WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO.....

Dougwe · Chief one feather

WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO.....

yobarr · Guru

Dougwe wrote:
As the system/network should be good enough to give us a great signal at all times.
I have just added a Cel Fi Go signal booster to the aluminium tent.

Why I hear you ask? well, ever since late 2019 I have not had good Telstra cover on my phone or Wifi device. Other carriers are no different in the areas I have been. Having no TV signal worth speaking off I had to stream whatever. So, I had a chat to Telstra via the My Telstra App. Not a lot of success so posted a not so positive review. Telstra read it and made contact with me. After another longer chat on the phone this time, an appointment was made to visit the manager of the tech section in a Telstra store.
That turned out very successful indeed, but a tad on the costly side.
Enter the Cel Fi Go signal booster. Wow! This little bad boy actually boosted my signal strength on my phone and Wifi device from 1 bar to all bars smiling at me. The outside antenna is only about 75mm high and sits on the top of my aluminium tent. If I put it on my 5mt pole I reckon all those smiling bars will be actually laughing.
Thankyou Telstra.

We shouldn't have to do this though. Struth! We talked to a man on the moon back in the 1960's but can't talk to someone on a mobile phone the other side of the street in 2023.

Congratulations Doug, on choosing the Cel Fi Go. I've had one for several year and have NEVER had no signal, even in outback WA, NT etc and all across the Nullarbor. When I previously posted on this a few "Eggspurts" informed all and sundry that a Cel Fi Go was a waste of money etc etc. Didn't bother responding but my results speak for themselves. Well done you, and I'm sure that you'll be happy with your purchase. Cheers

P.S Be aware that a GOOD aerial is imperative. I've just bought a new, better, one so looking forward to going back over to WA next month.

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 2nd of April 2023 02:48:59 PM

Spin · Member

I have just ordered on to put in our little van to. I have a question for you both. How far away from the internal antenna does the phone work before it reverts back to going directly to the tower?

yobarr · Guru

Spin wrote:
I have just ordered on to put in our little van to. I have a question for you both. How far away from the internal antenna does the phone work before it reverts back to going directly to the tower?

Details tomorrow,if I find time, but it us absolutely CRITICAL that system be installed by trained Cel Fi Go tech, who knows what he's doing, NOT some well-intentioned person who THINKS he knows. He won't. Many variables such as distance between server and donor aerials. (antennae), having a metal shield between those two aerials, and directional antennae to push signal away or hide signal from donor. Cannot over-emphasise the use of Cel Fi Go trained tech. Cheers

P.S Make sure you get the "Wave" app.

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 2nd of April 2023 06:34:42 PM

Spin · Member

Thanks Yobarr, I will check back tomorrow.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Spin wrote:
I have just ordered on to put in our little van to. I have a question for you both. How far away from the internal antenna does the phone work before it reverts back to going directly to the tower?

G'day Spin,

I just tested it for you.

I got to a 27mt radius before signal dropped to 1 bar and showed it was still connected to the Cel Fi Go.

I set it all up myself following the easy to understand destructions. No pilot licence needed.

I put the outside antenna on top of the aluminium tent at the back and the internal one is just inside door a bed length from from The front. The outside one is going on top of a pole once I get a 5mt low loss SMA extension cable. The Cel Fi box is not quite where I want it for 12v power etc.

peter67 · Guru

On the practical side it would be handy to know the obvious. How much. Do you need to drill a hole in the roof. Power requirements please.

Dougwe · Chief one feather

G'day Peter,

I have one of these fitted to the side under awning.

Just be careful of any wires in the wall.

-- Edited by Dougwe on Monday 3rd of April 2023 12:07:30 PM

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Forgot to mention. It's just a cable from outside antenna into van. No power. All 12v power is hooked up inside van. They supply a cig lighter fitting but you can cut off and hard wire into 12v supply if wanted. I will be doing that when in it's final spot.

yobarr · Guru

Spin wrote:
Thanks Yobarr, I will check back tomorrow.

