Quotas in the workplace

Mike Harding · Guru

Quotas in the workplace

86GTS · Guru

Australia Post implemented a rule 15 years ago in the delivery arm.
If there's a vacancy & 4 men & a women are going for the same job, the woman must get it.
They were trying to even up a large gender imbalance.

yobarr · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Recently I have heard much argument on ABC radio and in The Age newspaper in support of quotas for, especially, women in the workforce - the sentiment is admirable of course although I am a little confused that the arguments I hear are generally proposing more women on company boards and similar senior and well paid jobs, I haven't heard anyone proposing more women bricklayers but I'm sure a movement is afoot.
Anyway: what I wish to support in this post is a quota for more female surgeons: I am passionate that a quota for 50% women is legislated for this profession, the hell with experience and exam results if you are female then you deserve the right to be a surgeon and operate on people. I am confident, Grey Nomads, of your support....

Hmmm. After a few years of reading your posts, most of which I find most interesting, I'm afraid that I detect a degree of sarcasm here? Cheers

landy · Guru

yobarr wrote:

Mike Harding wrote:
Recently I have heard much argument on ABC radio and in The Age newspaper in support of quotas for, especially, women in the workforce - the sentiment is admirable of course although I am a little confused that the arguments I hear are generally proposing more women on company boards and similar senior and well paid jobs, I haven't heard anyone proposing more women bricklayers but I'm sure a movement is afoot.
Anyway: what I wish to support in this post is a quota for more female surgeons: I am passionate that a quota for 50% women is legislated for this profession, the hell with experience and exam results if you are female then you deserve the right to be a surgeon and operate on people. I am confident, Grey Nomads, of your support....
Hmmm. After a few years of reading your posts, most of which I find most interesting, I'm afraid that I detect a degree of sarcasm here? Cheers

I suspect Chris might be right here, but just for the record if somebody is going to operate on me I want the best person for the job and I don't give a dam what their Gender is.
Landy

Mike Harding · Guru

Not at all Yobarr, I am simply highlighting the fact that occupations such as company directors are considered nebulous by most people whereas, say, a surgeon, is expected to have very specific skills and I am interested in the line people draw between, say, having their pension fund administered by a "quota" person as to having their body cut open by the same. Unless one can clearly differentiate between the two then, to me, it sounds rather like being a little bit pregnant....

iana · Guru

Interesting points, regarding gender for jobs, while these days strength is not necessarily a prerequisite , I was totally blown away by learning that on average a woman has only 52% the strength of a man upper body, and 62% lower. It stands that any job requiring strength w-e-l-l?
On the other hand a woman has finer and more dexterous hands and fingers, and with the added advantage of being able to multi-task better, they would make excellent surgeons. On that note my Heart specialist/surgeon is an Asian woman, my wife was a Veterinary surgeon, now retired.
Horses for courses, based on skill and ability, may the best person get the job.

watsea · Guru

iana wrote:
Interesting points, regarding gender for jobs, while these days strength is not necessarily a prerequisite , I was totally blown away by learning that on average a woman has only 52% the strength of a man upper body, and 62% lower. It stands that any job requiring strength w-e-l-l?

At some dive resorts in Bali, the porters, mainly women, earn their living carrying scuba equipment for holidaying guests. I admire their strength and balance carrying the tanks and equipment usually on their heads and shoulders, often on poorly formed paths. If you have experience with scuba equipment, you would understand what a feat this activity is.

GUIDE TO SCUBA DIVING IN BALI - LashWorldTour

My tour did not include the service provided by these hard working women.

-- Edited by watsea on Friday 1st of July 2022 09:16:37 PM

-- Edited by watsea on Friday 1st of July 2022 09:19:24 PM

Bobdown · Guru

Not being racist, but Telstra had unofficial quotas to employ Indigenous, Asian and European people, 5% I think.

SLO told me he would never employ First nations again, they went walkabout and couldn't do anything about it, never turned up again.

Cheers Bob

-- Edited by Bobdown on Friday 1st of July 2022 11:05:19 PM

Whenarewethere · Guru

86GTS wrote:
Australia Post implemented a rule 15 years ago in the delivery arm.
If there's a vacancy & 4 men & a women are going for the same job, the woman must get it.
They were trying to even up a large gender imbalance.

It cheaper to have 1 women do it than 4 men!

dorian · Guru

I think that people need to accept that certain jobs are not attractive to women, and other jobs are not attractive to men. In such cases quotas would be an unwelcome and counterproductive distortion of the workplace.

For example, there was only one female in my final year of engineering at university, and that was at a time when university education was truly free. Entry into university was solely determined by a person's academic performance. There was no bias, conscious or otherwise.

oldbloke · Guru

Boys play with trucks.
Girls play with dolls.

Will never change.

Some jobs just don't suit women and visa versa.

I've always believed in best qualified gets the job.

Blues Man · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
Boys play with trucks.
Girls play with dolls.

Will never change.

Some jobs just don't suit women and visa versa.

I've always believed in best qualified gets the job.

I fully agree with you oldbloke .Best qualified gets the job.

oldbloke · Guru

I have no issue if a woman wants to apply for a traditional man's job. But gotta get the job based on merrit/ability.

To my point, about 15 years ago I was on a mining/smelting site in WA. The women were by far the best mobike plant operators.

-- Edited by oldbloke on Saturday 2nd of July 2022 10:11:06 AM

dorian · Guru

It's interesting that Penny Wong was born in a country where racial discrimination (aka "affirmative action") is institutionalised and legally quantified.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumiputera_(Malaysia)#Contentious_policy

I wonder how she feels about gender based quotas.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

I read somewhere that in general companies with female CEOs get better outcomes than those run by male CEOs. I haven't read anything about surgeons.

Are We Lost · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
Boys play with trucks.
Girls play with dolls.

Will never change.

Some jobs just don't suit women and visa versa.

I've always believed in best qualified gets the job.

My youngest daughter was a firm believer that it was a learned trait because parents treated them differently. So, her first born was a girl followed by a boy 2 years later. She resolved not to fall into the boy/girl routine of toys and activities but tried to treat them the same. All seemed to be OK and going to plan until the boy was old enough to appreciate books with pictures and learning words. There was no way she could interest him in most of the books that had interested his sister.

But bring out a book with trucks and his eyes lit up. "Truck" may have been his first word. biggrin . Dolls, not the slightest interest, much to his mother's frustration.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 2nd of July 2022 01:14:37 PM

Ivan 01 · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Recently I have heard much argument on ABC radio and in The Age newspaper in support of quotas for, especially, women in the workforce - the sentiment is admirable of course although I am a little confused that the arguments I hear are generally proposing more women on company boards and similar senior and well paid jobs, I haven't heard anyone proposing more women bricklayers but I'm sure a movement is afoot.
Anyway: what I wish to support in this post is a quota for more female surgeons: I am passionate that a quota for 50% women is legislated for this profession, the hell with experience and exam results if you are female then you deserve the right to be a surgeon and operate on people. I am confident, Grey Nomads, of your support....

An interesting point.

Talking almost first hand, my current GP is female and she was, for a lot of her career, a surgeon.

When I asked her of the taking up of the GP position in a shared practice her reply was that the surgeons job was extremely stressful.

I found it good that she had full knowledge of the procedures that I had when I had the big C.

Now as I recall, there were teams of surgeons who came to my bedside while I was in hospital but it was obvious that very few of them were females.