie who is keen to learn,and an old bloke who may be set in his ways,to understand weights,but when other,perhaps well meaning people post contrary but incorrect information,it just confuses.Over the years I have helped people to understand their weights,both by PM and by personal visits to their homes.But,like anybody,you are entitled to an opinion,no matter how misguided you may be.But never give up.One day you may be right! Cheers

P.S You may like to research "Shooting the messenger".

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 07:18:43 PM

oldbloke · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
Just a response to a few comments by Yobarr previously.

Today I weighed my 600lb HR WDH Hitch. With the ball attached 14.2 kg. I would suggest adding the bars would be 5kg at most. So a close estimate 19kg, nothing like the exaggerated 40kg mentioned above.

Once again 40kg is an exaggeration. Perhaps an error?

I find it interesting that you suddenly now talk as if it's (the chart as you call it) a guide for newbies, when in the past you have asserted or strongly suggested that it was a technical or precise document. I have in the past said many times that it needs to be treated as a "guide" only.
Some users and obviously yourself may think that HR are suggesting TBW is "disappearing", but it does not do that at all. They are simply attempting to give an example of how the WDH works and the weight is distributed. Again you make the many times repeated statement "WDH does NOT change towball weight. Never has. Never will." This is a suggestion that the "chart" is not correct.
I've got news for you, everyone understands (and I always have) that gravity does not change and the the TB coupling is still pushing down on the tow ball and the weight is then distributed from the tugs rear axle through the vehicle(s) to the front tug axles and the van axles. However you assert that the HR document "confuses" newbies. I believe in the past you have said it was "miss leading" I simply believe it s correct.

Yabarr, to support/prove your argument instead of repeating the above statement would you please edit the document to show the correct weights including where the TBW(s) should be shown and perhaps we will all learn something? I have attached it for your convenience.

Come on yobarr. Is the document correct or miss leading? If it's miss leading because "TBW never ever changes" please change it so that it is correct. (perhaps add the TBW) Nobody is discrediting you, just change the chart so the weights are correct and post it so we can all learn. As I said earlier, it's attached for your convenience.

-- Edited by oldbloke on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 07:46:10 PM

Are We Lost · Guru

My crsytal ball tells me this thread is headed for closure if you two keep ribbing each other.

yobarr · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Just a response to a few comments by Yobarr previously.

Today I weighed my 600lb HR WDH Hitch. With the ball attached 14.2 kg. I would suggest adding the bars would be 5kg at most. So a close estimate 19kg, nothing like the exaggerated 40kg mentioned above.

Once again 40kg is an exaggeration. Perhaps an error?

I find it interesting that you suddenly now talk as if it's (the chart as you call it) a guide for newbies, when in the past you have asserted or strongly suggested that it was a technical or precise document. I have in the past said many times that it needs to be treated as a "guide" only.
Some users and obviously yourself may think that HR are suggesting TBW is "disappearing", but it does not do that at all. They are simply attempting to give an example of how the WDH works and the weight is distributed. Again you make the many times repeated statement "WDH does NOT change towball weight. Never has. Never will." This is a suggestion that the "chart" is not correct.
I've got news for you, everyone understands (and I always have) that gravity does not change and the the TB coupling is still pushing down on the tow ball and the weight is then distributed from the tugs rear axle through the vehicle(s) to the front tug axles and the van axles. However you assert that the HR document "confuses" newbies. I believe in the past you have said it was "miss leading" I simply believe it s correct.

Yabarr, to support/prove your argument instead of repeating the above statement would you please edit the document to show the correct weights including where the TBW(s) should be shown and perhaps we will all learn something? I have attached it for your convenience.
Come on yobarr. Nobody is trying to Is the document correct or miss leading? If it's miss leading because "TBW never ever changes" please change it so that it is correct. ( perhaps add the TBW) Nobody is discrediting you, just change the chart so the weights are correct so we can all learn.