Hi. Further to my previous post I can add little bits if advice that may help you. The "Wave" app is critical as it shows signal quality, signal strength and, most importantly, antenna separation.

If the antennae are properly separated there will be "100%" on that display. The Cel Fi is in my car so that I always have coverage when driving, but I haved wired a repeater into my van.

Usually I get lazy and leave the system on "Automatic" but if tge signal strength on, say, 3G is only 2 bars good results can sometimes be achieved by manually switching to 4G, with signal strength immediately going to 5 bars.
Trial and error but when you're in the back of beyond there's generally plenty of time to spare!

Height of antenna is important so I have a 1200mm 7dBi aerial on top of my car's canopy, giving a total height of 3600mm which seems to work well.
Have been told that Cel Fi Go will boost the weakest signal by up to 1000 times, so well worth the money.

Also have Sat Phone and PLB, but never needed either.

Hope this is of some help to you, although there's lots more I could tell.

Maybe another time, but I'd like to iterate that it MUST be installed by Cel Fi Go trained personnel for best results. Good luck. Cheers

Dougwe · Chief one feather

Just did a screen shot of the Wave app. Pretty good for just a amateur install and the supplied 3" antenna of roof only. I hope to improve that once antenna is up higher or even at a later date fitting a car like antenna to the pole. It's just a case after a days drive to just up the pole and join two cables. I stay in one spot for lengthy times to enjoy the areas around. There is no hurry.

-- Edited by Dougwe on Monday 3rd of April 2023 12:47:05 PM

yobarr · Guru

Absolutely pouring rain here in the bush, with heavy low cloud cover, but still got this reading just now. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 3rd of April 2023 02:49:54 PM

Spin · Member

Dougwe wrote:
G'day Spin,
I just tested it for you.

I got to a 27mt radius before signal dropped to 1 bar and showed it was still connected to the Cel Fi Go.

Thanks for trying that. I'm in two minds on where to install. in the van or in the car. Or have aerials on both and swap the unit back and forth as required. There are good arguments for and against both.

yobarr wrote:
Hi. Further to my previous post I can add little bits if advice that may help you. The "Wave" app is critical as it shows signal quality, signal strength and, most importantly, antenna separation.
If the antennae are properly separated there will be "100%" on that display. The Cel Fi is in my car so that I always have coverage when driving, but I haved wired a repeater into my van.
Usually I get lazy and leave the system on "Automatic" but if tge signal strength on, say, 3G is only 2 bars good results can sometimes be achieved by manually switching to 4G, with signal strength immediately going to 5 bars.
Trial and error but when you're in the back of beyond there's generally plenty of time to spare!
Height of antenna is important so I have a 1200mm 7dBi aerial on top of my car's canopy, giving a total height of 3600mm which seems to work well.
Have been told that Cel Fi Go will boost the weakest signal by up to 1000 times, so well worth the money.
Also have Sat Phone and PLB, but never needed either.
Hope this is of some help to you, although there's lots more I could tell.
Maybe another time, but I'd like to iterate that it MUST be installed by Cel Fi Go trained personnel for best results. Good luck. Cheers

The wave app will be used. My dilemma for installing on the car is I have no roof racks or bars. The kit comes with a bulbar mounted antenna which will have to do for now unit I can sort something better. I could install the internal antenna in the canopy to give the best separation. This could also be useful when camp is setup as I normally park close to the van and the camp fire.

But if I install in the van I could put a Yagi on a short poll to give the Cel Fi Go the best chance of receiving a strong signal. The obvious problem here is I would lose the benefit while traveling.

At the moment we are only doing weekend and the occasional week long camp within a couple of hours from home but late next year I have a trip planned from east to west. this is when having it available while traveling will be useful.

I've played with radios on and off from the 70's and have some understanding of what should be placed where but have never installed anything in this frequency range. In saying that I do know the right peope to ask questions if I run into any trouble.

Spin.

Craig1 · Guru

There is no hurry.

Mana

yobarr · Guru

. I could install the internal antenna in the canopy to give the best separation. This could also be useful when camp is setup as I normally park close to the van and the camp fire.
But if I install in the van I could put a Yagi on a short poll to give the Cel Fi Go the best chance of receiving a strong signal. The obvious problem here is I would lose the benefit while travelling.

