Not going to be a problem in our lifetime. Will take a giant leap in battery tech that's a long way off.

BHP, Rio Tinto & FMG have ordered battery powered locos. If you can move trains with tens of thousands of tonnes of ore, a caravan is a piece of cake.

I see BMW have announced that their new sixth generation batteries have 30% more range and 30% quicker charging time.

We are only at the start of battery technology....things will improve dramatically over the next 20 years.

Collo.

If eScooters and Mobile phones catch fire on occasions, what will EVs do when parked in the garage?

KevinJ wrote:

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If eScooters and Mobile phones catch fire on occasions, what will EVs do when parked in the garage?

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 Or the Samsung washing machine, or the thousands of kilometres of Infinity electric wiring in buildings for that matter.

Possum3 wrote:

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Whenarewethere wrote:

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BHP, Rio Tinto & FMG have ordered battery powered locos. If you can move trains with tens of thousands of tonnes of ore, a caravan is a piece of cake.

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 Rio Tinto purchases first battery-electric trains for the Pilbara

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 pretty easy when they have a pantograph connection to overhead wires, like the Blackwater Coal Railway which both diesel and electric trains use .......dont think that would be practicle for a Caravan and tow vehicle.

mixo wrote:

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battery tech is improving every day, its just a waiting game.

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 Yeah, maybe but they haven't improved much in 160 years if you compare their rate of development to almost any other technical product over that same period.

eg. Remember what computers or motorcycles or tyres or television or medicine were like 50 years past, let alone 160?

Mike Harding wrote:

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mixo wrote:

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battery tech is improving every day, its just a waiting game.

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 Yeah, maybe but they haven't improved much in 160 years if you compare their rate of development to almost any other technical product over that same period.

eg. Remember what computers or motorcycles or tyres or television or medicine were like 50 years past, let alone 160?

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 Agreed. Possum mentions the electric battery locomotive from Wabtec Mike. A quick look at their website for the "battery powered" loco reveals that it is in fact a diesel/electric hybrid promising a 10% reduction in emissions. 20 racks containing a total of 20,000 cells provide 2,400KWH, enough for 30mins power at full throttle. Not hard to work out how much time the diesel engine is doing all the work, although they do say the train will "graze" off the battery while cruising. I'm all for small EV's in a city environment where there are practical benefits to be had, but as vehicle weight increases battery size and weight balloons. For instance, if an SUV 77KWH battery weighs approx 500Kg's I believe the battery pack in Wabtec's diesel hybrid would come in somewhere around 15,500kgs (not counting the massive thermal cooling system) of extra payload on an otherwise perfectly good diesel freight train that would be far more economical to run without hauling the large battery pack. Perhaps that would deliver the claimed 10% emissions reduction...just dump the battery weight and cruise along on less throttle. As for regenerative braking, while that happens in start stop traffic it rarely occurs at cruising speeds on the open highway/railroad tracks. The train is being trialled in America as of 2020 using gummint grants. Is that what is happening here, and are the mining companies using this as a greenwashing tool?

 

Ivan, given that there are so many vested interest groups pushing for zero ice transport what are your thoughts on heavy haulage vehicles being replaced by electric alternatives?

 

Ok, ice hummer 6.2ltr V8 curb weight is 3,000kgs.
Electric hummer curb weight is 4,372kgs.
Replacement battery cost est 20 to 30k at todays prices.

Hi Peter,

My thoughts are that heavy haulage vehicles are on the same wish list as all the other vehicles.

There are some that want them and others that dream of them.
Apparently Hydrogen is being touted to be a good option as well.

As KB said above, the power side of an EV wont be a problem but the infrastructure is and will be for some time.

*There are no worries as far as power/torque are concerned ..........range, recharge facilities (and the electrical infrastructure to supply them) and recharge time are the problems. KB*

Mike Harding wrote:

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Red Fox wrote:

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I reckon there will be huge advances over the next 10 years.

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How much have you invested in entrepreneurial battery companies? Given your confidence.

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 Why would you even ask that question?

 

I have simply said I believe there will be more technical advances in batteries over the next 10 years. History suggests that demand pushes improvement.

Gundog is on the money here.

Battery technology is not far off its limits now.
The periodic table of elements is well known and it is well known when we mix certain elements together what their capacity to store electricity is.
Some are far better than others, but there is always a trade off.
There are better mixes than what is being used currently but the trade off's are unacceptable.

To state an example, molten salt batteries have shown large promise, but the trade off is that the salt must be kept above boiling point for the battery to work which burns a lot of power on its own so the trade off is unacceptable.

There are lots of battery technology around, but none are anywhere near production because of the various issues surrounding them. The best they can do is tinker around the edges.

So to get more range from an EV you have to increase battery capacity. The battery, just like a fossil fuel vehicles fuel tank is just a system of storing energy. More energy required = bigger storage capacity.
There is no magical fix. The laws of physics and thermodynamics don't change simply because we have an EV despite all the clowns in Federal Parliament wishing for this to happen.

