More STEM, less Arts

dorian · Guru

More STEM, less Arts

Whenarewethere · Guru

Let's simply look at mathematics, people good with numbers were good musically. It's why music is the basis of maths. Goes back to a lot of scientific work including measuring the moving of planets.

The best solutions come out of non scientific ideas. Xerox developed the screen icon. Steve Jobs could see the potential & this bit of art changed computer interaction forever.

IBM said the world only ever needed 6 computers, other could see the creative potential.

STEM to have the greatest potential needs to be changed to STEAM.

dorian · Guru

I always pose this question, if the world were about to end and we needed to select people to populate another planet, who would get a seat on the spaceship?

Mike Harding · Guru

Surely the first question to ask is, why do we educate people?

Is it to create a skills base required by industry at this moment in time? Or is it to create a bedrock of individuals who appreciate the concepts of learning and knowledge and give them the skills and desire to further educate themselves? I like to think it's the latter.

Certainly we need the STEM areas but it would be a very dull and non stimulating world if we did not have literature, theatre, music, philosophy and the like. I think we need a mix of arts and science and it would be no bad thing to make it compulsory at university for an arts student to do a science subject and vice versa. Get the little devils out of their comfort zone and open their minds a bit.

The Ballarat campus is closing the course due to lack of demand it seems, there could be many reasons for that.

My other concern is that we nowadays send far too many youngsters to university, it is not the best direction for many but we have created a society where a degree is required by employers for jobs which, really, don't need a degree at all.

Edit:

Dorian: suffice it to say that in Douglas Adams' (Cambridge, English Lit.) immortal radio series The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy the advertising executives, telephone sanitizers and hairdressers did not fare well in the spaceship stakes :)

-- Edited by Mike Harding on Friday 5th of August 2022 12:32:55 PM

dorian · Guru

I see Arts as a luxury that we currently can't support in the light of our trillion dollar debt, at least not to the same extent as in my day. I think the conservative government started moving in the right direction by shifting their fiscal emphasis toward STEM. STEM may not be sexy, but it forms the foundation for everything else.

It seems to me that the West should be preparing for a time when China will no longer be our factory. Manufacturing needs to come home, and when it does we will need STEM graduates to drive it. The EU underestimated their dependence on Russian gas, but at least they have a substantial manufacturing base and skilled workforce. Australia has lost both.

86GTS · Guru

In my lifetime I have met a number of highly intelligent individuals who have spent an enormormous amount of time at university studying a plethora of degrees & the like.
They could be called professional students.
Quite a few of them have struggled when it comes down to working in the everyday workforce.
Some of them have never used the qualifications that they possess.
They could be called highly educated duds.
This country needs practical hard working, down to earth people to survive into the future, not airy fairy, head in the clouds types.

DMaxer · Guru

Most degrees have a component of arts Mike. When I did my degree the first year was basically arts based with subjects such as philosophy, history and science subjects as well. I carried philosophy and geology on through my degree as well as all the law subjects. In fact, I enjoyed them more than any of the legal subjects with the exception of a couple. What a boring place the world would be without the arts or science.

Craig1 · Guru

n my lifetime I have met a number of highly intelligent individuals who have spent an enormormous amount of time at university studying a plethora of degrees & the like.
They could be called professional students.
Quite a few of them have struggled when it comes down to working in the everyday workforce.
Some of them have never used the qualifications that they possess.
They could be called highly educated duds.
This country needs practical hard working, down to earth people to survive into the future, not airy fairy, head in the clouds types. Wrote 86,

This sounds like most of our Politicians, both sides., or should I now say 4 sides?

DMaxer · Guru

You seem to try and bring politics into every thread Craig. If it is not in the jokes section where you recycle some ancient joke by inserting a new name it is in general posts. Your side got belted and thrown out on their ear. All that awaits them is ICAC. You have to let go and move on my friend.

Bobdown · Guru

This guy has a equal sided brain function, pretty amazing.

Blues Man · Guru

That guy is unbelievable ,i wonder what else he can do.

Corndoggy · Senior Member

I'd say there are some very highly educated people out there that are idiots.

86GTS · Guru

Corndoggy wrote:
I'd say there are some very highly educated people out there that are idiots.

From my work experiences I'd say you were dead right.

dorian · Guru

I see that the recalibration of university education is also happening in the UK and elsewhere. It's looking like a worldwide phenomenon. I agree that life would be boring without arts, but there are more urgent priorities.

By the way, "professional students" would typically be studying for Masters degrees or PhDs, in which case they would be tutoring younger students and researching new technologies.

-- Edited by dorian on Wednesday 10th of August 2022 04:02:06 AM

Izabarack · Guru

I recently had a Theology Phd candidate doing one of my courses as an elective. "Content and Symbology in 16th century Stained Glass windows" is not likely to advance understanding of the effect of coal fired power stations on Global Warming mitigation efforts.

dorian · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
I recently had a Theology Phd candidate doing one of my courses as an elective. "Content and Symbology in 16th century Stained Glass windows" is not likely to advance understanding of the effect of coal fired power stations on Global Warming mitigation efforts.