Putting the Cel Fi in the car is the better option as you still have it with you if you drop the van somewhere and go on day trips into the bush, over sand dunes, along the beach etc etc.

Simple to run a wire to a repeater in the van for best of both worlds when you're in the van.

You mention that your car has a canopy so there should be no reason that an antenna couldn't be installed either directly onto that canopy, or if it is a canvas or lightweight model, an aluminium frame could be built either over the top, or inside the canopy.

Other aerial could be installed in cab, out of direct line of sight to windows. Cheers

Without knowing your vehicle's exact setup it's hard to give too much help, but I'm sure there'd be an easy way around any problem.

Good luck. Cheers

Spin · Member

yobarr wrote:
. I could install the internal antenna in the canopy to give the best separation. This could also be useful when camp is setup as I normally park close to the van and the camp fire.
But if I install in the van I could put a Yagi on a short poll to give the Cel Fi Go the best chance of receiving a strong signal. The obvious problem here is I would lose the benefit while travelling.
Putting the Cel Fi in the car is the better option as you still have it with you if you drop the van somewhere and go on day trips into the bush, over sand dunes, along the beach etc etc.
Simple to run a wire to a repeater in the van for best of both worlds when you're in the van.
You mention that your car has a canopy so there should be no reason that an antenna couldn't be installed either directly onto that canopy, or if it is a canvas or lightweight model, an aluminium frame could be built either over the top, or inside the canopy.
Other aerial could be installed in cab, out of direct line of sight to windows. Cheers
Without knowing your vehicle's exact setup it's hard to give too much help, but I'm sure there'd be an easy way around any problem.
Good luck. Cheers

I am leaning towards the car for installation for the reasons you mention. I am interested to hear more about the repeater you mention. That would be the best of both worlds.

My car is a first gen Colorado with a low line ARB canopy. at the moment I'm hesitant to drill a hole in the roof of the canopy as I'm looking for a set of the internal support bars to put a rack on it. then I would definitely install the aerial on the rack.

I think I'm going to have to "make do" with the arial on the bulbar for now, until I can find the internal bars and a rack to mount it up high.

Spin.

-- Edited by Spin on Monday 3rd of April 2023 07:57:43 PM

yobarr · Guru

Spin wrote:
I am leaning towards the car for installation for the reasons you mention. I am interested to hear more about the repeater you mention. That would be the best of both worlds.
My car is a first gen Colorado with a low line ARB canopy. at the moment I'm hesitant to drill a hole in the roof of the canopy as I'm looking for a set of the internal support bars to put a rack on it. then I would definitely install the aerial on the rack.
I think I'm going to have to "make do" with the arial on the bulbar for now, until I can find the internal bars and a rack to mount it up high.
Spin.

You could consider mounting the aerial to a single bar rack across the roof of your car. A 1200mm aerial up there should give you close on 3 metres above ground, with clear 360 degree spread. Cheers

yobarr · Guru

Spin wrote:
I am interested to hear more about the repeater you mention. That would be the best of both worlds.

Here is picture for you. Unit is about 160mm square, has a pivot to point it where you want, and simply is screwed to a wall anywhere in van. Good luck. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 4th of April 2023 07:52:53 AM

yobarr · Guru

Today's figures, just now. Still in bush, still raining heavily, still heavy cloud cover. Cheers

Spin · Member

yobarr wrote:
You could consider mounting the aerial to a single bar rack across the roof of your car. A 1200mm aerial up there should give you close on 3 metres above ground, with clear 360 degree spread. Cheers

Now that would be too sensible. I didn't even think of a nonintrusive roof bar. I'm trying to not put holes in the roof if I don't need to.

Spin · Member

Yobarr wrote:
Spin wrote:
I am interested to hear more about the repeater you mention. That would be the best of both worlds.
Here is picture for you. Unit is about 160mm square, has a pivot to point it where you want, and simply is screwed to a wall anywhere in van. Good luck. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 4th of April 2023 07:52:53 AM

Thanks for that. I will look into one of those as well.

