Hi,
New to the good life so please be gentle.
We have a new (12 months) Jayco 17.55 poptop. After several small local trips now touring Aus. We've done about 5000km max since new. We have just noticed the rear tyre on one side is virtually bald.
All other tyres are as expected. Tyre pressures are as recommended when we picked it up and we check regularly. It's been towing like a dream.
I've read most of the posts relating to tyre wear and can't find one specific to dual axle with only one tyre an issue.
Off to the Jayco dealer for a chat today so any advice beforehand would be appreciated.
DawnieB
Was that tyre from a different batch. Look at the date wwyy (week year). Maybe that one was from China, it's indicated on the tyre. Was is off or on side, front rear, may give a clue.
You could have a bent axle from new, stranger things happen.
__________________
Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!
50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.
I would check the distance between the front tyre and the rear, and compare with the other side, same height, a rough/crude check but may help determine the issue.
My favourite hobbyhorse... My guess is that you have an axle which was misaligned from new - probably not bent in service. Firstly, check the camber of the wheel (the amount which the wheel leans in or out at the top). If it is vertical, as it should be, then the wheel is tracking crooked. See below for my saga about bent axles...
I have a Jayco poptop caravan, made in 1999. It is a single axle van, 16.5 ft long. In 18000 km, it wore out 2 tyres. I was in Esperance when I noticed the wear, and contacted, a Jayco dealer in Perth who wasn't interested. I bought a new tyre, fitted the spare and drove back hoe to Cooma NSW. I measured the alignment of the wheels and found that the tyres had 10 mm toe-out ie the distance between the tread centres were 10 mm wider at the front than the rear of the tyres. I contacted Jayco because the van was less than 2 years old and therefore still under their warranty. After many attempts to get a response, I removed the axle from the van, put it into my trailer and took it to the Jayco head office. After some discussion, I found that Jayco warranty covers THEIR work only - not the stuff that they buy in eg fridge, power supply, gas stove and, in my case, axles and wheels...
When I jacked the caravan to remove the axle, I noted that the left side chassis rail was dented by the U bolt on the axle. I checked the other side, and found that the axle was mounted about 25 mm offset - there was plenty of clearance on the R side. I took photos of the setup and sent them to Jayco asking what they were going to do about the misaligned axle and the tyre wear etc. As mentioned above, I got no response hence went down to see them. I am a fully qualified Mechanical Engineer (not a motor mechanic) and was able to argue with their service manager who claimed to be a Mechanical Engineer as well. My concern was the damage to the chassis rail, and I considered his repair options to be less than satisfactory, so we parted company on that one. I have monitored the chassis and it has not changed in the last 21 years so I think it is OK, but Jayco quality control was (and probably still is) very questionable.
regarding the axle, Jayco man arranged to have the axle sent to the manufacturer - ALKO. ALKO nominally straightened the axle and sent it back to me. I ground the locating plates off the axle and realigned the caravan axle relative to the van myself. But it still had 7 mm toe-in at the tyre tread. I queried ALKO about this and they claimed that some toe-in was necessary to stabilise the trailer when it is being towed. I was a bit iffy about this claim, and naturally monitored tyre wear after that. Some years later, I was in Tom Price and noted that the tyres were still wearing unevenly, so I contacted ALKO and asked them whet the toe-in should be. They replied, saying that if I could get the van back home and remove the axle, they would supply me with a new axle - at their cost. I made it home with some rather worn tyres, and true to their word, freighted me a new axle. The axle still had 5 mm toe-in. I fitted it and aligned it to the caravan and since then the caravan has done about 30000 km and the tyres are still OK, but just... The left tyre is worn down and no longer does the tread have the ability to squirm around absorbing the misalignment. It is therefore starting to heat up more than the right side tyre. I suspect that 5 mm toe-in (or ANY toe-in for that matter) is too much.
The problem stems from the manufacture process. The axle is a solid square section steel bar. They machine a stub axle, place it on top of the bar and weld it in place. No doubt they have a jig to hold the axle in place while welding it, but I suspect that they put one heavy weld down one side of the axle and then do the same on the other side. The problem comes from the first weld shrinking as it cools, changing the alignment of the stub axle relative to the main bar. They then weld the other side, hoping that the shrinkage will bring it back into alignment, but depending on how soon it is welded, the size of the initial weld etc, the stub axle will finish up not being aligned properly with the main bar. Hence you have some 'toe-in'. ALKO then assemble the wheels and brakes etc onto the axle and ship it off to Jayco. Because of the parking brake cables, the axle can only go one way (the brake levers face the front). Jayco assembly then get the axle and nominally do their alignment and then weld the spring locating plates onto the main axle bar. You then take delivery of the van and by the time you see the tyres worn out, it is out of warranty and Jayco do not want to know anything about you. If only they put a measuring tape over the axle before they assembled it to the van, most of the problems would not occur...
