2700kq tow max and compromise on caravan ... or new tow veichle ?

prinex · Member

2700kq tow max and compromise on caravan ... or new tow veichle ?

yobarr · Guru

prinex wrote:
Hello everyone,
we are about to start the "caravan-age" of our life. Our idea is travel around (3-4 months a year), we are not really interested in crossing deserts, more into visiting "easy" national parks (unpaved roads). We did the usual looking around reading posts etc - and we already are unsure what to do. So advice is needed...
Our actual veichle is a 2009 e70 BMW X5. Is rated at 2700 tow max and 5485 GCM - doing the calculation etc we could tow almost to the limit and still have 300kq payload on the car. But: all the caravans we looked at (we want something at least semi-offroad and that can have a queen and 2 bunks) - Snowy River SRC22F for example - start with 2340kq Tare with the most basic layout. Most of the off-roads ones are on the 2500 kq tare more or less.
That means if we stick to the X5 we will have to compromise a lot on what we can carry in the van - beside being always "on the limit" for weights etc.
So should ditch the x5 and buy a better towing veichle - beside the super expensive Landcruisers we where thinking of a 2018-2020 Grand Cheeroke Overland, looking at the specs in carsales and doing the calculations it should be able to tow 3.2 tons out of his 3.5 max and still be able to carry 350kq payload in the car - and is not a ute, more like a regular SUV ? Or are other caravans with semi-offroad / queen + 2 bunks which have a lower tare and can be towed by the x5 ?
Reasoning is also that ordering a "special" light caravan will be more expensive than upgrading the car and just buy a recent used one or one off the yard (which usually tend to have a lot of extras hence more weight).
What would you do ?

Hi Matteo, and welcome to the forum. It's been a long day for me and I don't have time to give all required info at the moment, but I would like you to know that there is NO WAY you'll ever get anywhere near your GVM or GCM. Without having numbers on me your car's rear axle capacity will be the limiting factor. The Jeep is no better with a miserable 1678kg rear axle capacity.

If you are in no rush I may be able to help you in a few days, but I'm working long days at the moment. Be VERY careful as VERY FEW cars can safely tow anywhere near their claimed tow rating. Tow ratings, and how they are issued, are understood by a only very small minority of caravanners who are not helped by ignorant or untruthful caravan sales staff.

Perhaps you could save me a bit of time by asking BMW for the rear axle carrying capacity of your car. If theyre evasive that is a bad sign. Good luck with your research, but at this stage the BMW seems well out of its depth. Cheers.

prinex · Member

Hi yobarr, thank you - rear axle max load for the x5 should be 1725 kq (from the owner manual).

Which will then turn the question to - what would be the max I can safely tow with the Grand Cherooke or what would be an alternative non-ute veichle (beside the landcruiser which are at 1950kq rear axle load according to offroadexplorer.com.au/4wd-reviews/best-suv-for-towing).

-- Edited by prinex on Tuesday 31st of October 2023 11:30:49 PM

Are We Lost · Guru

Welcome to the forum Prinex. It is good that you are evaluating weights and suitable tow vehicles. Some people get sold something that is simply too heavy for their purposes. I think you will find the compromises you need to make are greater than what you are thinking of.

I agree with all that Yobarr has said.

3200kg is too heavy for nearly all the common tow vehicles, let alone the specified 3500kg tow capacity. It is unachievable in practice and certainly not with safety. With many having a GCM of 6000kg, that would mean only 2800kg for the laden tow vehicle. The tow vehicle should always be heavier than what it is towing. The greater that difference the more it resists sway and other safety issues.

The next most commonly overlooked rating is the tow vehicle rear axle rating. Typically this is very easy to exceed. You may not be aware, but the weight on the towball causes a greater weight to be applied onto the rear axle. This is due to the leverage effect from the weight being well behind the rear axle. So a towball weight of say 300kg would add around 425kg to the rear axle.