Spin · Member

The Cel-Fi turned up this afternoon. I opened the packaging and it got the better of me. For now the antennas are installed on the bulbar and inside the canopy.

I will get some testing done on the weekend but for now below is the wave app. Normally I have 2 bars on the Samsung S9

yobarr · Guru

Spin wrote:
The Cel-Fi turned up this afternoon. I opened the packaging and it got the better of me. For now the antennas are installed on the bulbar and inside the canopy.
I will get some testing done on the weekend but for now below is the wave app. Normally I have 2 bars on the Samsung S9

Good results there. You no doubt know that signal quality is a lot more important than is signal strength. Cheers

PeterX · Senior Member

RE "...The system/network should be good enough to give us a great signal at all times....." 1) On edge of network signal will not be good. 2) Your phone may have a "not the best" (internal) antenna 3) a external antenna would have to give a better signal than a "built in" antenna that most phones have these days ....

Gundog · Guru

Cel fi Go is this an advertising program for a commercial product, because to me this is it appears to be.

So in a nutshell the unit is like the Liner Amplifiers we used to use in the old 27mhz CB Days.

The reality we were sold a buck of shiit, NBN by the previous labor government, when Wimax would bave been a better solution. then the need for van fi and cel fi would never been needed.

Mike Harding · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Wimax would bave been a better solution.

Wikipedia informs Wimax is a microwave based protocol not dissimilar to existing mobile phone protocols. That being the case it will suffer from exactly the same distance limitations as all mobile phones since the dawn of (mobile phone) time. ie. it is "Line of Sight" reception only which, given the curvature of the earth limits its useful range to about 30km in reasonably flat country, much less in hilly country.

Australia is an unusual example in mobile type communications in that we have a vast country and a small population and the only known technologies which will resolve those conflicts are satellit and HF radio.

The Cel-Fi thingie is a quality, although expensive, product but has been superseded by much cheaper 4G and 5G modems which support "Voice over WiFi" enabling normal mobile handsets to be used.

Cuppa · Guru

I know nothing about Wimax, but in an attempt to summarise the other options in a way which makes sense to me (& hopefully anyone else confused by suggestions that Cel-Fi go is outdated).

- Cel Fi Go works well for folk who want to improve a minimal phone signal in order to get internet access on their phone.

- Having access to satellite internet in an RV is basically restricted to Starlink.

- Access to NBN internet can be via phone lines, fixed wireless or satellite for folk at fixed locations.

- Wifi calling on phones which support it can be utilised when there is a poor or no phone signal if seperate access to the internet is available.

- Without separate internet access wifi calling is not an option but Cel Fi Go extends the distance from the phone tower that useable internet can be obtained via 4g/5G modems & phones

- Similarly I believe that 4G/ 5G Modems have a greater sensitivity (than phones) enabling them to pick up (& boost?) the 4G/5G data signal - which a 4G/5G phone can then utilise to provide wifi calling.

- So I think it is probably correct to claim that "The Cel-Fi thingie is a quality, although expensive, product but has been superseded by much cheaper 4G and 5G modems which support "Voice over WiFi" enabling normal mobile handsets to be used".

- The unknown (to me) aspect is whether there is any difference in the ability for either Cel Fi Go or a 4G/5G modem to pick up & boost a poor signal. Are both equally capable at the extremities of where a phone can pick up a signal?

- If each have much the same capability in that respect then the Cel Fi Go by virtue of it's much higher cost is the 'dinosaur' (which still works).

- However the bottom line for anyone travelling within the huge areas of Australia where there is no phone signal at all is that neither Cel-fi Go nor 4G/5G modems are going to help other than saving a handful of kilometres drive to the nearest town/community to obtain a signal.

Do I have this correct?