To be fair to ALKO, they have treated me very well. They paid for a tyre when I first raised the issue, they nominally straightened the axle and freighted it to my house at their cost, and when I complained a few years later, they supplied a new axle with hubs at no cost to me, and freighted the new and old axles at their cost. A few years after all this, I had a hub collapse, so I phoned ALKO again to ask where I could buy a new hub. Their service manager asked me to forward the old hub to them so they could analyse the failure. They gave me 2 new hubs (because the rolling radius of the brake drums may have differed between new and old). So, ALKO have certainly done the right thing by me and I am prepared to acknowledge that, even though they assembled the initial axle with inbuilt toe-out.
My caravan has done about 135000 km since I bought it in January 2000. This is unusual, as most vans will only do relatively short trips. The tyres will most likely fail due to ageing rather than wearing out. To make things worse, I had a Viscount camper van before the Jayco, and it wore out a set of tyres in 10000 km. I measured the axle and it had 11 mm toe-out! At least the Jayco is heading in the right direction. By the time I buy my fifth caravan, I might just be lucky to get one with a straight axle.
Left hand rear wheel at a good guess.
I spoke to a JAYCO mechanic of some years who said it is a common problem from new.
I would take it to an authorised dealer due to the low mileage.
If no joy then go to a truck wheel aligner but only with a lot of noise in the dealers showroom before you go.
__________________
Welcome to Biggs Country many may know it as Australia
I would check the distance between the front tyre and the rear, and compare with the other side, same height, a rough/crude check but may help determine the issue.
Place a straight edge horizontally along the tyre of the suspect wheel.
It is generally easy to see it splaying in or out..
Peter offers a simple check as well.
You could have it diagnosed before you even get to the dealer workshop.
According to the JAYCO serviceman I spoke to some dealers cant do alignments.
__________________
Welcome to Biggs Country many may know it as Australia
We have a Jayco 17 ' dual axle. When we were travelling through Queensland we bumped into about three different Jayco owners who asked if our tyres were scrubbing out, which they were. Apparently it is common with Jaycos. I don't think that they do a wheel alignment when they are manufactured.
We did a wheel alignment with a truck alignment company and the tyres are now wearing evenly.
I would check the distance between the front tyre and the rear, and compare with the other side, same height, a rough/crude check but may help determine the issue.
Place a straight edge horizontally along the tyre of the suspect wheel.
It is generally easy to see it splaying in or out..
Peter offers a simple check as well.
You could have it diagnosed before you even get to the dealer workshop.
According to the JAYCO serviceman I spoke to some dealers cant do alignments.
I would check the distance between the front tyre and the rear, and compare with the other side, same height, a rough/crude check but may help determine the issue.
Place a straight edge horizontally along the tyre of the suspect wheel.
It is generally easy to see it splaying in or out..
Peter offers a simple check as well.
You could have it diagnosed before you even get to the dealer workshop.
According to the JAYCO serviceman I spoke to some dealers cant do alignments.
A plumbers line is an old trick.
It could be camber angle that is causing it but it easily checked against the angle of a wheel that isnt scrubbing with a spirit level.
My first camper with independent coil spring suspension wore both tyres out on the inside in under 10,000 klms. Contacted the manufacturer and the reply was "That's a fair distance". Took it to a place that could do a wheel alignment on it and it couldn't be done. Not enough adjustment to get it aligned. Back to the dealer and they agreed to pay an amount for it to be fixed. Took it to another manufacturer that uses this suspension on their trailers. Was that bad they agreed to fix it the easy way, that was loosen things off, get it aligned and weld it in position, should not have that problem after that. Harder more expensive way was to cut it off the chassis and reposition it, weld it back on then do an alignment. Seems like it was a problem that happened often at that time. The problem was bad manufacturing with bad workmanship and a who cares attitude from the manufacturing company.
Many thanks everyone.
We measured the distance between the wheel centres on each side and it was 6 mm less on the left( problem) side. The tyre is the left tear as one person speculated.
We went and spoke to the Cairns Jayco dealer. She said we'd probably hit a curb,( with the rear tyre only seems odd to me) it needed wheel alignment and couldn't fit us in til October. Said it needed to be done by a Jayco dealer. She suggested speaking to our original dealer back in Victoria, passing the buck I reckon. A very disappointing experience all round. She just wanted us out of there. Tried Townsville dealer, November is the earliest.
Thinking we'll find a Truck alignment place in Cairns and get them to do it but we're unsure if Jayco would then void any warranty. Main thing is the only other choice appears to be changing the tyre and sacrificing it for the journey back, which we're loath to do.
We went with a Jayco, knowing what we were getting quality wise because of the Australia wide dealer network. Seems it depends on the dealer as to their care factor.
