mike g g wrote:

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I'm wondering if any jeep grand cherokee towers have fitted a catch can and if so what do they think worthwhile,or not and what brand have they fitted .also have they encounterd any issues thanks

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 You might consider simply deleting the EGR, which is common practice, if people that I meet on my travels are any guide.

Been told that it's a simple and cost effective procedure which is carried out by many car owners?  

Might be worth looking in to? Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 7th of April 2023 11:03:04 AM

Cassie63 wrote:

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Interfering with EGR and DPF is illegal, part of the pollution management system.

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I don't give a toss.

My Holden Trailblazer with 43,000km has just been diagnosed by a Holden dealer as requiring a new inlet manifold because the EGR valve/system has failed due to carbon build-up. The existing manifold cannot be cleaned as it's moulded polymer and the carbon integrates with the polymer. This is a three day job for the dealer and will cost a *considerable* sum, fortunately Holden are covering it under warranty however: I'm damn sure they won't be when it happens again at 86,000km!

So you can stuff your legality, as soon as the vehicle is out of new car warranty that bloody EGR valve is going!

Cassie63 wrote:

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Interfering with EGR and DPF is illegal, part of the pollution management system.

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 You are correct Cassie63.

I have a catch can fitted to my LC 200 as a recommendation from a very knowledgeable mechanic that advised me.
I checked the regulations at the time and two options was to either alter the Gas Recirculating Valve which was illegal and rendered your car defective or fit a Catch Can which as explained to me catches the oil and prevents manifold clogging up as can be experienced with Toyotas and now obviously Holden Trailblazers.

At the time a correctly fitted catch can was completely legal. The fitting of one does cause the need for extra servicing of the can at a regular interval.

The modification of an EGR valve if detected can cause you to receive a *yellow sticker or in the case on inspection, the refusal of the issue of a rego slip for renewal.

Suggesting to remove the valve is not the best advice that anyone without the knowledge of actual legal ramifications is not something that should be openly stated on a public forum.

Re (Suggesting to remove the valve is not the best advice that anyone without the knowledge of actual legal ramifications is not something that should be openly stated on a public forum.)

And if not legal, would this be an "out" for a low cost Insurance company in the case of an accident with your vehicle. To me a Provent CC is the way to go with regular checks on the cartridge, and some serious though on the CC placement eg NOT above the exhaust pipe..

-- Edited by PeterInSa on Friday 7th of April 2023 09:21:22 AM

-- Edited by PeterInSa on Friday 7th of April 2023 09:22:34 AM

Catch can is a must on a 200 series Landcruiser diesel. Cannot comment on petrol.
The problem is with the design of the engine. The PCV valve sits directly on top of the
cam chain on the left bank. Whilst there is a deflector, it is not terribly effective. Also
the VDJ200 engine does generate quite a bit of crankcase vapour.
Without a catch can, oil vapour find their way in the intercooler. That in itself is not
a huge problem. Unfortunately some of this oils also finds itself in the turbo. This can
and has caused failure of the inlet turbine. Many reasons as to why the failure. One of
the many explanation could be the out of balance due to the oil.
Toyota never addressed this as most if not all the failures had occurred when the car
was out of warranty and the new V6 was well and truly in the pipeline.
I do not believe blocking the EGR valve will have an impact on the amount of oil
being collected in a catch can. Blocking the EGR valve is mainly to minimise the amount
of soot gathering in the inlet manifold. Diesel being such an oily fuel compared to
petrol will promote soot particles to stick and eventually reduce the size of ports in
the inlet manifold. Any number of examples on YouTube.
Turbo is an option for the Jeep Grand Cherokee. As Watsea mentioned, Jeep Owners
Forum should have the answers or the suggestions. At the end of the day the fitment
of a catch can is not bad thing to do.
If using a Provent (cannot comment on others) you may want to consider piping
a collection bottle of sort as the unit does not hold a lot of oil. Depending on how hard
the engine is working on our landcruiser is how much oil it will 'catch'. No pun intended.
I have collected up to 1000ml over 10K kms.

Re (Some catch cans supposedly are better than others ie they are more efficient at catching the material, some have pressure relief valves so internal pressures are not excessive,)

My understanding is that the Provent CC have 2 Relief Valves 1 on the inlet side to relieve High Pressure, 1 on the outlet side to relieve Low Pressure.