I'll leave that all up to you,as when it comes to weights etc you seem to know lots of nothing,or more likely you take great pleasure in simply being contrary. Over the last few years I have spent many long hours researching and successfully compiling pages of useful data for the benefit of those members who wish to learn.Everything concerning WDHs is explained in great detail,and has helped fellow members,such as Brenda and Alan,to understand. Could I respectfully suggest that you use the "search" feature on the top of this page to access my posts,instead of wasting more of my time? Rote learning seems not to have worked. As I have told you previously,everything you might want to learn about weights and how a WDH works can be found there.Good luck with becoming enlightened. Cheers

P.S Perhaps the word you seek is "misleading"?

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 08:01:55 PM

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
My crsytal ball tells me this thread is headed for closure if you two keep ribbing each other.

Hi Stephen.That would be unfortunate,but unfortunately no matter how many ways I clearly explain the workings of a WDH,and how it affects weights etc some still do not,or do not want to understand.That is their right,but I feel morally obliged to correct their incorrect contrary assertions so that fellow members are not mislead. Many hours have been spent compiling pages of information for the benefit of fellow members,but my efforts are sometimes sabotaged.C'est la vie.Cheers

Dougwe · Chief one feather

We won't find these two arguing over weights.

oldbloke · Guru

yobarr wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
oldbloke wrote:
Just a response to a few comments by Yobarr previously.

Today I weighed my 600lb HR WDH Hitch. With the ball attached 14.2 kg. I would suggest adding the bars would be 5kg at most. So a close estimate 19kg, nothing like the exaggerated 40kg mentioned above.

Once again 40kg is an exaggeration. Perhaps an error?

I find it interesting that you suddenly now talk as if it's (the chart as you call it) a guide for newbies, when in the past you have asserted or strongly suggested that it was a technical or precise document. I have in the past said many times that it needs to be treated as a "guide" only.
Some users and obviously yourself may think that HR are suggesting TBW is "disappearing", but it does not do that at all. They are simply attempting to give an example of how the WDH works and the weight is distributed. Again you make the many times repeated statement "WDH does NOT change towball weight. Never has. Never will." This is a suggestion that the "chart" is not correct.
I've got news for you, everyone understands (and I always have) that gravity does not change and the the TB coupling is still pushing down on the tow ball and the weight is then distributed from the tugs rear axle through the vehicle(s) to the front tug axles and the van axles. However you assert that the HR document "confuses" newbies. I believe in the past you have said it was "miss leading" I simply believe it s correct.

Yabarr, to support/prove your argument instead of repeating the above statement would you please edit the document to show the correct weights including where the TBW(s) should be shown and perhaps we will all learn something? I have attached it for your convenience.
Come on yobarr. Nobody is trying to Is the document correct or miss leading? If it's miss leading because "TBW never ever changes" please change it so that it is correct. ( perhaps add the TBW) Nobody is discrediting you, just change the chart so the weights are correct so we can all learn.
I'll leave that all up to you,as when it comes to weights etc you seem to know lots of nothing,or more likely you take great pleasure in simply being contrary. Over the last few years I have spent many long hours researching and successfully compiling pages of useful data for the benefit of those members who wish to learn.Everything concerning WDHs is explained in great detail,and has helped fellow members,such as Brenda and Alan,to understand. Could I respectfully suggest that you use the "search" feature on the top of this page to access my posts,instead of wasting more of my time? Rote learning seems not to have worked. As I have told you previously,everything you might want to learn about weights and how a WDH works can be found there.Good luck with becoming enlightened. Cheers
P.S Perhaps the word you seek is "misleading"?

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 19th of January 2022 08:01:55 PM

"P.S Perhaps the word you seek is "misleading"? Is that the best you can do? Yobarr look in the mirror. USE your SPACE BAR, mate.

And as expected, after all of the BS about the "chart" being "misleading" & "confusing" you refuse to correct it. WHY? Come on show us where the weights are WRONG.

OR, is it going to be "crickets". We can only come to the conclusion that if you do not make any changes that the HR "chart" it is 100% CORRECT. As I have said for a very long time but you have constantly denied.

Will it be "crickets"?