-- Edited by Cuppa on Monday 17th of April 2023 09:20:24 AM

Gundog · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Wimax would bave been a better solution.
Wikipedia informs Wimax is a microwave based protocol not dissimilar to existing mobile phone protocols. That being the case it will suffer from exactly the same distance limitations as all mobile phones since the dawn of (mobile phone) time. ie. it is "Line of Sight" reception only which, given the curvature of the earth limits its useful range to about 30km in reasonably flat country, much less in hilly country.
Australia is an unusual example in mobile type communications in that we have a vast country and a small population and the only known technologies which will resolve those conflicts are satellit and HF radio.
The Cel-Fi thingie is a quality, although expensive, product but has been superseded by much cheaper 4G and 5G modems which support "Voice over WiFi" enabling normal mobile handsets to be used.

You are right Mike, Wimax was the gold standard WiFi that was used by WRE (Weapons Reserch Establisment) in SA, it was the prefered over very costly NBN by liberal party lead by TA.

Fibre NBN was marketed very well by the then Labor gov lead by KR targeting the young with the promise of highspeed internet, in reality affordable NBN speed was 25 or 50Mbps, after that it became too expensive, I was living in Melb where I had NBN FTTH, it rarely acheived the speed I was paying for. I solved the problem myself finding out the issue was with SP's supplied router/modems which caused a bottle neck in their design, how I resolved the problem was connecting the Cat5 cable directly from wall to network card in the comupter. Instantly I was hitting 50Mbps all the time. To have wifi for the house I then added a quality WiFi router.

But the issue is still the limitations with all forms of the NBN, as soon as you leave home you have to rely on you smart device be it phone or whatever, and as the users come on line you speed slows.

Successive governments have spent billion of dollars on a dud, had they built the australian network using Wimax and the evolution of it would have been a fully transportable internet, requiring a single account.

The Cel Fi Go is an expensive repeater that my understanding is it will connect to the strongest 3/4g signal but then the problem is the phone cannot select the frequency with the highest data transfer rate, for us outside the urban areas band 28 700mHz is the best, depending on the towers near you say Mount Julian Cell 778MHz 395Mbps, band 3 1800MHz freq 1815 same speed speed i is dependant on the antenna MIMO array, go to a little town in Qld, Nebo the best your gunna get is 97Mbps on band 28, where as at Bowen band 3 ranges from 148 to 1582Mbps.

In reality all you get from a Cel Fi Go is a couple of Km extra range, get about 8k out of Collinsville you will have SFA.

Mike Harding · Guru

Hi Gundog

In my opinion government should have concentrated upon providing quality NBN to rural areas and left the cities to the commercial market to sort out but specifying there had to be system compatibility. Business is never going to put any more effort/money into rural areas than it has to because there are simply not enough people for them to get the return they seek. Indeed government could have put a tax/levy on city NBN and used that to partly finance rural.

The Cel-Fi is simply a micro power cellular repeater, the main reason it works better than a handset is because it has an external antenna whereas the antenna in handsets is very much a compromise and with virtually zero handsets having external antenna capabilities it was the only option for a while but, as I mentioned previously, with the advent of quality cellular modems with external antennas and (the game changer) Voice over WiFi the same end result may be obtained for far less cost.

In all these systems the magic is in the antenna and if one really wishes to maximise a cell phone then a 10 or 12 or more element yagi antenna at the top of a fibreglass pole and *quality* low loss cable to the modem and correct orientation of the yagi could, maybe, give you another 30km+ in non hilly country. But if comms are that important to you then satellite or HF is a better bet.

yobarr · Guru

In reality all you get from a Cel Fi Go is a couple of Km extra range, get about 8k out of Collinsville you will have SFA.

Surely you jest? I travel extensively all over Australia and I have NEVER been without signal.

At present I am about to again cross the Nullarbor, and have just fitted another aerial to my CelFi Go. Last trip I had signal all the way over.

Do you have direct experience with CelFi or are you just rattling on about something you don't really understand? No matter what the books, and theory, might say there is no substitute for hands-on experience.

I'll let you know how I go in a couple of days. Bit of a rush trip across, as I thought that I'd retired, but when I was in Newcastle I got a call asking me return to WA to drive Roadtrains. More money, better deal all round. Cheers