However to me if the cartridge is not checked at the required time or because of engine use conditions , Oil/Oil vapour could leak out of the relief valves onto hot engine parts, that's why the mounting location must be well thought out.

Note I understand, some CC's NOT Provent do not have any Relief valves, which may create engine problems, depending upon the design of the CC.

-- Edited by PeterInSa on Friday 7th of April 2023 01:50:11 PM

PeterInSa wrote:

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Re (Some catch cans supposedly are better than others ie they are more efficient at catching the material, some have pressure relief valves so internal pressures are not excessive,)

My understanding is that the Provent CC have 2 Relief Valves 1 on the inlet side to relieve High Pressure, 1 on the outlet side to relieve Low Pressure.

However to me if the cartridge is not checked at the required time or because of engine use conditions , Oil/Oil vapour could leak out of the relief valves onto hot engine parts, that's why the mounting location must be well thought out.

Note I understand, some CC's NOT Provent do not have any Relief valves, which may create engine problems, depending upon the design of the CC.

-- Edited by PeterInSa on Friday 7th of April 2023 01:50:11 PM

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 My CC is a Provent. Yes, there are pressure relief valves and the operating instructions say to drain the CC at appropriate intervals. My CC is fitted with a length of hose that acts as reservoir for the collected waste.  The hose hangs and is mounted through the engine bay, with a valve at the lower end. I drain the waste sludge at 5,000km intervals.  I read that the Provent CC filter elements should be changed at intervals of 40,000kms at the most. I change mine at 30,000km intervals. The filter elements are not cheap.

deverall11 wrote:

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Bulldozer wrote:

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My mate has a '14 Grand Cherokee 3.0 diesel, 130,000k no catch can. plenty of oil changes though. All good.

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Mix exhaust gases, soot and diesel fuel for long enough and the result is as per the above picture.

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  Settle back there! The last thing that the "Head in the sand" brigade needs is a lesson in facts and common sense. Too much logic involved? Cheers

Yep engine is running like a dream. So there you go.

deverall11 wrote:

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Catch can is a must on a 200 series Landcruiser diesel. Cannot comment on petrol.
The problem is with the design of the engine. The PCV valve sits directly on top of the
cam chain on the left bank. Whilst there is a deflector, it is not terribly effective. Also
the VDJ200 engine does generate quite a bit of crankcase vapour.
Without a catch can, oil vapour find their way in the intercooler. That in itself is not
a huge problem. Unfortunately some of this oils also finds itself in the turbo. This can
and has caused failure of the inlet turbine. Many reasons as to why the failure. 

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 2015 LC200 diesel, no DPF............ never heard of a catch can before I read here somewhere.

No problems at all @ 120,000Km, goes like a rocket.

Cuppa wrote:

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PeterInSa wrote:

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Re (Some catch cans supposedly are better than others ie they are more efficient at catching the material, some have pressure relief valves so internal pressures are not excessive,)

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 A warning to anyone thinking pf saving a few bucks on a catch can. 

A few years back I bought a Provent copy catch can for my 4.2 Patrol. There are many lookalikes around & I chose a mid priced one with what appeared to be a pressure relief valve. I tossed the filter supplied with it & fitted a genuine Provent (Mann) one. 

It was a disaster. I spent a week or so testing it & found virtually nothing in the catch can & not long after started getting leaks from the rock box gasket which had blown. The gasket had never been an issue previously. I removed the catch can & binned, & gave the filter to a mate who was fitting a catch can to his 3 litre Patrol. On the basis of my experience he bought a genuine Provent & has had no issues with it. I have had no further issues with leaks in my car, & now consider the catch can was not worth the bother on my motor. 

 

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 Good advice from Peter and Cuppa.

As it was explained to me, only buy the genuine Provent Brand.

Apparently according to a mechanic friend the LCOOL forum had all the accurate and true information on there when it came to their use on Toyotas.

I cant comment on the OP question and Deveralls comments are interesting. 
My Catch Can collects about 400 ml in 10000 Kls which is an easy service item.

All I do is inform the workshop to empty it on every service and then check that they have.

