Any Poms about?

Bobdown · Guru

Any Poms about?

Basher · Senior Member

There are plenty on here, give them time and they will start whinging biggrin biggrin
Basher

-- Edited by Basher on Monday 3rd of July 2023 09:52:20 AM

rgren2 · Guru

Not in the spirit of the game. Haaaaaaaa, ask the Kiwis.

Craig1 · Guru

Even a video of the said Jonny trying the same thing against our Mighty Marnus in the 1st innings. A few incidents from perfect (their )coach McCullam as well.

Don't forget our girls either, fair dishing it up to Pommettes.

Greg 1 · Guru

Poms wrote the rule book and now they are whinging about it. Never happy unless they are winning of course.

DMaxer · Guru

I support all our sporting teams except our mens cricket team. Gave up on them about 15 years ago. Arrogant self centred cheats. When they get called out their response is always the same, the others are doing it. It was a low act by Carey but what do you expect with sandpaper man and the ones who knew nothing all cheering him on. Imagine Chappell, Taylor or Waugh letting that happen. I hope they lose the next three, perfect karma.

Bobdown · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
I support all our sporting teams except our mens cricket team. Gave up on them about 15 years ago. Arrogant self centred cheats. When they get called out their response is always the same, the others are doing it. It was a low act by Carey but what do you expect with sandpaper man and the ones who knew nothing all cheering him on. Imagine Chappell, Taylor or Waugh letting that happen. I hope they lose the next three, perfect karma.

Bairstow did exactly the same thing to Marnus in this Test..... and McCallum (coach) did it when he was a wicketkeeper.

Shameful Poms are sore losers after the Starc catch was denied.

DMaxer, you never want to lose to the Poms in any sport. smile

Craig wrote.....Even a video of the said Jonny trying the same thing against our Mighty Marnus in the 1st innings. A few incidents from perfect (their )coach McCullam as well.

Apologies old chap, didn't see your post referring to same thing.

Cheers Bob

-- Edited by Bobdown on Monday 3rd of July 2023 04:34:35 PM

yobarr · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
Poms wrote the rule book and now they are whinging about it. Never happy unless they are winning of course.

Hmmm. That'd be an example of the Pot calling the Kettle Black if ever there was one.

DMaxer hit the nail on the head with his comment "Arrogant self-centred cheats".

And I'm not a Pom. Cheers

fwdoz · Guru

Stuart Broad taking the high moral ground was the hilarious part, given his chequered history.

landy · Guru

DMaxer wrote:

I support all our sporting teams except our mens cricket team. Gave up on them about 15 years ago. Arrogant self centred cheats. When they get called out their response is always the same, the others are doing it.
It was a low act by Carey but what do you expect with sandpaper man and the ones who knew nothing all cheering him on.
Imagine Chappell, Taylor or Waugh letting that happen. I hope they lose the next three, perfect karma.

The poms have obviously got all the sandpaper under lock and key DMaxer.
Landy

The Belmont Bear · Guru

The poms whinging about Bairstow being stumped for being outside of his ground is hypercritical garbage considering the footage of Bairstow trying to do the same thing earlier in the game. The coach calling foul has a similar smell to it when he was famous for trying to get people out in so called unsportman like ways. Calling someone a cheat is pretty low when nothing they did was outside the laws of the game - you may call them unsporting but it definately wasnt cheating. Dmaxer you ditched your support of the Aussie cricket team and labelled them all as cheats because of an incident that happened involving 3 players some years ago ? That is an insult not only to those who currently represent this country but probably to those who have worn the baggy green over the last 150 years. Maybe you should go and line up with your mates in the long room.