EV's certainly have a role to play in our future, but it will be more for commuter vehicles or short haul transport. Long haul, caravanning and Agricultural equipment are going to be using fossil fuels for a long time to come. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles maybe the only practical solution for these needs.

The charge time too for these large Ute's such as the Lightening is an issue. The big battery in that is 115kw/hrs. The fastest charger on the Nullabor currently has just been installed at Caiguna and is a 50kw/hr charger run off old chip oil.
So your F150 will take about 2 hours 15 minutes to charge up after travelling for only an hour twenty towing your 2800kg van. You also wouldn't make it from one Roadhouse to the next anyway.

It takes 20 litres of chip oil to charge one Tesla. I trust that there is going to be a lot of people eating hot chips at Caiguna if EV's crossing the Nullabor becomes a thing.

And the battery in this vehicle is nearly twice the capacity of that in a Hyundai Kona EV to put things in perspective.
The ABC has been running stories about the marvels of all of this but it certainly isn't going to be all things to all folks. The technology falls far short of where it needs to be to do that.

The other thing is charging from home.
A 10 amp GPO will give you a charge rate of a maximum of 2.4kw/hr
15 amp about 3.6 kw/hr
And if you have the ability to have one of the fast chargers connected to your household supply they will give about 7.7kw/hr.
3 phase can bump the fast charger up to 22kw/hr.
So depending on the size battery your car has you can simply do the maths on how long it is going to take to charge your EV.

Would I buy an EV? I would certainly consider one for running about town. I think they are a really practical solution in that role particularly if coupled with a large rooftop solar system and storage battery at home. But as far as my tow tug goes I will be waiting to see what Hydrogen tech brings, as an EV will not and probably never will replace my fossil fuel tow tug, certainly not in my lifetime. 

 

-- Edited by Greg 1 on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 02:15:33 PM

Yes well there is no accounting for the number of truly stupid people in this world willing to risk their necks and unfortunately other innocent people around them when their stupid actions turn pear shaped and come undone.

Talking large vans and tow tugs, I was in a caravan park between the Gold Coast and Brisbane and saw this 40' caravan parked in a bay there. It was a monster with 3 air-conditioners on the roof, 4 axles and just generally huge in every department.

I was thinking that the owner must be using a small truck to be towing such a large van about, but there was no tow tug in evidence for the first couple of days. Then the owner arrived and hitched up this monster to the back of his BT50 and drove out of the park. To say I was a little gobsmacked would be an understatement. It's no wonder Queensland has started blitzing overweight rigs when you see examples like that. The BT50, being the sister car to my Ranger, was a vehicle I had intimate knowledge of, and there is no way in hell that it could tow that van legally.

yobarr wrote:

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Ivan 01 wrote:

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Did anyone notice the pic of the Prado hooked to the horse float?

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 Well spotted Ivan! I've been busy for a few days, operating a 40 ton excavator and haven't had spare time. As you have noted that Prado is so far out of its depth that it us an accident looking for a place to happen. "We have a front caravan installed into the horsefloat too" the owner proudly says. Obviously NO understand of weights and dynamics, let alone the associated safety and insurance issues. But this almost fades into insignificance when we see the other chap saying that he tows either a "3.8 ton caravan or a 4.25 ton boat" with his Ram 1500. Stupidity in the extreme as these cars cannot safely tow more than around 3000kg as a PIG trailer. The fact that these two fellas happily publicly announce what they're doing shows that they have absolutely NO understanding of weights, the limitations of their cars, safety or that in the event of an accident they will likely have any insurance claim denied. Honestly, in my travels I've seen some ridiculous setups, but the chap in the Ram 1500 surely takes the cake. "Eats utes for breakfast" is the claim. Tritons maybe, but cars like Ranger, DMax, BT50 etc all can tow the same, or more weight as PIG trailers. Spare me! Cheers

P.S If a vehicle has a GVM above 4500kg ALWAYS the weight on its wheels must be greater than the weight on the  wheels of any PIG trailer it is towing. The sooner similar laws are introduced for ALL  towing vehicles the safer we all will be. 

P.P.S Recently I had a long chat at a free camp with a couple blissfully towing a 3500kg ATM van with a Ram 1500. After I showed them the facts and figures they looked at each other and said "We should have bought that Ram 2500 we looked at" and they agreed that they would buy a 2500 as soon as they could find one. Good deed for the day!

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 2nd of October 2022 05:08:21 PM

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Who are you?

What is your agenda?

This topic is about Electric Vehicles. NOT weights. Your WAY OFF TOPIC. And bad manners.

I have only started two topics and both times you chime in about weights. I chose to ignore you the first time. The last topic was about Van quality. (https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t68732278/new-van-advice-pls/)

 

Pls Read the subject line please before you post. 

 

If I want advice about weights I will speak to a professional, not someone that cant even stay on topic and worse still writes posts that are impossible to read as they just ramble on.

Please don't post here again unless its about EVs. If you find that difficult go away.