Unfortunately this will be the limiting factor for most of the SUVs, as their rear ends are usually designed more for comfort than weight carrying. The Jeep and Landcruiser 200/300 fall into this category. Yobarr said the Jeep has 1678kg capacity and I assume he is correct. Here are some figures to consider.

You said you want a van with queen bed and bunks. Presumably that means a family, so conservatively, that is maybe 200kg with a handful of posessions.

The kerb weight of the Jeep is about 2300kg and GVM 2949kg, so a payload of around 650kg. SUV shapes usually have fairly even weight distribution so allow around 1150kg on the rear axle or 1250kg with 200kg of passengers. If you now add that 425kg due to towball weight, that comes to 1675kg on the rear axle. Already right on the limit and the cargo area is empty.

The Landcruiser 200/300 fares slightly better but only just. Its rear axle capacity is greater, but it is heavier to start with so no real improvemnet. Neither would be acceptable to tow 3200kg.

When looking at van specs, the quoted towball weight is a pretty useless figure. It is supposedly what it weighed when empty van left the factory. Add possessions and it will usually be a lot more.

If you can keep weight down to 3000kg, that is about the maximum that most of the typical tow vehicles can manage. With say 200 litres of water for freecamping it is achievable with a van with Tare of 2500kg. But for being away months at a time, you need to carry a lot in the tow vehicle, and the Jeep and LC cant do that.

Possum3 · Guru

Yobarr and AWL are spot on. Very few SUV's and Utilities can handle the advertised weights Legally or Safely.

Your X5 is a great vehicle but definitely not suited to towing your desired van/s.

There is more chance of finding a pile of snowballs in Hell, than any caravan you decide on meeting the stated "Tare Weight" on the tag. Although caravans are supposed to indicate tare weights with everything fitted as it leaves the Dealer, they rarely if ever do.

Forget the hype about off road/semi off road - vans that are higher off the ground with chunky tires and black checker plate around the bottom are sheep in wolf clothing.

The majority of well manufactured vans built in Australia will do what you want. There are some caravans that are specifically built to successfully handle the rough roads of outback Oz -Trackmaster, Kedron, Evernew, etc. These are all relatively high priced and heavy with very few vehicles capable of towing them, RAM 4500, Patrol Y62, LC 200 series, Ford 250, etc.

If you are going to live in the van for extended periods, it is worth considering the, tougher built heavy vans and tug to suit.

yobarr · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
Yobarr and AWL are spot on. Very few SUV's and Utilities can handle the advertised weights Legally or Safely.

Your X5 is a great vehicle but definitely not suited to towing your desired van/s.

There is more chance of finding a pile of snowballs in Hell, than any caravan you decide on meeting the stated "Tare Weight" on the tag. Although caravans are supposed to indicate tare weights with everything fitted as it leaves the Dealer, they rarely if ever do.

Forget the hype about off road/semi off road - vans that are higher off the ground with chunky tires and black checker plate around the bottom are sheep in wolf clothing.

The majority of well manufactured vans built in Australia will do what you want. There are some caravans that are specifically built to successfully handle the rough roads of outback Oz -Trackmaster, Kedron, Evernew, etc. These are all relatively high priced and heavy with very few vehicles capable of towing them, RAM 4500, Patrol Y62, LC200 series No, No, No, Ford 250, etc.

If you are going to live in the van for extended periods, it is worth considering the, tougher built heavy vans and tug to suit.

Gee Possum, I'm surprised, astounded even, that you would include an LC200 in your suggested list of suitable cars. to tow "heavy" vans. TOP weight to safely tow with an LC200 is around 3000kg ATM. Y62 is way better. Longer wheelbase for starters. More info tonight if I get out of the Roadtrain early enough. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 1st of November 2023 10:03:25 AM

yobarr · Guru

prinex wrote:
Hi yobarr, thank you - rear axle max load for the x5 should be 1725 kq (from the owner manual).