BB

DMaxer · Guru

The Belmont Bear wrote:
The poms whinging about Bairstow being stumped for being outside of his ground is hypercritical garbage considering the footage of Bairstow trying to do the same thing earlier in the game. The coach calling foul has a similar smell to it when he was famous for trying to get people out in so called unsportman like ways. Calling someone a cheat is pretty low when nothing they did was outside the laws of the game - you may call them unsporting but it definately wasnt cheating. Dmaxer you ditched your support of the Aussie cricket team and labelled them all as cheats because of an incident that happened involving 3 players some years ago ? That is an insult not only to those who currently represent this country but probably to those who have worn the baggy green over the last 150 years. Maybe you should go and line up with your mates in the long room.
BB

I think perhaps BB it might be an idea to brush up on your comprehension and maths skills before launching into an attack on my opinion. I ceased following the Australian cricket team towards the end of the Ponting era. The incident in South Africa occurred five years ago. Time travels quickly when you have something you want the public to forget doesn't it.

I have been lucky enough to be in the UK on several occasions when the Ashes have been contested and the one thing that I always appreciated is that the Poms applaud good cricket. They are ferocious on their own when they fail or do not achieve what was expected. Cricket in the UK is followed only by a certain class. The working class have little interest and it is the domain of the so called middle class and above that are the supporters.

I first gave up as a follower after witnessing years of arrogance and bad sportsmanship, mutual admiration when ever a wicket fell, the send offs, the spitting, the abuse. They were all good cricket players but left a lot to be desired as sportsmen.

That episode in SA in 2018 was an utter disgrace. To expect that the Australian public, in fact the World public, would believe that two batters alone devised a plan to make the ball reverse without any other knowledge or input is absurd. It is a bit like having your two opening bowlers selecting which bats the openers should use. How did the camera man know to focus on Bancroft. Others must have known and tipped them off. All we got was "everyone else is doing it" as an excuse. Note how reverse swing is no longer in the Aussie bowlers game. That debacle was then fixed by appointing a bloke that sends lewd texts.

The Aussies were happy to claim catches that were adjudicated on in their favour, however, when the catch of Starc was overruled, the batter had already walked and he was recalled. What happened next, you may ask? The Aussies then gave him a gob full, as if he had any control. He had walked.

It doesn't matter what Bairnstow or McCullum may have done or tried to do. That is not the test. It is what sporting mettle we possess and the answer is precious little. The Long Room dissatisfaction of the Aussies is quite understandable in my view. They are the same people that the day before stood and applauded the bravery of Lyon going out to bat although badly injured. I don't think there has ever been a demonstration like that at Lords, especially in the members.

The only people who are insulting those "who have worn the baggy green over the last 150 years" are the present players. I have had the privilege on a few occasions to be in the Long Room and I would be happy to "line up" there again if I was that lucky. They are knowledgeable and mostly former players both at county and test level from which we could learn a lot, especially in the areas of class and sportsmanship.

The team disappoints me. Good players but extremely low rent. Funnily, Clive Lloyd's great teams of the late seventies and eighties never needed to do this. I was in the UK in the early eighties on one of their tours. The grounds were packed and the locals cheered them on when they totally annihilated the Poms all because they enjoy their cricket and appreciated greatness.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Tuesday 4th of July 2023 10:24:47 AM

rgren2 · Guru

Greg 1 · Guru

The fact remains that a rule is a rule is a rule until it isn't. As a school boy, the first rule we were taught was never leave your crease unless you were running or the ball was declared dead by the umpire. What Carey did was clever cricket. Bairstow had been inclined to leave his crease on more than one occasion and Carey was watching for him to do it again. If you look at the camera angle from behind Carey, the ball actually leaves his hand before Bairstow's back foot leaves the crease. Carey had anticipated what Bairstow would do and capitalised on it. Instead of criticism, Carey should be praised for his quick thinking and excellent wicket keeping, which was well inside the rules as written by the rules committee of the MCC and upheld by the umpires and the members of that rules committee. It's a bit like saying that you don't agree with a judges decision, even though he has upheld the letter of the law. If you don't like the rules, then you have to ask to have them changed, but until they are I refer to my first sentence. As a lawyer, DMaxer, you of all people should understand that principle. In motorsport, we often have losing teams throw the cheating word around against the front runners but seldom willing to put their money on the line for an official protest. If you are not doing well in sport, sometimes it is just a case of you need to lift your game.