I talked to a guy that had a 2013 LC 200 and his blocked up at 12000 klms and it cost him big dollars to have it fixed. The workshop that did the repair fitted a Provent CC and at the time t he mechanic explained the legality problem of removing or blocking the EGR.

When I had my CC fitted I am sure the mechanic told me it can throw a fault code so that its modification can easily be detected.

mike g g wrote:

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I'm wondering if any jeep grand cherokee towers have fitted a catch can and if so what do they think worthwhile,or not and what brand have they fitted .also have they encounterd any issues thanks

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 Sorry mike, I am not going to be totally honest and add anything beneficial to the discussion but I am curious, your Jeep I take from the discussion has a Landcruiser 200 motor?

If not what 3 litre motor is it?

I believe if it is the bute V6 diesel motor, the fitting of a "catch can" is not impossible but a very awkward addition to this motor.

I also know an replacement EGR valve on a V6 is fairly expensive at about 90 000ks, a 4 digit operation. Takes the cream off owning this brilliant motor and then to look forward to repeating it down the track again, possibly earlier next time.

 

Bobdown wrote:

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deverall11 wrote:

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Catch can is a must on a 200 series Landcruiser diesel. Cannot comment on petrol.
The problem is with the design of the engine. The PCV valve sits directly on top of the
cam chain on the left bank. Whilst there is a deflector, it is not terribly effective. Also
the VDJ200 engine does generate quite a bit of crankcase vapour.
Without a catch can, oil vapour find their way in the intercooler. That in itself is not
a huge problem. Unfortunately some of this oils also finds itself in the turbo. This can
and has caused failure of the inlet turbine. Many reasons as to why the failure. 

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 2015 LC200 diesel, no DPF............ never heard of a catch can before I read here somewhere.

No problems at all @ 120,000Km, goes like a rocket.

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    Don't know what to make of comments from you and others along the lines: 'never heard of it' blah blah blah.

There is/was a forum dedicated to landcruisers called LCOOL.ORG. It is temporarily out of order. On this forum there

was a lot of information being shared from real experience. I could just about say that collectively the LC200 part

of it probably knew more then the all dealers in Australia. Having said that, whilst I have no doubt your LC200

'goes like a rocket', before making uneducated comments may I suggest that you research the subject. Berrima Diesel

Services in NSW, a reputable diesel workshop, is one of many that supports the need for a catch can. 

   Plenty of instances on YouTube that have images like the photo posted on here.

No doubt you will find a way to criticise what I have just typed. Trying to help here but some just cannot be helped. 

.......

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 Deverall, just highlighting your post that they are a MUST on Cruisers, not criticising, just querying. If so why aren't they installed by the manufacturer?

I don't have grease under my fingernails and have no idea what I'm looking at under the bonnet of any vehicle, first to admit it.

Sometimes all this aftermarket stuff ( chips, cans etc) just interferes with running of the original equipment IMHO, where do you stop?

 

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 Bobdown, if you were to read my initial post I do explain the inherent design fault in the engine and

the possible reason why it was not addressed. I get your point but catch can not the same as chip.

Chip is a performance enhancement, catch can is similar to regular oil changes. When I say a 'must',

it took me a long time and a lot of reading on LCOOL.ORG to appreciate what it was they were on about.

I too had the similar view. What a waste of money I thought. Then I understood why. Things like oil in

the intercooler, turbo failure (left bank) where the cam chain is and the PCV is. So I bit the bullet, bought

one and installed it. No more oil in the intercooler, and about 1000 ml per 10k km. This is oil that would've

found its way in places unwanted.

As a side issue, the first versions of the VDJ200 used oil like nobody's business. The engineers at Toyota

found there was a problem with the vacuum pump. They were able to fix this with the next generations

of engines. Issues with unwanted oil in the intercooler causing possible turbo failure were not addressed

possibly because all were out of warranty and they were already developing the next generation of engines

to power the LC300 being a V6.

The reality for engine and car manufacturers these days is they have t deal with a whole lot of regulations

that relate to pollution. Different requirements by different markets. One size does not fit all. For example

back in the days of early Holdens, the PCV pipe ran down the side of the engine and on the road. That's

how it was back then.