Which will then turn the question to - what would be the max I can safely tow with the Grand Cherooke or what would be an alternative non-ute veichle (beside the landcruiser which are at 1950kq rear axle load according to offroadexplorer.com.au/4wd-reviews/best-suv-for-towing).

Hi Matteo, Sorry about screenshots but I was "bush" and couldn't send original.

How NOT to do it."All legal Mate". Yeah, right.

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 1st of November 2023 02:59:13 PM

-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 1st of November 2023 03:02:21 PM

vince56 · Senior Member

There is an option with the LC200, a Pedders GVM upgrade that apparently allows an extra 200kg of axle weight on the rear. Might be worth considering.

ARB and Old Man Emu have a 195kg rear axle upgrade on offer, unsure of prices.

-- Edited by vince56 on Wednesday 1st of November 2023 04:35:09 PM

yobarr · Guru

vince56 wrote:
There is an option with the LC200, a Pedders GVM upgrade that apparently allows an extra 200kg of axle weight on the rear. Might be worth considering.
ARB and Old Man Emu have a 195kg rear axle upgrade on offer, unsure of prices.

Thanks Vince, for that info. There actually is an option to go higher, but you NEVER will get around the dangers of the pathetically short 2850mm wheelbase.

Neither will you be able to get anywhere near the new claimed GVM because of weight shifted from front axle of car to the rear axle.

But in face of Matteo's apparent aversion to utes it could well be an option for him to consider. Cheers

prinex · Member

Well many thanks for all your answers. Rear axle weight rating was never discussed with the dealer - but he was adamant we should stick to 2200 tare and max 2500 total caravan weight if we want to keep the X5.

Let's see if I got it down:

Doing the math on the X5: kerb weight 2180kq, include 300kq of assorted people in the car and 50% front/load this brings us to 1240 kq per axe (actually the front axle will have more load due to the engine being front but the passengers will be in the back of course).

Rear Axle Weigh Rating is 1725 for the X5, that means 485 kg left. Now subtracting 45% "safety margin" this becomes 330 kg - which should still fit the 10% rule for a 2500/2600 kq fully loaded caravan weight.

So for the X5 its a smaller/lighter caravan and keep the load to a minimum (Im happy with water + beer and 2 T-shirts not sure about my wife..)

OR if we decide we dont want to deal with all this limitations: get a 2400/2500 tare weight caravan, limit ourself to 500 kq payload max, and get a car with basically a high "rear axle payload" (that is fully loaded car minus kerb weight, divided by 2, minus the axle rating). For example Y62 or Discovery D5 (has 1900 rear axle limit I think).

Or just get a Ute for towing (which would be way cheaper than a SUV) and keep the X5 for going to the shops / 2nd car.

Possum3 · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Gee Possum, I'm surprised, astounded even, that you would include an LC200 in your suggested list of suitable cars. to tow "heavy" vans. TOP weight to safely tow with an LC200 is around 3000kg ATM. Y62 is way better. Longer wheelbase for starters. Cheers

Only included it because of his intended Max weight, I left the 79 series off my list as they are a little bit of a tractor, if one is used to driving an X5.

But as we both know the new LC wouldn't cut the mustard.

I thought you were going to give the trains away and become a gentleman of leisure. (like me).

yobarr · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Gee Possum, I'm surprised, astounded even, that you would include an LC200 in your suggested list of suitable cars. to tow "heavy" vans. TOP weight to safely tow with an LC200 is around 3000kg ATM. Y62 is way better. Longer wheelbase for starters. Cheers
Only included it because of his intended Max weight, I left the 79 series off my list as they are a little bit of a tractor, if one is used to driving an X5.
But as we both know the new LC wouldn't cut the mustard.
I thought you were going to give the trains away and become a gentleman of leisure. (like me).

Hi Possum. That was the intention, but after 3 months of declining offers of work I relented. One day, when I was in a WA country town having brekky I was approached by no fewer than 3 different truck owners, each asking "Can you drive a Roadtrain" ?

