Kings Lithium Batteries

Dick0 · Guru

Kings Lithium Batteries

Mike Harding · Guru

I'm not always convinced of this argument but, currently with lithium batteries, my feeling is you get what you pay for.

yobarr · Guru

Dick0 wrote:
Kings are vigorously advertising 200AH LiFePO4 batteries at $818.95 delivered. Specs read well but they ommit whether these batteries can be connected in Parallel or Serial arrays. Such an important feature ommited from their advertising.
Wonder why?

Kings stuff usually is good value, but as Mike has suggested, with Lithium you get what you pay for. Good quality stuff sells for around $1000/100ah.

Because when I bought my Victron batteries I did not have the contacts I now have, I paid $1700/100ah, from memory? When purchasing anything to do with Solar it never is wise to buy El Cheapo.

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" . Benjamin Franklin? Cheers

travelyounger · Guru

Dont go to kings anymore everytime I go there I have to go back and you know what means

TravellerBob · Veteran Member

if you look on their website for the battery under the FAQs you will see that YES you can connect multiple batteries in series or parraallel connections

www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/products/battery-charger/kings-200ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery-quality-integrated-bms-2000-plus-cycles-long-life.html

Mike Harding · Guru

I'm currently thinking about buying some 280Ah LiFePO4 quality cells from China in order to make my own battery and these have a cycle life specified as 6000 at 0.5C at 25C,. I think this spec. is now fairly common in quality cells so 2000 cycle life batteries may not be as cost effective as they appear.

Dick0 · Guru

TravellerBob wrote:

if you look on their website for the battery under the FAQs you will see that YES you can connect multiple batteries in series or parraallel connections

www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/products/battery-charger/kings-200ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery-quality-integrated-bms-2000-plus-cycles-long-life.html

Different cost, perhaps different battery???

Could be the same but should be clearly stipulated in their adverts.

200Ah Lithium Battery + Rechargeable Lithium LED Worklight - 4WD Supacentre

-- Edited by Dick0 on Monday 6th of February 2023 04:15:00 PM

TravellerBob · Veteran Member

If you go the the link that you have provided and go to the FAQs you will clearly see that it states that they can be linked in series or parralled.

It is clearly stipulated in the advert.

If for some reason you still dont beleive the web page give them a ring

-- Edited by TravellerBob on Monday 6th of February 2023 07:14:13 PM

Dick0 · Guru

TravellerBob wrote:

If you go the the link that you have provided and go to the FAQs you will clearly see that it states that they can be linked in series or parralled.

It is clearly stipulated in the advert.
If for some reason you still dont beleive the web page give them a ring

-- Edited by TravellerBob on Monday 6th of February 2023 07:14:13 PM

Yes, seek and ye shall find.

Warren-Pat_01 · Guru

I learnt something from Kings - don't pay for items via a credit card as for some reason they cannot refund the money if the purchasers item fails within their warranty period. They are the only company that I've found to have this issue.

yobarr · Guru

Warren-Pat_01 wrote:
I learnt something from Kings - don't pay for items via a credit card as for some reason they cannot refund the money if the purchasers item fails within their warranty period. They are the only company that I've found to have this issue.

Thanks for that tip! Rarely do I buy from Kings, but this is good information to have. Bit weird though? Cheers

Kebbin · Guru

As I have been told a number of times "they don't make lightweight Lithium or Lead batteries" they just fudge on the actual size of these batteries. Here is a good site for battery info. 23kg for a 200 a/h battery is way under weight.

www.t1lithium.com.au/batteries/why-lithium.html~:text=A%20100Ah%20lithium%20battery%20weighs,when%20the%20battery%20is%20new.

TimTim · Senior Member

May I suggest that you go to some of the cell manufacturers sites to ascertain the weight of the cells.