rmoor · Senior Member

What the England coach and keeper are forgetting is that they too have committed the same offence. McCallum with Murali as he walked down to congratulate Sangakarra on a century and Bairstow twice before allegedly. How can you accuse when they are guilty themselves. I was disgusted with the underarm incident and thought the sandpaper incident should have attracted life bans. One wonders just how many more in that team were aware of the sandpaper being used.
This current issue is a difficult one. I once recalled a (very good) batsman when a ball hit the joint and shot along the wicket at mulligrubber level. The local rule was out and he was about 25 yards away walking off when he was recalled. Our absent captain on the day, a hard nosed former Sydney first grade batsman was aghast at what we had done. Hey, we won anyway? That act cemented a healthy respect between those two sides for years and we could actually get in the pub after games then. So there are two schools of thought. Those opponents were tough as, the ball would come back at you from both ends!! The ball was constantly running past you at the wicket from the keeper and that kept you on your toes and it IS in the rules of the game.
I was never a "walker" and few batsman are, only Adam Gilchrist comes to mind. My theory is that I copped more bad LBW decisions and caught behind off the pads etc for it to be an evener? Doesn't make you popular with the keeper though when you stand your ground? So, was I a cheat? If Bairstow snicks one (like Broad did to first slip and stood his ground once) is he too then a cheat? If he is, then there are hundreds of thousands of historical non walking cheats in the game then.
my former grade club captain when I went to Sydney from the bush after making big scores in the bush was dropped from the Aust team for claiming a fair catch (v Pakistan I think) and it was an ugly look. I laughed watching it live when Bairstow was out because I thought it was dumb and arrogant batting. A player of his experience should not have been in that position himself, so bad luck.
All those balls that shot past me years ago while batting were a reminder to be alert, same game, same team had a fast bowler, who, when hooked for four, lookout next ball, at least you knew there was chin music coming, no helmets back then, but hey, that is all part of the game....
Same as this situation, play up, play up and play the game.
I think the poms are weak, sore losers and are ruining the game with their awful short pitched bowling on doctored wickets with this stupid Bazball rubbish. They are poor losers, they cannot whinge about Carey when they have committed the exact same act themselves and need to be reminded of that.

rmoor · Senior Member

Well said Greg. Good words. The first thing after playing a ball is to make good your ground and stay there until taking guard. It is a simple fundamental of the game. The instinctive reaction should be to ground your bat and stay behind the line, unless of course if stroked to mid on or mid off. How many times have you seen an angry, frustrated bowler ping the ball back at the batsman. Many times even when they know they are in their crease anyway. Is that cheating pinging the ball back at a batsman out of his ground? Why is it different for a keeper? If the poms want to make a big thing of it, Aussie officials should say, OK then lads, for the rest of this series, no more pinging from keepers or bowlers, no Mankading and if you snick one YOU MUST WALK prior to the umpire raising the finger.

Pigs will fly over Headingly then.

rgren2 · Guru

Just where is it not in the spirit of the game? Bowlers exploit batters weaknesses, captains set fields to exploit weaknesses, a wicketkeeper can exploit a batsmans weakness. Underarm bowling is allowed if both captains agree. Its just gamesmanship now, try to rattle the opposition, just another form of sledging. Poms are upset at being beaten by their own strategies.

DMaxer · Guru

I have not said it is against the rules. It is within the rules. I just think it is poor form.

I did not mind when Broad stood his ground after clearly edging a ball. he is there to bat, not to umpire. In the present case,it was not a case of the batsman attempting a run or the player at the bowler's end trying to gain a distance advantage before the ball was delivered, it was just a batter having a wander after the ball had passed him and was in the keeper's gloves. The fact that Carey rolled the ball towards the stumps before Bairnstow wandered makes it even worse. At that point there was nothing the batter was doing that was wrong.

I played grade in Sydney and never walked in my life. I figured it made up for some of the calls that I considered were wrong. Likewise, I was always instructed that I was there to bat, not to umpire. I also learned that if you are going to try and dismiss people in unorthodox ways you give them a warning. I would wander at times only to hear a gruff voice say "stay in your crease or you are gone next time son".

You don't justify poor sportsmanship by declaring that the person on the receiving end this time was also a perpetrator. If Bairnstow had claimed a wicket this way I am totally sure the members would have given him the same serve.