Are We Lost · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:
My crsytal ball tells me this thread is headed for closure if you two keep ribbing each other.
Hi Stephen.That would be unfortunate,but unfortunately no matter how many ways I clearly explain the workings of a WDH,and how it affects weights etc some still do not,or do not want to understand.That is their right,but I feel morally obliged to correct their incorrect contrary assertions so that fellow members are not mislead. Many hours have been spent compiling pages of information for the benefit of fellow members,but my efforts are sometimes sabotaged.C'est la vie.Cheers

Into the maelstrom I go .......

You could include me amongst those who disagrees with some of your views. I share most of your views on weights, weight distribution and safe towing limits. But not on WDH. I am a believer and you are not.

Apart from that, I think what a few readers find annoying is the repetition of what you have previously posted, and what others have said, with increasing font sizes and prolific use of red. Just because some expert says something does not mean it is true. Let those statements be challenged with logic. And of course then there are the slanging matches.

Can you come up with real "on the road" physical examples rather than just the static weights when parked on a weighbridge? Just like a performance tune does nothing when parked in the driveway, a WDH does nothing until you are on the open road. That is what counts.

I intend to open a new thread on exactly that subject in the next week or two, but not continue here on this thread. Let's not derail this one any more. I just have to work out the best way to present my thoughts. Will you accept the challenge?

Oldbloke, I'm giving you a serve as well. Apart from the slanging match how about coming up with something that explains your views and how they differ, and not just pick holes.

I guess that's two less cards I'm going to get next Christmas.

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:
My crsytal ball tells me this thread is headed for closure if you two keep ribbing each other.
Hi Stephen.That would be unfortunate,but unfortunately no matter how many ways I clearly explain the workings of a WDH,and how it affects weights etc some still do not,or do not want to understand.That is their right,but I feel morally obliged to correct their incorrect contrary assertions so that fellow members are not mislead. Many hours have been spent compiling pages of information for the benefit of fellow members,but my efforts are sometimes sabotaged.C'est la vie.Cheers

Into the maelstrom I go .......
You could include me amongst those who disagrees with some of your views. I share most of your views on weights, weight distribution and safe towing limits. But not on WDH. I am a believer and you are not.
Apart from that, I think what a few readers find annoying is the repetition of what you have previously posted, and what others have said, with increasing font sizes and prolific use of red. Just because some expert says something does not mean it is true. Let those statements be challenged with logic. And of course then there are the slanging matches.
Can you come up with real "on the road" physical examples rather than just the static weights when parked on a weighbridge? Just like a performance tune does nothing when parked in the driveway, a WDH does nothing until you are on the open road. That is what counts.
I intend to open a new thread on exactly that subject in the next week or two, but not continue here on this thread. Let's not derail this one any more. I just have to work out the best way to present my thoughts. Will you accept the challenge?
Oldbloke, I'm giving you a serve as well. Apart from the slanging match how about coming up with something that explains your views and how they differ, and not just pick holes.
I guess that's two less cards I'm going to get next Christmas.

Hi Stephen.Thankyou for sharing your thoughts.Couple of points to consuder.The reason that I repeat stuff is so that newbies,who obviously have not seen my posts, may benefit from my knowledge.For others who seem not to understand,it is a form of rote learning.In reply to your comment about "increasing font size and prolific use of red" I would like to point out that it would probably be over a year since I have used coloured text,other than bold black,and I don't recall using bigger text? Happy to be corrected on these points,but the reason that I sometimes use bold text is to draw attention to salient points,as experience shows that although many people undoubtedly "look at" my posts they do not actually "read" them.Many times I have had to defend my comments because they had not actually been read.Again I will say that,in many cases,a WDH is used in an effort to make a car do things for which it was not designed. All my reasons for this comment have been extensively shown in previous posts.Again,thanks for this post,and you can be assured that I always will offer best xmas wishes.No need to sulk,is there? Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 20th of January 2022 10:16:17 AM

oldbloke · Guru

In response to comments above. Just thought, like you help other members I thought I would assist you with your spelling and grammar. ;)

Correction - Copy.JPG

So much for no large red writing. ;)

Red Text.JPG

Well, its been a couple of days and Im still waiting for a response regarding yobarr correcting the of the HR chart which has I might add, has EXAMPLE printed on it. So much for that?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Re72di5phM0

Cheers

oldbloke · Guru

OB Capture.JPG

Thanks, Are we lost.