Many thanks everyone. We measured the distance between the wheel centres on each side and it was 6 mm less on the left( problem) side. The tyre is the left tear as one person speculated. We went and spoke to the Cairns Jayco dealer. She said we'd probably hit a curb,( with the rear tyre only seems odd to me) it needed wheel alignment and couldn't fit us in til October. Said it needed to be done by a Jayco dealer. She suggested speaking to our original dealer back in Victoria, passing the buck I reckon. A very disappointing experience all round. She just wanted us out of there. Tried Townsville dealer, November is the earliest. Thinking we'll find a Truck alignment place in Cairns and get them to do it but we're unsure if Jayco would then void any warranty. Main thing is the only other choice appears to be changing the tyre and sacrificing it for the journey back, which we're loath to do. We went with a Jayco, knowing what we were getting quality wise because of the Australia wide dealer network. Seems it depends on the dealer as to their care factor.
Just because there is a 6mm difference between wheel centre measurements does not necessarily mean that it is the rear axle that is "out". You first need to establish that the lead (front) axle is at 90 degrees to the chassis, which is done by removing the wheels on that axle and accurately measuring from hitchpoint (towball) to the same point at each end of the axle. Unless your van has load sharing suspension a 'nose down' or 'nose up' stance determines which axle the van pivots on and which axle 'scrubs' when turning corners. Later on I'll PM you a contact in Cairns who MAY be able to help you. Good luck, but it's no big deal. Cheers
P.S Interesting that you consider Jayco is good 'quality wise'. As far as your warranty goes, I can't see that your rectifying a problem would affect it?
LATER:- PM sent. To access your PM just click on your user name and all will be revealed! Good luck.
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 2nd of July 2022 01:14:13 PM
Many thanks everyone. We measured the distance between the wheel centres on each side and it was 6 mm less on the left( problem) side. The tyre is the left tear as one person speculated. We went and spoke to the Cairns Jayco dealer. She said we'd probably hit a curb,( with the rear tyre only seems odd to me) it needed wheel alignment and couldn't fit us in til October. Said it needed to be done by a Jayco dealer. She suggested speaking to our original dealer back in Victoria, passing the buck I reckon. A very disappointing experience all round. She just wanted us out of there. Tried Townsville dealer, November is the earliest. Thinking we'll find a Truck alignment place in Cairns and get them to do it but we're unsure if Jayco would then void any warranty. Main thing is the only other choice appears to be changing the tyre and sacrificing it for the journey back, which we're loath to do. We went with a Jayco, knowing what we were getting quality wise because of the Australia wide dealer network. Seems it depends on the dealer as to their care factor.
DawnieB,
Try Jayco in Mackay, I do know that they can do wheel alignments.
There is a truck aligner place in Townsville but there was a bit of a waiting time a couple of years ago when I spoke to them. They do have a good name.
As I said above, the LH rear scrubbing a tyre is a known fault with Jayco.
Maybe phone your selling dealer and ask them to speak to Jayco in Mackay. They might be able to convince them to do it for you.
You are correct there are dealers and then the others.
__________________
Welcome to Biggs Country many may know it as Australia
Probably not. I had the same thing with one of my vans. I took it to a truck aligner, he straightened the wheels on one axle. His remark was the worst one was tracking out by 6 mm per meter travelled. The other was OK.
This happened back before Chinese parts were being used. The aligner remarked that he rarely gets a straight axle with problems. He does however get quite a few overlay axles with problems. He said it was because the overlay stubs are welded on crookedly.
I had no further problems in over 200,000 km travelling after that. If you have not already done so, take Ivan's advice and take your van to a truck aligner. They have the correct equipment to bend solid axles whereas the average car aligner does not.
__________________
PeterD Nissan Navara D23 diesel auto, Spaceland pop-top Retired radio and electronics technician. NSW Central Coast.
hi
Go ask even a car dealer to do a wheel alignment and see the response. I had the caster increased both sides increased 1.25 degrees with 1/2 degree difference side to side . The car dealer took it for a drive b4 and after . Mentioned on the invoice he could not notice the difference . LOL The vehicle stopped being sensitive and darting left to right and needing constant correction . Difference was far better to drive .
Above shows that even professionals supposedly noticed no difference . Demonstrates good help is very very hard to find .
No surprise Jayco dealers in regards to wheel align treat u like an absolute moron .
Truck wheel align and have the axle bent
A steel solid axle 2-4mm toe in
A steel solid axle .15 degree [-] camber
Square up both axles to to coupling first
Donot use a van dealer they would have little care factor and it will be a biased less than ideal outcome .
Can anyone recommend a wheel aligner in Melbourne. Preferably in the south-east suburbs. My van has independent suspension, single axle and both tyres are scrubbing out on the inside after 20,000km. The suspension is adjustable and there are Youtube videos on how to do it, but I lack a suitably level place to do this task at home and access is so limited (narrow street full of cars and s-shaped driveway) that I am reluctant to take it anywhere for less than several days.
I hope we her from DawnieB with a good outcome with the van wheel alignment.
Like you, Ivan, I hope that we hear as I have heard nothing back from the PM that I sent her with contact details for a chap in Cairns who could help her. Cheers