Swinburne?

Mike Harding · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
I recently had a Theology Phd candidate doing one of my courses as an elective. "Content and Symbology in 16th century Stained Glass windows" is not likely to advance understanding of the effect of coal fired power stations on Global Warming mitigation efforts.

Except we don't all need to be experts in one field... it would get a little crowded don't you think...?

86GTS · Guru

It's always good to extend ones educational pursuits.
While employed by Melbourne Water in the engineering field I volunteered to be a member of a mixed gender "sniffing panel" for 6 months.
MW are responsible for water supply & sewage.
If residents complain about bad odours coming from MW pipelines or pits, air samples are taken.
Sort of like bottling a fart for enjoying later.
Back at the "sniffing panel", each individual is isolated in a booth with a tube at nose height.
The sample is then released & sent to the booths to be assessed.
Each panel member has to tick boxes describing the smell, such as acrid, sweet, pungent etc.
No additional payment was given, it was entirely voluntary.
I found it fascinating, it was a real "eye opener" while gaining an insight into something that I was totally unaware of.
I don't think that I'll be needing that experience again its a real pity.

-- Edited by 86GTS on Wednesday 10th of August 2022 10:49:15 AM

dorian · Guru

86GTS wrote:
While employed by Melbourne Water in the engineering field I volunteered to be a member of a mixed gender "sniffing panel" for 6 months.

Was this before someone invented the chromatograph?

86GTS · Guru

dorian wrote:
86GTS wrote:
While employed by Melbourne Water in the engineering field I volunteered to be a member of a mixed gender "sniffing panel" for 6 months.
Was this before someone invented the chromatograph?

1985 to be exact.

Izabarack · Guru

dorian wrote:
Swinburne?

Undergrad in Vic somwhere, Phd at Griffith.

dorian · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
dorian wrote:
Swinburne?
Undergrad in Vic somwhere, Phd at Griffith.

I've seen some strange stuff come out of Swinburne. It's like the Byron Bay of tertiary education.

dorian · Guru

Here's a view from the other side:

https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/07/31/the-all-out-assault-on-the-humanities/

"Once upon a time the academy was all about the humanities. But no more. [Isn't that a good thing?] Today UK universities increasingly regard subjects like English, history and classics as optional extras, courses for the posh and privileged or, worse still, irrelevant."

"It is not a surprise that many young people are turning away from the humanities. These subjects have often been a target of philistine contempt [I would say "pragmatic reappraisal"] from successive governments and business interests. They argue that since the humanities do not have any economic value, universities should either scrap them or limit the numbers of students studying them."

Then the author descends into the almost obligatory attack on "woke activists" and proceeds to lose any credibility he may have had.

dorian · Guru

Who needs humanities when you can sneak them into the STEM curriculum? This should be in the Jokes section. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time.

https://unherd.com/2019/10/will-maths-succumb-to-the-woke-wave/

SEATTLE PUBLIC SCHOOLS K-12 Math Ethnic Studies Framework (20.08.2019):

https://www.k12.wa.us/sites/default/files/public/socialstudies/pubdocs/Math%20SDS%20ES%20Framework.pdf

Theme: Power and Oppression

Power and oppression, as defined by ethnic studies, are the ways in which individuals and groups define mathematical knowledge so as to see "Western" mathematics as the only legitimate expression of mathematical identity and intelligence. This definition of legitimacy is then used to disenfranchise people and communities of color. This erases the historical contributions of people and communities of color.

Theme: Reflection and Action

Student action, as defined by ethnic studies, is fostering a sense of advocacy, empowerment, and action in the students that creates internal motivation to engage in and contribute to their identities as mathematicians. Students will be confident in their ability to construct & decode mathematical knowledge, truth, and beauty so they can contribute to their experiences and the experiences of people in their community.

How is math manipulated to allow inequality and oppression to persist?

How has math been used to resist and liberate people and communities of color from oppression?

How can math be used to analyze and interpret life?

How does mathematics allow us to acquire intellectual freedom?

dorian · Guru

Can this stuff happen here? Florida has enacted legislation which will replace left wing indoctrination with right wing indoctrination in schools.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/13/politics/desantis-florida-schools-anti-woke-education-agenda/index.html

https://www.pillsburylaw.com/en/news-and-insights/fl-stop-woke-act-enacted.html

"On April 22, 2022, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed into law HB 7, the Individual Freedom Act, also known as the Stop the Wrongs to Our Kids and Employees (W.O.K.E.) Act. The Stop WOKE Act, as it is commonly known, has the stated goal of 'giv[ing] businesses, employees, children and families tools to fight back against woke indoctrination.'"

"Contentious laws went into effect during the summer recess that restrict how schools teach topics linked to race and sexual orientation. New avenues were created for parents to sue teachers and challenge instructional materials. Math textbooks have been culled for traces of critical race theory. Schools for the first time will have to observe 'Victims of Communism Day,' during which high schoolers will be taught anti-communism lessons."