Regarding my opinion.

IMO all cars and Utes have good and bad points. (pros and cons) This has been the case since the T model Ford. For example a ute that may be great at towing a 24 van will Im sure ride like a truck and eat fuel for breakfast when used by mum and the kids as a run around. On the other hand the average ute would be a better compromise and comfortably tow a 2.5t van and not be so fuel hungry and provides a comfortable ride for mum and the kids. (its called compromise) There are plenty of vans out there happily being towed by all sorts of cars/utes.

And I think most reasonably intelligent members knows that. What I dont want to read is constant ramblings/bragging about how good my ute is and others are rubbish. (this applies to all van related gear actually) This "mine is bigger than yours" is school kid stuff. People who do this constantly have problems with their own self worth. Perhaps not, perhaps just think they are better than anyone else or are arrogant. It also indicates they do not understand (or dont want to) the above regarding compromise.

WDHs & Upgrades.

Again there are pros and cons.

WDH

These weigh about 18-20 kg. (I weighed mine)

Its well known that used for their intended purpose that they:

Distribute some weight from rear axle to the front steering axles and the van axle (s).

Some claim that in using a WDH they are attempting to make a tug do what it was never intended to do. Mmmmm problem with that is some tug makers recommend their use. But Im not a transport design engineer. But they have been successfully used for many years.

Some points

- They are not overly expensive, and therefore very popular for part time van users.

- They allow you to carry additional weight

- Vans tow better/safer/level

- If you sell the tug, you may still retain the WDH

- You need to set them up initially

- They are not convenient.

Up Grades

These weigh, well I dont know but at a guess 15kg. (heavy duty springs and shockers, in some case front axles as well) They are also expensive compared to a WDH.

Tug makers do not generally recommend upgrades to my knowledge but perhaps I could be enlightened. In fact I would imagine that if they were capable of some of these loads that makers would make a few changes so the upgrades were not required, and make it happen on the production line, that would be pretty cheap. And a selling point. In any case the process will not distribute weight from the rear axle to the front.

- The front still loses some weight due to the very heavy TBW. Each tug will vary.

- The chassis will be under additional stresses.

- They are very costly.

- You cannot use it in another tug.

- Van tows better/safer/level

- Its more convenient than a WDH

- GVM is increased

- GCM is increased

Frankly IMO if a WDH will not do the job, and the tug needs an upgrade, buy a small truck.

But then perhaps it's just horses for courses.

You have my opinion. smile

Rob Driver · Guru

Hi oldbloke

I am over arguing WDH and Weights but I do note that Toyota supply as a genuine accessory, a WDH kit to suit the 70 series.

If I remember back a while another member contacted HR and produced that very chart and an explanation.

The post resulted in the same reaction as you have received above. I think it may have gone on to be hit with the Admins padlock.

I also noted that a 70 series came into a park I was staying before Xmas and the owner let me measure the Tow Ball Overhang and compared to a 200 series in the next camp there was a difference of 35 mm. The 70 was shorter. 35 mm would make very little difference in the scheme of being overweight on the tow ball or the rear axle.
Exaggerating figures confuses the debate but offers no genuine help to anyone setting up a vehicle.

Good luck with getting an answer to your question.

oldbloke · Guru

Thx for your comments Rob.

Mmmm 35mmm. Lots
Out of curiosity I just measured the difference between my normal hitch and the WDH. The ball extends a massive 70mm further using the WDH. A massive distance.

Rob Driver · Guru

Yes, we are only talking close to the diameter of the tow ball. My first van had a WDH that did not change the tow ball overhang at all.

Splitting hairs only confuses the issue. A weighbridge does not lie.

Bobdown · Guru

Oldbloke, there are lots of us WDH users out there who tow safely, level and not overweight ( the van, not me) and have been for years and years.

