Using phones/Radios while driving

Brodie Allen · Guru

Using phones/Radios while driving

valiant81 · Senior Member

Hi all: This question was one of the questions on the exam paper when i upgraded my amature radio license a number of years ago. And the answer is yes you can use a microphone while driving, as long as you're still considered to be in proper control of your vehicle.

Ivan 01 · Guru

The title of the topic suggests phones which by law are not permitted to be used while in the control of a motor vehicle where as stated, radio microphones are OK with observations of safe vehicle operation.

Whenarewethere · Guru

I suppose that if the phone transmitted to a radio, then you use the radio that maybe ok.

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

Whenarewethere wrote:
I suppose that if the phone transmitted to a radio, then you use the radio that maybe ok.

Even the use of hands free kits on mobile phones while moving are breaking the law but people only generally get caught when the officer observes the user actually touching the phone.

Dont shoot the messenger here, the law can be a bit of an ass at times.

For the average motorist it is just safer to pull up.

dabbler · Guru

It's still legal to use a UHF handset when moving but don't rely on what you were taught in the past, check current laws (Laws change frequently enough). It certainly isn't illegal to use a hands-free kit in Qld *if* you can operate it without touching your phone (except for P1 licence holders who can't use hand free plus other restrictions). I don't think the law it an ass here, I think it's hard to write new laws that keep up with the times without creating loopholes and/or anomalies in other areas.

Mike Harding · Guru

You will need to check the law for individual states.

In Victoria, Road Rule 300 specifically permits the use of "two way radios". I was pulled over once when using my Amateur Radio but the officers subsequently acknowledged I was using the radio and not my phone, not that they apologized mind you....

Gundog · Guru

I go back to the late 70's when 27mHz CB radio was a big thing, at that time it was illegal to use whilst moving, fast forward a lot of years, the use of 2 way radio is considered a driving aid just like a GPS.

The biggest issue with phone usage its the lack of attention whilst driving, texting, social media, emails and holding a phone require the user to divert their eyes away from their surroundings to the device, that lack of attention is the issue.

peter67 · Guru

As a life long motorcyclist I HATE distracted drivers.

Brodie Allen · Guru

The law certainly needs clarification.

What could be more distracting than fiddling with the dashboard displays now common in the newer vehicles -
can't use a phone as a GPS, but you can fiddle with the myriads of aps on the centre displays.

Back to radios - if there ever was to be a blanket ban on the use of these, the truckies and ourselves
would be back to not being able to communicate when passing etc etc. a considerable step backwards.

BN

Ivan 01 · Guru

Brodie Allen wrote:
The law certainly needs clarification.

What could be more distracting than fiddling with the dashboard displays now common in the newer vehicles -
can't use a phone as a GPS, but you can fiddle with the myriads of aps on the centre displays.

Back to radios - if there ever was to be a blanket ban on the use of these, the truckies and ourselves
would be back to not being able to communicate when passing etc etc. a considerable step backwards.

BN

Some controls in modern cars are frightening with regard to their safe use.

My old Mitsubishi ute is no too bad but my sons Toyota is a nightmare.

As gundog mentioned using CB radios years ago was taboo law wise mainly due to the reason that the major purpose for use of CB sets was to dodge the over policing of truckies. Trying to enforce their use only while stationary was nothing more than a dream.

The phone is a dangerous item when in use by a driver in a moving vehicle.

I have always wondered why there can not be a device fitted within the phones operating system to prevent use when the phone is moving.

OK OK biggrin I know this may be a worry for those passengers and train and bus travellers but we only need to consider the deaths and serious injury to so many that are in accidents caused by mobile phone useage by drivers while moving.

Maybe even a switch that can prevent a signal.

But wait, hang on, they all have one of those. It is called the on / off switch. biggrin

deverall11 · Guru

All truckies use a CD of sort. Imagine telling them it is now illegal. Ah.
Besides whilst towing the van we always made a point of contacting the
truck behind to let him know we knew he was there and hence facilitate
a safe overtaking manoeuver.
At any rate most people do not have a conversation the same length
as you would on a phone. Hence distraction is not a real issue.

watsea · Guru

I think people generally don't have long conversations as the radio is like a "party line". It is possible for many others to hear the conversations and that often leads to that behaviour.