As I said, they are very good cricketers but just low rent. They are disliked wherever they tour, and it not because they are winning. The world idolised the Windies when they were on top, not so with this lot.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Tuesday 4th of July 2023 01:15:28 PM

Basher · Senior Member

A bit different with Broad, when you middle the ball straight to the slips. biggrin Then stand there as he did!!

Basher

Craig1 · Guru

Our Albo has climbed on the bandwagon for Aussies as well.

Whoops he may cancel the Submarines again.

rmoor · Senior Member

Been giving this some thought. In my latter years on the field I did probably in total 4 seasons keeping, some of it to some quality representative spinners. I cannot recall ever thinking of taking the opportunity of knocking a batsman over once the ball was gloved and play stalled? Just chuck it to gully and get on with the game. So, I guess I am saying that it is a part of the game that should command some respect. It is a difficult one, I suppose if a batsman was arrogantly taking advantage after the ball was gloved to chat to his mate or tap down a divot then I think it would warrant a warning. In retrospect I think Carey should have had a bit of a chat to Bairstow and if he arrogantly ignored the warning, then open season.
The shame of it all is it will probably spoil the Headingly test and the two after that. What I am fast getting disappointed in is the constant boring short pitched stuff. If England are so keen on bright attractive cricket then why do they persist with such negative boring tactics. They started it bouncing our tail relentlessly in game one. There will be no apologies forthcoming, I am still waiting for mine after Geoffrey Boycott told me to "P**s orf kid" in 70/71 when I approached him at the end of the day at a closed net session on the old SCG no 2 for an autograph. I will say this tho, Colin Cowdrey is(was) the most wonderful, respectful, kind gent that should be the role model for all cricketers at all levels. Alas, this is not so.

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Dmaxer dont worry about my mathematical skills or powers of comprehension you accused the whole Australian cricket team of being cheats. I have no problem with anyone calling them out for unsportsman like behaviour or of being arrogannr which Is a matter of opinion anyway. The only cheating incident I know of was in South Africa with the 3 players who were involved in the sandpaper incident it was definately against the laws of cricket and they paid dearly for being so stupid. To make it worse I happened to be living in South Africa at the time so I also copped heaps often being referred to as one of those cheating Australians. You can make as many assumptions as you like about who knew what but the fact is 3 guys were found guilty and were penalised. You also seem to be fairly selective in what you believe is unsportman like behaviour you are beginning to sound a lot like a pom.

BB

rmoor · Senior Member

Belmont Bear, I have often wondered if more than 3 players knew about the sandpaper. That was a pretty weak attempt and I think they should have got life for that. But were there others who knew? Must be a pretty dumb bunch of bowlers if they cannot see that the condition of the ball has changed? Having said that I don't know how early it was detected in that match. Was a pretty disgraceful thing to do. I recall a mate was captain of a side that were playing against a captain who had a lot of Sydney Grade experience. In those matches they just threw the (2 piece) ball in the kit for the second Saturday. The opposing captain used araldite glue on the seam during the week to harden it so the ball seamed around the next week. The ball was behaving so badly it got detected and he was suspended. He was a very good cricketer in his day but that is all I remember him for. I probably recall another dozen or so awful acts on the field and it is for them those players are often remembered. If Warner, Smith, Bancroft, Carey, Bairstow, Broad, McCullum and co have all had varied transgressions then they have to live with it. So do Trevor Chappell and many others. Heat of the moment in some instances I guess, but regardless of that - they have to learn to live with their actions.

Greg 1 · Guru

This so called spirit of the game is a nebulous concept thought up by a bunch of drunken MCC members who dont what to play by the rules when it suits them. The rules are there for a good reason and if you are playing within those rules then you are certainly showing good sportsmanship. Anything else is nebulous BS. The Aussie team played well within the rules as held up by the umpires. End of story. Move on.