Good luck waiting for an answer, hate to see you hanging by the short and curlys though........... disbelief smile

Cheers Bob

oldbloke · Guru

Luckily I'm a patient man. yawn

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Now that we all know weight is transferred from back to front of tow vehicle when using WDH while towing, we can now have our gene on the Aframe.

PeterD · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
If I remember back a while another member contacted HR and produced that very chart and an explanation.

That chart did not come direct from Hayman Reese. It is the results of one of the demonstrations given by Hayman Reese at a Victorian caravan show many years ago when the Vic shows were held at Calder (it think.) It was noted by Tom Olthoff and published in one of his articles in Caravan World. I contacted him sometime in the 2000s and he sent that chart to me.

Back in the days that Tom wrote the article, HR used to attend the Melbourne shows and demonstrate the way the WDH affected the loaded weights on the tug when it was installed. They ceased the demonstrations using the analogue scales that were used way back then sometime after that demo. Around 10 years or more ago they reintroduced those demonstrations at many of the caravan shows using digital equipment and a Jayco caravan. I have seen them a few times at the Sydney show. The weight readings from their equipment reflected the results in the old table.

You may note in the old table how the weights on the van's axles varied between the three lots of weighing. I got back to Tom and asked if that was because the trailer had non load sharing suspension. He confirmed that was the case.

(Remember Tom? he used to be the technical expert in both Caravan World and Caravan and Motorhome magazines. He was given the flick from both because he published some truths that some advertisers did not like.)

Rob Driver · Guru

PeterD wrote:
Rob Driver wrote:
If I remember back a while another member contacted HR and produced that very chart and an explanation.
That chart did not come direct from Hayman Reese. It is the results of one of the demonstrations given by Hayman Reese at a Victorian caravan show many years ago when the Vic shows were held at Calder (it think.) It was noted by Tom Olthoff and published in one of his articles in Caravan World. I contacted him sometime in the 2000s and he sent that chart to me.
Back in the days that Tom wrote the article, HR used to attend the Melbourne shows and demonstrate the way the WDH affected the loaded weights on the tug when it was installed. They ceased the demonstrations using the analogue scales that were used way back then sometime after that demo. Around 10 years or more ago they reintroduced those demonstrations at many of the caravan shows using digital equipment and a Jayco caravan. I have seen them a few times at the Sydney show. The weight readings from their equipment reflected the results in the old table.
You may note in the old table how the weights on the van's axles varied between the three lots of weighing. I got back to Tom and asked if that was because the trailer had non load sharing suspension. He confirmed that was the case.
(Remember Tom? he used to be the technical expert in both Caravan World and Caravan and Motorhome magazines. He was given the flick from both because he published some truths that some advertisers did not like.)

Thank you for that info Peter.

The first time I had seen that chart was in this forum and it was posted by a member on here. I dont know where he got the info, I thought he said he spoke to someone at HR who gave him a link, but I am not sure.
I dont remember Tom but I am sure many of us would have read his articles.

I would imagine promoting the use of a WDH would be controversial at any time or in any publication.

Here is a link to the topic

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t67263123/towing-limitations-discussed/?page=6&sort=oldestFirst

Page 6 and 7 contain the charts

The second time it was posted was within this topic.

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t68076913/wdh-air-bags-andor-increased-rear-spring-capacity/?page=2&sort=oldestFirst

Both topics are epic tales.

In this topic it has come up, yet again.

I am afraid that it is possible that the questions will never be answered to the satisfaction of either side.

This topic will return again and again, I am sure, but as I said only a couple of posts above, I am over arguing Weights and WDH benefits.

I will just sit back and read others thoughts. biggrin

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Saturday 22nd of January 2022 07:34:45 PM

yobarr · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Now that we all know weight is transferred from back to front of tow vehicle when using WDH while towing, we can now have our gene on the Aframe.