Blues Man · Guru

peter67 wrote:
As a life long motorcyclist I HATE distracted drivers.

Yes Peter ,I'm with you on that.

Mariner30 · Senior Member

deverall11 wrote:
All truckies use a CD of sort. Imagine telling them it is now illegal. Ah.
Besides whilst towing the van we always made a point of contacting the
truck behind to let him know we knew he was there and hence facilitate
a safe overtaking manoeuver.

Interesting...
I drove trucks. ( mostly heavy rigids and semis ) for more than 30 years around the north and north east of Vic...occasionaly Sydney... and never once had anyone call me up and tell me " they knew l was behind them "
On main highways, single lane mountain backroads.
Thinking now, l don't recall hearing that while working or playing either,

I'm retired now in a rural Tas town but have UHF ( and VHF marine radios ) in my shed and rarely hear and road chatter, other than 4WD convoys going on offroad adventures

bristte · Veteran Member

Mariner30 wrote:
I drove trucks. ( mostly heavy rigids and semis ) for more than 30 years around the north and north east of Vic...occasionaly Sydney... and never once had anyone call me up and tell me " they knew l was behind them "

I generally do this when towing. What discourages me from doing so is how rarely I get acknowledgement via radio from the truck driver. Sometimes I get the L-R-L indicator flash after they've passed, but not all that often.

JackoFJR · Senior Member

Ok so how do you interpret this ,

Fully licensed drivers can use their phone for making or receiving audio calls, using the audio/music function or as a GPS if the phone is:

secured in a commercially designed holder fixed to the vehicle, or

can be operated hands-free.

Brodie Allen · Guru

I wonder how many crashes emanate from drivers fiddling with GPS, apple play this that and the
other apps encapsulated into the "entertainment center" on the dasboard displays.

Should never have been allowed.

In my estimation they are worse than phones (other than texting) since visual attention is necessary.

There was a time when councils were limiting roadside advertising.

And pretty girls in thong bikinis picking up litter, thumbing rides . . . . .

Brodie

-- Edited by Brodie Allen on Thursday 22nd of September 2022 01:24:08 PM

yobarr · Guru

bristte wrote:
Mariner30 wrote:
I drove trucks. ( mostly heavy rigids and semis ) for more than 30 years around the north and north east of Vic...occasionaly Sydney... and never once had anyone call me up and tell me " they knew l was behind them"
I generally do this when towing. What discourages me from doing so is how rarely I get acknowledgement via radio from the truck driver. Sometimes I get the L-R-L indicator flash after they've passed, but not all that often.

Interesting. When I am travelling in my car and van I am in no great hurry to get anywhere, but I always keep a close watch on my mirrors (and camera) for traffic approaching from behind. If it's a truck I simply say "See you there mate. Come round when you're ready". Invariably I get the "Thanks Mate" in reply, and when I see that the road ahead is clear I give 2 or 3 flashes of the RIGHT side indicator to tell him that I reckon it's safe for him to overtake. He can then safely pull out and make his own decision. If he starts to overtake I'll back off slightly and when his last trailer is clear of my car I'll flash my headlights to signal that it's safe for him to move left, or maybe I'll give him a call like "All good mate" or "Bring it back" or whatever. Always there is a response, either via the UHF or "Thanks" via the L-R-L indicator flash. When an LV (light vehicle) approaches from behind I generally use the 2 or 3 flash method unless I can see a UHF aerial. If the following vehicle driver is unfamiliar with the 2 or 3 flash method of communication, no harm done. They simply stay behind, although "in the bush" few are not familiar with it, and I have used it to get Police cars past me. They too are appreciative. But then again, this is in WA where people are a lot more down to earth, and non-pretentious. However, I must admit that when I'm driving my 130 ton Roadtrain I'm surprised at how many caravan-towing "terrorists" now will call me to say that they've seen me, and then use the 2 or 3 flash system to tell me that they think that it's safe for me to have a look. When I was running interstate over East, in B Doubles, I used the same systems, whick worked with other truckies, but not so well with other motorists. Cheers.