230Ah @ 25kg https://www.basengreen.com/product/basen-12v-230ah-lifepo4-battery-pack-rechargeable-deep-cycles-max-4s4p/

EVE 105Ah cells 1980g+/-100g https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/EVE-Lifepo4-Battery-lf105-LFP-Batteries_62433665380.html?spm=a2700.shop_pl.41413.91.51b625dbBbU8Rp .

8 x 105Ah cells, add a BMS, bolts, busbars, cables, a case and some filling for the case and you can be well under 23kg. The technology is constantly changing and you are unable to ascertain whether a battery is good by the weight.

Kebbin · Guru

Tim how can I find out who manufactures the cells in these cheap batteries? The companies selling the drop ins are not going to give out that info.
The atomic weight of the main ingredients doesn't change so how do you make them significantly lighter? The outer casing could not loose enough weight to still have the integrity to hold it together.

-- Edited by Kebbin on Monday 13th of February 2023 03:06:52 PM

Scubadoo · Veteran Member

I am just adding 4x certified "A" grade EVE 280Ah cells to our existing 8 year old 300Ah LifePO4 battery.
The pack without BMS circuitry and no box weights 22kg.

-- Edited by Scubadoo on Monday 13th of February 2023 03:35:56 PM

TimTim · Senior Member

Hi Kebbin,

Unless the battery seller actually specifies the make of cells then you are never going to find out. In the Kings batteries they are in all probability cylindrical cells. Some battery sellers will specify that the batteries contain prismatic cells and some even specify the brand of cells but in the majority of cases you are never going to know.

I may be wrong but by my calculations there is approximately less than 200g of lithium in a 200Ah battery. That cant really change but the composition of the electrolyte and all the other components can.

Then you have the BMS. The cheaper batteries are going to have the cheapest BMS they can find which are much smaller and lighter than some of the quality ones. They most certainly wont weigh anywhere near what my Daly BMSs do. Here is a 100Ah battery with dual BMSs and still only weighs 11.2kg.

https://www.aussiebatteries.com.au/assets/files/datasheets/Giant-100Ah-Premium-Specs-Sheet-v1.pdf

I did read on a forum somewhere where someone opened up their battery to find concrete had been added .

Good luck

Whenarewethere · Guru

TimTim wrote:

Unless the battery seller actually specifies the make of cells then you are never going to find out.

Not only the make but also whether they are grade A, grade B or grade C.

TimTim · Senior Member

Whenarewethere wrote:
TimTim wrote:
Unless the battery seller actually specifies the make of cells then you are never going to find out.

Not only the make but also whether they are grade A, grade B or grade C.

You are forgetting A+, A++ and what ever else they want to call them as there is no specified grading regime.

Whenarewethere · Guru

I have recently had a runaway thermal event with a 18650 lithium iron battery. It was so hot I slightly burnt my fingers.

I chucked it in a metal container, then in water & put it well outside & kept an eye on it.

It took about 6 hours to cool down, but nevertheless was still warm. Left it in a safe place for another 24 hours.

A bit of an eye opener when this happened. I am so grateful that it was a single cell which was easy to isolate.

bobsa · Senior Member

The Kings 300watt lithium are prismatic cells

Greg 1 · Guru

Never experienced a thermal event with any of my lithium batteries, but I never leave my power tool batteries charging overnight Always take them off charge before locking up the workshop whether they are charged or not. Tomorrow is another day.

TimTim · Senior Member

Thanks for that. All Kings batteries now specify prismatic cells. At the time I posted they did not specify what type of cells they were. Maybe for the next step they may upgrade their BMS to be bluetooth capable smile .

JayDee · Guru

After taking advice from a Kings staff member re battery choice, I was unable to return the Lithium battery recommended by the so-called staff expert. I put my case to the manager of Kings, and he was sort of understanding my issue, but because I did not have the original box anymore ( went out with the trash) I couldn't get a refund.
I was prepared to spend the dollars on 2 deep cell batteries.

I guess it is live and learn, b ut Kings are not on my xmas list.

Jay&Dee