DMaxer · Guru

There are several rules of the game that are never or rarely used. Take for instance when a ball is blocked and lands at the feet of the batter. Usually he will tap the ball to a fielder standing close by and the game goes on. An appeal would see the batter out for hitting the ball twice. Likewise how many times has a batter after playing a shot that landed at his feet or lodged in his upper pad retrieved the ball with his hand and thrown it to a close in fielder. An appeal would see him out for handling the ball. No one appeals though. A cranky opposing captain may well tell the batter to leave it alone however.

I looked at what Bairstow did to Labuschagne in throwing the ball at the stumps, It was different as he was batting out of his crease. I used to bat outside the crease because it lessened the chance of lbw and also cut down on a bowler's angle. It gave an advantage and thereby the wicketkeeper or any close in fielder is quite entitled to have a shot at the stumps. What Carey did however was throw before he had even left the crease.

The people in the members that voiced their outrage were not drunken bogans. They are well educated, cricket wise people, the majority having played county and test cricket. That has never happened before and so they must have had good reason to be so outraged.

BB I don't want to get offside with you or anyone else but staunchly defending the indefensible does not resonate with me. I had hoped that this team had woken up to their image problems after the scandal at Newlands but they haven't. I don't believe for one second that only three people knew what was happening there. Smith even referred to the "management group" in his first post match interview. Since when was Bancroft part of any management group. How would two opening batters know what needed to be done to make a ball reverse. I think it is commendable that you have blind faith in their integrity but I don't share your view. The bloke they loving refer to as "Davey" will stay on in this team as long as he wishes. If he is dropped against his wishes he has the potential to empty the bucket on all those who may have been involved seeing an end to their respective careers. They can't do anything more to him, he has served his time.

Watch the Aussies in the field, particularly Smith and try and convince me he is not captaining this team. Nice guy Pat is the front man but it is business as usual, win at all costs, in the background.

I have always loved cricket since primary school. I sat up and listened to tests in England on a bloody crystal set when I was young. I went to test matches when I was over there, watched the way the crowds loved the Aussie cricketers, from Lillee through to Merv and always supported them. Not any more. This is what they will be remembered for.

If calling out bad sportsmanship is sounding like a Pom, well call me what you like. A lot of people who follow cricket must have become Poms in the last few days.

I imagine that all of those who support what happened between Carey and Bairdstow would have had absolutely no issue whatsoever with Bodyline and Leg Theory, where you loaded up the leg side and bowled short at the opposing batter. After all, it was well within the rules at that time and all part of the game, well, wasn't it?

I will leave it at that.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Wednesday 5th of July 2023 07:24:22 AM

Craig1 · Guru

Ground Staff Working Overtime to Clear English Tears in Time for Next Ashes Test
Weve had thirty inches since Sunday

Thanks to The Shovel

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Dmaxer again I will say to you I have no problem with people calling out unsportmen like behaviour but I do have a problem with people labelling the whole Australian mens cricket team as cheats. Most of what you say are assumptions and whether you or I agree with the penalties handed out really doesnt matter we dont run the game. What I would say is that the penalties were far greater than those handed to Mike Athertons English team for ball tampeing i,e, using substances on the ball and roughing it up with a zipper (which was zero) . It seems that their own ball tampering incident has been long forgotten by our hypocritical mates. They also like to brush off unsportsman like behaviour that they have been accused of. The way that they won the 20/20 world cup against New Zealand was with a play that was blatantly unsporting but as it was within the rules so it was perfectly OK with them. I dont agree with your assessment of the MCC membership and their great knowledge of the game although there are definately lots of ex cricketers amongst them there are also plenty of priveleged twits who still think that they own the game. What would have happened if the Australian player involved had belted one of those silly old twits who was in his face there would have been a full blown riot. What happens at Hedingly now that these continued accusations of cheating by the English players, ex players, media commentators and even their PM has has incited the mob. If I was Cricket Australia I would be giving the ECB fair warning that if there is any sign at all that our players personal safety is being put at risk the team will be withdrawn from the rest of the series. Dont equate bowling that was purposely aimed at batsmens heads and bodies in the same boat as a mankaad or a stumpng - nobody i know has ever been killed by a stumping.. The English will tell you that the laws of cricket were changed after the Aussies whinged about their bodyline tactics but what they fail to say is they didnt change the laws until after the Indians did the same
to them.