P.S Just looked at a site "NZs worst drivers" which was a real eye-opener. See picture below. This is typical of the stuff that truckies see, and have to deal with,each day.

bristte · Veteran Member

There's been some publicity recently, perhaps on the ABC, about the two or three flash method of indicating that it's safe to pass being illegal. My own experience is that it's open to misinterpretation. On my last trip I was looking for a road to the right that was not easy to spot, and initially put my indicator on too early and had to cancel it. Then when I put it on for real, a ute that I hadn't noticed hiding behind the van came whizzing past just as I wanted to turn. Gave me a nasty fright. I was concerned for me and for him, as I had no idea whether it was safe to pass - I hadn't been looking for that, although in hindsight if it was safe to turn then I guess there must have been some clear air ahead. Given the risk of misinterpretation I don't use this method, but the fact that others do means there's still a risk. Things must be different in WA. Radios remove that ambiguity. Pity more vans don't have them.

Mike Harding · Guru

bristte wrote:
On my last trip I was looking for a road to the right that was not easy to spot, and initially put my indicator on too early and had to cancel it. Then when I put it on for real, a ute that I hadn't noticed hiding behind the van came whizzing past just as I wanted to turn.

I don't care if Australia has been doing it for 200 years using the *right* indicator to suggest an overtaking possibility is crazy.

Flash the *left* indicator a few times it's a fail-safe method.

The rest of the world seems to manage this process without issue.

KevinJ · Senior Member

Hi Mike, are we talking about left blinker in Europe where they drive on the right hand side of the road or left blinker in the UK where they drive on the left hand side of the road?

Mike Harding · Guru

Hi Kevin

I was simply using left side driving Australia for the example as that seemed most appropriate for this forum.

The practice across the 17 countries in which I have driven is to use the kerb or passenger side indicator to suggest the following vehicle may wish to consider overtaking.

I would have thought this blindingly obvious! Using the driver side indicator risks the following vehicle thinking you mean "try overtaking" when you're thinking "I'll turn right into my driveway in 100m".

KevinJ · Senior Member

Thanks Mike. It was me who was confused.

yobarr · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
bristte wrote:
On my last trip I was looking for a road to the right that was not easy to spot, and initially put my indicator on too early and had to cancel it. Then when I put it on for real, a ute that I hadn't noticed hiding behind the van came whizzing past just as I wanted to turn.
I don't care if Australia has been doing it for 200 years using the *right* indicator to suggest an overtaking possibility is crazy.
Flash the *left* indicator a few times it's a fail-safe method.
The rest of the world seems to manage this process without issue.

Seems we have had different experiences Mike, as the number of countries that I have driven in is far greater than 17 and Australia is the only country where I have seen indicators used to assist overtaking? How can "flash the *left* indicator a few times" be of any help to anybody? Seems pretty pointles showing someone where you DON'T want them to go? However, I will again expain the simple logic involved in safely using the right side indicator to indicate to following vehicles that I believe it safe for them to overtake. Flashing the indicator shows following traffic where it is safe to move to, not where it is unsafe to move to. When using the right indicator to help others overtake, ONLY 2 or 3 flashes are given. If the following driver is familiar with the practice, he will pull out to have a look, and then continue to overtake if he wants to. Job done. However, if he is NOT familiar with the practice he'll simply stay put in his own lane. How can that be dangerous? All safe, All happy,No harm done. If the truck driver does plan to turn right he will first put his right indicator on and LEAVE IT ON, a clear indication that a right turn is planned. He also will begin to SLOW DOWN, another helpful sign, surely? If any following motorist is too stupid to understand that a truck that is slowing down, and also has its right indicator flashing, is planning a right turn, then he deserves to be hit, but likely won't be because any truckie turning right will be keeping an eye on his mirror for cars etc. This practice is carried out by many thousands of truckies who annually travel hundreds of thousands of kilometres, with no problem. It's only when 10,000km/year car drivers get involved that there are issues. This, I hope, clearly explains why and how the "2 or 3 flashes of the right indicator" works. Cheers

yobarr · Guru

bristte wrote:
On my last trip I was looking for a road to the right that was not easy to spot, and initially put my indicator on too early and had to cancel it. Then when I put it on for real, a ute that I hadn't noticed hiding behind the van came whizzing past just as I wanted to turn. Gave me a nasty fright.