They're at the point where silly money is being offered, with the last owner offering $65/hr, a near-new Scania triple Roadtrain. However, as I was already on the way to help another desperate owner, on less money too, I had to let it go, on principle.

What goes around comes around.

Certainly I'd never recommend the 79 to anyone who didn't absolutely need to tow a 3500kg van, as it's not everybody's cup of tea, and there's such a backlog that Toyota has now stopped taking orders.

As you say, they're "Bit of a tractor", and not at all suited to city folk who need 'gadgets' and other unnecessary stuff.

But if they wanted a car with chassis, diffs, bearings, clutches, engines, steering and suspension all built for durability they won't do better. Few people really need a 79, but for those who do there's nothing that compares or competes. Cheers

Are We Lost · Guru

prinex wrote:
Well many thanks for all your answers. Rear axle weight rating was never discussed with the dealer - but he was adamant we should stick to 2200 tare and max 2500 total caravan weight if we want to keep the X5.

Let's see if I got it down:

Doing the math on the X5: kerb weight 2180kq, include 300kq of assorted people in the car and 50% front/load this brings us to 1240 kq per axe (actually the front axle will have more load due to the engine being front but the passengers will be in the back of course).

Rear Axle Weigh Rating is 1725 for the X5, that means 485 kg left. Now subtracting 45% "safety margin" this becomes 330 kg - which should still fit the 10% rule for a 2500/2600 kq fully loaded caravan weight.

So for the X5 its a smaller/lighter caravan and keep the load to a minimum (Im happy with water + beer and 2 T-shirts not sure about my wife..)

OR if we decide we dont want to deal with all this limitations: get a 2400/2500 tare weight caravan, limit ourself to 500 kq payload max, and get a car with basically a high "rear axle payload" (that is fully loaded car minus kerb weight, divided by 2, minus the axle rating). For example Y62 or Discovery D5 (has 1900 rear axle limit I think).

Or just get a Ute for towing (which would be way cheaper than a SUV) and keep the X5 for going to the shops / 2nd car.

I think you are on the right path but I have a couple of points.

Usually utes are usually lighter at the rear than the front, but SUVs are generally much closer to 50/50. If you look at the profile of an SUV you will see that the main weight from the front seat passengers is pretty close to midway between the axles (feet on the floor weigh very little). But the back seat passengers are almost on top of the rear axle. Anything in the rear storage is behind the rear axle, so in fact adds more than that weight to the rear axle.

So I would expect at least 200kg of that 300kg passenger weight would be on the rear axle. With a limit of 1725kg it is still doable, but I don't think you have the margin you calculated.

You proposed a 2500/2600kg laden van with 10% ball weight. That 260kg ball weight becomes about 380kg added to the rear axle. Add your 200+kg from passengers and whatever is in the back and you get ... 2180/2 = 1090 + 200 + 380 = 1660kg.

So about 65kg spare. The weight on the wheels will be 2180 + 300 + 260 = 2740kg. A listing I saw said the GVM for the X5 is 2790kg. If so, that is also cutting it very close.

That 10% ball weight is the main concern. Some will disagree with me here, but I am not a stickler for 10% ball weight. But I believe it is a good goal to aim for. If you were not so close to limits of the X5 I would suggest you could relax that a little.

Yobarr said to allow 500kg as rock bottom for all the stuff you carry in the van. I have well under that but with only two people we can go a week or so with about 160 litres of water. That will be the biggest change your family will need to adapt to if you want to freecamp.

I believe you will find a weight distribution hitch is needed. BMW may say something about them in their towing information. Note that Yobarr is one of the few people who is anti WDH. Also with weights so close to limits you need to avoid any extra weight at the back of the van as this brings the greatest risk for swaying.

With all that said, I recommend doing as you propose and buy an older van that can be towed by the X5. After a trip or two and time to experience life on the road you will know what you want and won't lose a lot by selling and upgrading.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Thursday 2nd of November 2023 01:16:26 AM

prinex · Member

Hello Are We Lost and thank you for your answer.