Doug,acknowledging your enviable ability to find humour in almost any situation,I suspect that you're joking? If not,you're dreaming as a WDH does not change towball weight,which will only increase if you put a generator on the the 'A' frame.Cheers

oldbloke · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
Now that we all know weight is transferred from back to front of tow vehicle when using WDH while towing, we can now have our gene on the Aframe.

Lol. Could I suggest, if you remove the muffler it will save a massive amount of weight. biggrin

yobarr · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
Hi oldbloke

I am over arguing WDH and Weights but I do note that Toyota supply as a genuine accessory, a WDH kit to suit the 70 series.

If I remember back a while another member contacted HR and produced that very chart and an explanation.

The post resulted in the same reaction as you have received above. I think it may have gone on to be hit with the Admins padlock.

I also noted that a 70 series came into a park I was staying before Xmas and the owner let me measure the Tow Ball Overhang and compared to a 200 series in the next camp there was a difference of 35 mm. The 70 was shorter. 35 mm would make very little difference in the scheme of being overweight on the tow ball or the rear axle.
Exaggerating figures confuses the debate but offers no genuine help to anyone setting up a vehicle.

Good luck with getting an answer to your question.

Hi Rob.Whilst I don't believe your overhang figures are accurate,even if they are,the short Rs wheelbase on an LC200 increases the extra weight applied to the rear axle by towball weight.In additiion the almost obligatory use of a WDH on that vehicle will increase TBO,further increasing extra weight applied to the car's rear axle,and then we get the fashionable McHitch,where TBO goes through the roof,figuratively speaking.The 79 with a 2300kg rear axle needs none of these gimmicks.The wheelbase is 330mm greater than that of an LC200. Cheers

The photo shows both the above mentioned devices being used.Stupidity in the extreme,with massive (that word again) increase in weight applied to car's rear axle,as well as introducing ridiculous amounts of yaw.Blind leading the blind comes to mind.

Rob Driver · Guru

Rob Driver wrote

Hi oldbloke

I am over arguing WDH and Weights.

oldbloke · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
Rob Driver wrote

Hi oldbloke

I am over arguing WDH and Weights.

Just for you Rob. You need it. smile

https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/f453441/just-joking/

yobarr · Guru

Perhaps I have been conspicuous by my absence,but for the last couple of days I have been busy gathering data and compiling a list of facts to help yet another couple of responsible members who have contacted me by PM,seeking help with their vehicles and their weights.They are over the online arguing by some who know little,understand less and seemingly have no interest in learning? To quote one of the latest members to contact me "I do not want to start a hornet's nest again,and have a heated debate online.I know that you have a good understanding of this issue." Nothing I have ever posted cannot be proven to be true,but sometimes I feel that I am beating my head against a brick wall.Many members have sent PMs seeking advice,thanking me profusely when this has been offered,and I have both visited members homes and had phone conversations to help them. Everybody is entitled to an opinion,no matter how misguided they may be,but when it comes to weights there is no room for opinion.Your weights are either right,or they are wrong.There is no middle ground.Cheers

oldbloke · Guru

I think an image of a McHitch being used with a WDH hitch is simply a red herring. Neither are being used as intended.

Radar · Guru

yobarr wrote:

Perhaps I have been conspicuous by my absence,but for the last couple of days I have been busy gathering data and compiling a list of facts to help yet another couple of responsible members who have contacted me by PM,seeking help with their vehicles and their weights.They are over the online arguing by some who know little,understand less and seemingly have no interest in learning? To quote one of the latest members to contact me "I do not want to start a hornet's nest again,and have a heated debate online.I know that you have a good understanding of this issue." Nothing I have ever posted cannot be proven to be true,but sometimes I feel that I am beating my head against a brick wall.Many members have sent PMs seeking advice,thanking me profusely when this has been offered,and I have both visited members homes and had phone conversations to help them. Everybody is entitled to an opinion,no matter how misguided they may be,but when it comes to weights there is no room for opinion.Your weights are either right,or they are wrong.There is no middle ground.Cheers

Yobarr personnally What I think is not necessarily worth printing.

Go back to driving road trains.

-- Edited by Radar on Saturday 22nd of January 2022 08:24:00 PM