While this unfortunate incident clearly gave you a "nasty fright" two worrying points immediately come to mind. 1) How on earth did the ute manage to get to the rear of your van and "hide behind the van" without you seeing its approach? 2) On both the right and left of your car there should be MIRRORS. Had you been using those mirrors as intended, firstly the ute wouldn't have gone unnoticed as it approached to "hide", and secondly you would have seen it pull out to "whiz past". Always you should know what is happening on all sides of your car, not just what can be seen through your half of the front windscreen. Each day I observe caravan pilots travelling slowly, staring straight ahead, white knuckles gripping the steering wheel at "10 to 2", oblivious to all around them. But they're all good drivers. Just gotta ask them! Hopefully this incident helped you to understand why cars have mirrors? Good luck in your travels. Cheers.

P.S There is no risk to anybody if the driver of the lead vehicle uses only 2 or 3 flashes of the indicator to say "it's safe to have a look"?

diggerop · Senior Member

Wrong wrong! Then you get the driver who sees a couple or three flashes and theyre straight out and starting to pass and dont or cant see the other 20 or 30 flashes. They may sneak out and have a look and the road will be clear, good to go, but theyre now looking ahead down the road, not at the blinking blinkers. There is a risk.

bristte · Veteran Member

I was anticipating this argumentative reply. Why did I not see the ute earlier? Because on this occasion I was focussed entirely on identifying the hidden turn to the right that I was going to take. That is generally going to be the case when I searching for a poorly marked turn. Do I look in my mirrors? Yes, of course. Quite often. Do I see vehicles sitting behind me? Mostly. But some seem to adopt a position behind the van that makes it hard to see them, and that's despite the fact that the van is the same width as the 4WD, and thus my mirrors give a good, unhindered view. I use bends in the road to check if someone is behind me, and in sunny conditions look for the tell-tale shadow.

Despite all this, sometimes I miss someone there, and on this recent occasion that just happened to coincide with me putting on the indicator too early and having to cancel it and then a short distance later indicating again. Did I see him coming past me in my side mirror? Yes, I did. But not a moment too soon. I was just about to start turning and a second or so later it would have been catastrophic.

This recent article summarises my views, especially after my recent close call: www.abc.net.au/news/2022-09-18/mixed-signals-this-common-road-courtesy-is-actually-illegal/101438102

If you haven't had a close call yet, then it's only a matter of time.

I fully expect another argumentative reply, but the ABC article says it all. Over and out.

Mike Harding · Guru

bristte wrote:
If you haven't had a close call yet, then it's only a matter of time.

Fortunately this dangerous practice of using the driver's side indicator to indicate an overtaking possibility has largely died out in Vic/NSW and been replaced by the international norm of using the passenger side one.

It is only a matter of time before it is fully dead and buried and good riddance to it too.

thomas01 · Senior Member

I recently finished a return trip from Victoria to Darwin via NSW and Qld. Have been towing a van for about 12 years and in my working life was on the road almost every day, mainly around regional Vic and southern NSW.

I know my memory isn"t as good as it used to be, but, I can not recall EVER seeing anyone use the left indicator to signal that it is safe for another vehicle to overtake. How long has this "International Norm" been happening in Aus?

I must admit that I am on Yobarr's side with this one. I have noticed that most of Yobarr's usual antagonists don't have a view on this topic. Is that because they don't have an opinion on this technique, or is it because they might actually agree with something that he has written?

It would be good to find out what the majority of overtaking drivers expect to see from the slower moving vehicle, so that we can ALL provide that same signal, either left or right, in a consistent manner across the country.

Let us know what signal (if any) that you give to overtaking vehicles.. A simple LEFT, RIGHT or NONE vote is sufficient.

Regards Robert

ps. RIGHT

pss. Sorry for hijacking the original post.

-- Edited by thomas01 on Tuesday 27th of September 2022 10:27:33 PM

-- Edited by thomas01 on Tuesday 27th of September 2022 10:30:05 PM