> So about 65kg spare. The weight on the wheels will be 2180 + 300 + 260 = 2740kg. A listing I saw said the GVM for the X5 is 2790kg. If so, that is also cutting it very close.

Which is also my main concern, is just a bit too close to be really confortable (not that the rear axle says goodbye after a road bump...).

> 500kg as rock bottom for all the stuff you carry in the van. I have well under that but with only two people we can go a week or so with about 160 litres of water. That will be the biggest change your family will need to adapt to if you want to freecamp..

We spent 3000+ hours on a boat travelling the canals in Europe - from Germany to Holland - Belgium - France - in a old steel boat which had one cabin and the kids bed was the kitchen table lowered down... travelling light and living in small places is something we are used to, so this is not really my worry.

> I believe you will find a weight distribution hitch is needed

I will look into that, did not even knew something like this existed

> buy an older van that can be towed by the X5

Well as soon as I mentioned "older van" to my wife (she already fell in love with the new shiny queen bed - toilet and separate shower etc vans we looked at) - that could be the biggest issue, find one that fit the 2200 starting weight and look reasonably "new" to get the ok from her. That may be difficult but I will give it a try.

For the "get a new car" solution I found this page www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/best-cars-to-tow-caravan.html - which never mentions axle weight so this needs to be researched but looks like a good starting point.

yobarr · Guru

prinex wrote:
Hello Are We Lost and thank you for your answer.

> So about 65kg spare. The weight on the wheels will be 2180 + 300 + 260 = 2740kg. A listing I saw said the GVM for the X5 is 2790kg. If so, that is also cutting it very close.

Which is also my main concern, is just a bit too close to be really confortable (not that the rear axle says goodbye after a road bump...).

> 500kg as rock bottom for all the stuff you carry in the van. I have well under that but with only two people we can go a week or so with about 160 litres of water. That will be the biggest change your family will need to adapt to if you want to freecamp..

We spent 3000+ hours on a boat travelling the canals in Europe - from Germany to Holland - Belgium - France - in a old steel boat which had one cabin and the kids bed was the kitchen table lowered down... travelling light and living in small places is something we are used to, so this is not really my worry.

> I believe you will find a weight distribution hitch is needed

I will look into that, did not even knew something like this existed

> buy an older van that can be towed by the X5

Well as soon as I mentioned "older van" to my wife (she already fell in love with the new shiny queen bed - toilet and separate shower etc vans we looked at) - that could be the biggest issue, find one that fit the 2200 starting weight and look reasonably "new" to get the ok from her. That may be difficult but I will give it a try.

For the "get a new car" solution I found this page www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/best-cars-to-tow-caravan.html - which never mentions axle weight so this needs to be researched but looks like a good starting point.

Steve's post has lots of helpful information, but there's no way known that you'll be able to stick to the figures provided, no matter how hard you try. For example, does the car have a towbar fitted when sold. Extra weight.

There is NO WAY KNOWN you can ever get to GVM, and the greatly overrated WDH will transfer weight from the car's rear axle to not only the car's front axle, but ALSO to your caravan's axle group. Easy to exceed your axle group rating.

The generally accepted towball weight is 10% of ATM, and since Steve has mentioned it I will add information.

IF you are towing a lighter van, up to about 2000kg ATM you may get away with going a bit lower, BUT when the van is heavier it is more important to run 10% or greater as your towball weight.

If safety is of any concern always the weight on the wheels of the car MUST be at least 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van. Not negotiable. This is simple physics, and is necessary to minimise the chances of the "Tail wagging the Dog".

Weights is a VERY complicated topic, understood by few, but I'm sure your wife would agree that safety is paramount?

You are likely to get all sorts of advice from people selling vans, and indeed cars, but BEWARE, as not only do they have a vested interest in flogging a vehicle to you, but more often than not they're totally ignorant of the facts regarding weights.

And if they DO know, they're certainly not going to jeopardise their income by revealing the truth.

In view of the fact that your wife seems set on a particular van I would strongly suggest that you look at getting a new car.