BB

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Wednesday 5th of July 2023 01:22:16 PM

Basher · Senior Member

DMaxer, I agree in principle to your reasons but think everyone deserves a second chance. Maybe not murders, rapists, pedo's but you know its only a game of cricket and nobody was hurt(except the 3 idiots caught out)
Teams (ALL)have been doctoring the ball since day one of cricket world wide, cheating if thats what you want to call it, and technically it is, what those 3 players did was just plain STUPID, and deserved punishment, I feel what they got was fair considering everything, humiliation etc etc.
I can understand your obvious disappointment in them for tarnishing the entire side but at the end of the day you just have to forgive and move on, maybe not forget, but they, Warner and Smith have done their time and eart their selection back in the team.
As far as the stumping goes, as others have said, Bairstow does it all the time, we will NEVER know what the poms would have done in a similar situation, easy to take the high and mighty moral ground after the event.
I am certain, knowing, feeling the bad blood between both sided the Poms would have done the same thing.
Respect your opinion all the same
Basher
PS: I apologise for any spelling or gramma issues I may have missed, there are so many spelling police on this forum, in particular you, Yobbbbbar and Are you lost, which I hope you find your way soon biggrin

DMaxer · Guru

Seems like a fair bit of histrionics there BB. No one was in any one's face. The players walked unimpeded through the Long Room and up the stairs to their dressing room whilst the members stood where they are entitled to stand and expressed what they thought of their tactics. There was no threat of violence so I imagine any player resorting to belting one of the members would now be in custody, and rightly so.

Obviously in your view no one else had the slightest idea of what was happening at Newlands. Surprisingly, since that occurred in 2018 not one member of that team has spoken and denied involvement or knowledge, not one. Obviously a close knit little group.

As to boycotting any future games because of crowd unrest, there is no chance. CA and I reckon the players are too money centric to let that happen.

The only thing you can be sure of is that if the Poms look like winning or are getting the upper hand, out will come the bag of tricks.

Its pretty sad that Joffra Archer is not available for this series. I don't imagine there would be too much sledging from our blokes if he was there, sharping up the footwork, so to speak.

Anyway, I don't want a great barney with you. I commend you on your total support and love of this team. Unfortunately, I beg to differ.

rmoor · Senior Member

Basher. I quote "As far as the stumping goes, as others have said, Bairstow does it all the time, we will NEVER know what the poms would have done in a similar situation, easy to take the high and mighty moral ground after the event.".
There was a report today of interaction between Head and Bairstow where Head left his crease and rushed back in and then asked Bairstow if he would have taken him (in a similar manner to Carey). Bairstow replied he wouldn't hesitate to get him.
Therein lies the answer.
Bairstow and the poms have no case if this retort is accurate.
This is the argument I have mounted from day one. Bairstow has committed the act (twice) and so has McCullum, the latter in probably a worse manner than Carey.
They have no grounds for dissatisfaction with Carey's actions.
When it happened live, my initial reaction was to laugh. Simply because Bairstow looked so stupid standing there dumbfounded with a childish look on his face. What he did was as dumb as dogp** and at that level, any player that stupid needs a reminder to play the game in a the usual manner and not take any risks at all if he values his wicket and puts a high price on it.
My next reaction was one of oh-ohh here's trouble. The umpire at the bowlers end was fiddling with a jumper and about to call "over" but the ball was live. I don't know what I would have done if playing in a match and that happened? Copped it I guess, as captain it would be an awkward one but I think there is sufficient time for a quick whip around vote and if a majority in favour of waving goodbye to a batsman dopey enough to let it happen, then so be it. This was a test match - in the balance, it really, at the end of the day is an unfortunate occurrence.
Have thought back and I recall perfecting a technique of flicking the ball backwards when at silly mid on or mid off, if the batsman is lazy gaining his ground again after dropping it near his feet, then bad luck. It is also my job as a fieldsman to keep him on his toes. That is supporting your team and your bowler. It is Carey's job to keep the batsman on his toes, it is within the rules of the game and any batsman dumb enough or arrogant enough to take a risk - then bad lack chum.