BUT, that too is fraught with danger so could I respectfully suggest that, before you fall in love with any particular model, you let us know of your preference so that we can present the facts. Cheers

P.S I know the axle weights of most of the cars on your list which is why I suggested that, before you fall in love with any particular model you let us help you. A couple on that list are "no goes" for various reasons.

yobarr · Guru

prinex wrote:
Or just get a ute for towing (which would be way cheaper than a SUV) and keep the X5 for going to the shops / 2nd car.

Now that would be an easy solution to your problems! DMax, Ranger, Colorado, BT50, VW Amarok, Triton (at a pinch) are all suitable for your needs, so plenty of options.

There are a couple of other twin cabs that I have not mentioned because, although they look good on paper, they will not do what you want.

AND you could keep your BMW, a lovely car. Cheers

P.S SOME Lancruiser Prados, around 2019 I believe, had 5990kg GCMs and might suit. Check on compliance plate for the GCM as most were only 5490kg, so not suitable.

Rear axle is 1800kg but Pedders offer upgrade to 2050kg.

-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 2nd of November 2023 09:40:16 PM

BarneyBDB · Senior Member

I ended up with one of these after trying others, wife is now happy. caravan.hemax.com/Reviews/2788/Jurgens_Lunagazer_J2403_2016_Review Have covered most of the country using a 2020 MUX with a mild towing re map, extremely happy except for the original 3 way fridge.

BAZZA44 · Senior Member

If it was me I would keep the x5 and look for a low mileage 100 series Landcruiser 2005 to 2007 turbo diesel for towing. It is a comfortable wagon, less outlay than a new ute type and better tow vehicle. That is unless you want new.

Barry

yobarr · Guru

BAZZA44 wrote:
If it was me I would keep the x5 and look for a low mileage 100 series Landcruiser 2005 to 2007 turbo diesel for towing. It is a comfortable wagon, less outlay than a new ute type and better tow vehicle. That is unless you want new.

Barry

And almost unbreakable. Waaay better value than an LC200.

If my memory serves me correctly there was a choice of 4.7 litre petrol, or the venerable 4.2 litre Diesel 1HZ, the best motor ever supplied in a car by Toyota. At 500,000km they're barely run in. Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 3rd of November 2023 03:23:39 PM

Hitting the road · Senior Member

Here is my real life weights prior to heading off on the lap in May. Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. (I bought a poverty pack Laredo as I don't need all the extras that come with the Limited and Overland that just add extra weight.)

Van is a 2018 tandem axle pop top Jayco Journey DX Outback....plated tare weight 2080kg which is irrelevant really.

Individual weights loaded ready to go with full fuel, fridge in car, tools etc, van on, me in at 90kg, but with out 70kg better half in car;
Jeep; Right Rear; 834kg, Left Rear 800kg = 1634kg. Rear axle capacity 1678kg (with better half 50/50 would be maybe 1669kg)
Jeep; Right Front; 683kg, Left Front 496kg = 1179kg. Capacity 1452kg. (add better half likely weight 1214kg)

(Jeep has bull bar, spotlights, roof rack, awning, winch, tow bar of course, adding to base weight)

This doesn't include additional grog and food in fridge...add 25kg.

Van weights; (full water tanks and gas bottle, with 28kg gen set in front boot)

Left front:; 661kg, Left rear; 637kg, Right front 669kg, Right rear 647kg. Manufacturers ATM 2655kg, Actual ATM 2884 kg...230kg over weight.

I partially remedied this by changing the jockey wheel to a lighter unit saving 10kg, also replaced batteries with Lithium saving another 40kg. saved another 16kg by transporting folding chairs in Jeep instead of van. (Jeep had some capacity, but is on limit so adding additional food, grog will see it over by 20kg - 30kg)

So...in fact to be around legal I reckon I would need to leave both water tanks empty in the van while traveling. (2 x 80 litre tanks = 160kg) Once the Jeep has burnt around 20 litres of fuel it would be legal too...

I could lose the 28kg gen set and that would free up some rear axle weight on the Jeep as well as some van weight...I need to re visit the weights anyway...

Steel Dog · Veteran Member

Hi pinex,

I tow my 2018 Jayco Journey 21.66-3 with my 2012 BMW X5 E70, I have had the X5 from new and didn't want to change it as after many years of travelling and holidays with previous caravans and recently Motorhomes 2024 will be my last year.

I bought the Jayco in January 2023 after selling our Motorhome and Toad (downsizing) then fitted the X5 with the REDARC electric brakes, cables for the rear view camera at a cost of around $5000 and bought a HR WDH (600lb) for about $600, you will need this if you keep the X5 due to it's soft rear suspension.

My combination is right on the limit, I keep the water tanks empty, minimal food and camping stuff and also with this caravan we just travel from Melbourne to the Gold Coast and stay for around 4 to 6 months in caravan parks, so it suits us, the combination handles very well, Jayco has ESC and we load it correctly.

HOWEVER, if I was starting out again and had years of caravanning ahead of me, I would first find the caravan that suited me best (we are on our 7th Caravan/Motorhome) and then buy the Tow Vehicle to match, for me it would be either a LC, Ford Everest or ISUZU MUX, if the weight calculations of the caravan combination suited these vehicles.

Also if you end up going bush and the X5 breaks down the parts are harder to get.

Even though I find my X5 beautiful to drive and tow on the 'black top' it's not the ideal vehicle for towing on any dirt roads or off-road, or even the whole caravanning/camping experience, also getting into some difficult camp sites over kerbs and rough ground you will need more ground clearance than the X5 has.

The longer you travel you will want to go to more remote or outback places and the X5 will limit you.

Please take in all the excellent information the others have provided above and I'm sure you work out what's best for you.

Happy hunting and later travels.

BAZZA44 · Senior Member

Yobarr the 2005 to 2007 Cruiser has the 1HDFTE engine. That is the best one ever built in my opinion. Mine has got 198000 klms on it. Bought in 2005 as a demo model. Still as new.

Barry

prinex · Member

Hi all, more and more informations - thank you.

> caravan.hemax.com/Reviews/2788/Jurgens_Lunagazer_J2403_2016_Review

I like the Jurgens and said to myself finally someone making light caravans just to find out they went out of business... they also made the Solaris which looks really good maybe some used ones are still around.

So the actual decision is trying to find a first used caravan which will still be able to towed by the X5 with all the compromises (light load, water tanks half empty, bit smaller , road only or semi-offroad etc) and get a few trips in easy accessible national parks with some caravan parks stay mixed in to get the hang of all of this, see what we really want (eg. generator versus large battery pack and inverter) and so on.

We did some trips with rented road caravans before and our ancient Land Rover Discovery 1 so we have some experience with driving on unpaved roads etc. Most of the places we went (Vic up to Murray River and to Sydney then down to Eden, South Australia to Broken Hill etc) where accessible even with normal cars.

We will consider this "learning money" and be prepared to take some loss when we resell it / trade in after the "learning period". The advantage would be - we have the car already and we know is not the "final" caravan.

And then we should know what is for us really important and get caravan + tow combo right.

Many thanks to all again and if someone has a suggestion for a light caravan with queen + bunks - very welcome.

yobarr · Guru

BAZZA44 wrote:
Yobarr the 2005 to 2007 Cruiser has the 1HDFTE engine. That is the best one ever built in my opinion. Mine has got 198000 klms on it. Bought in 2005 as a demo model. Still as new.

Barry

Thanks Bazz,. I believe that they're essentially the same engine, with the 1HDFTE being 4 valve?

The 1HZ engine still is worth $5000 as long as it runs! Cheers

Eaglemax · Guru

I own a small Jurgens Sungazer, they are very well built but none to my knowledge have bunks. Tony

prinex · Member

They also made the Solaris which had bunks and a somewhat acceptable weight.