I was reading this thread https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/17ur5by/dont_know_where_else_to_post_so_here_i_go_this_is/ on reddit and the impression I have is that there seems a lot of "lemon" builders around.
Is that really like this ? Or is this a very biased view ?
In the yachting world (largish motor boats, 15/18mt) we say buy 3-4 year used rather than new, as the owner will have the done the fight with the builder already, maybe this rule is also valid for caravans ?
Definitely do your homework before buying any caravan - It is a self-regulated industry with even some large company's having a business with less than $100 paid up capital. (Lessens the ability to sue for damages and get money back).
Lemon caravans web page is littered with dissatisfied customers (both old and new vans).
ACCC has indicated they are going to get tough on the rogues in the industry, but to date they at best get a verbal assurance from builder and dealers to be good in the future. Slapped with wet lettuce leaf would be more effective.
There is a buyer beware list of caravans on the Lemon Caravan and RV's Facebook site, download it and be aware what is really the state of the RV industry.
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Possum; AKA:- Ali El-Aziz Mohamed Gundawiathan
Sent from my imperial66 typewriter using carrier pigeon, message sticks and smoke signals.
My experience substantiates your suggestion that the caravan industry is no different to the yachting world. I bought a new lemon and concluded that it would be best to buy used as the hard yards (perhaps) had been done by previous owner/s. Then I met a family who had bought pretty much the same 'van as I, but 2nd hand having had one owner who completed a lap. Dear me. Dangerously unroadworthy, anything that failed during that lap had been discarded without necessarily having been rectified. It was a private sale so the industry cannot be implicated in that respect, but as Possum has said- Caveat Emptor. When there is no punishment or dissuader for poor and unconscionable behaviour, there can be no "incentives" to do better. Wet lettuce leaf indeed.
I have been very fortunate in that the off-road caravan we bought new had a few early failures, but the manufacturer supported us under warranty by replacing failed items with no questions asked. However, the van has revealed to us the shortcomings in the materials used and the assembly methods.For example:
The entry door does not reliably lock or exclude dust. The original assembly was never fitted properly and while this was overcome initially by adjustment, corrugated roads would soon render that irrelevant and the door would swing open while travelling and admit clouds of dust. Corrugated roads caused self-tapping screws to pull out and allow the inverter to dislodge from the plywood panel it was attached to. The cafe seating similarly came adrift from the floor due to screws pulling out. The battery boxes cracked, The battery restraining clamp bent - allowing the batteries to self-destruct. The microwave oven destroyed itself because it was not securely fixed in place and rattled in its mounting. The radio (permanent) connections fell off the back of the built-in unit. The gas/electric stove and griller cracked and rattled to pieces.The plastic openable air vents in the bathroom and shower areas degraded (by UV) so badly after 4 years that they had to be replaced. Cupboard door catches breaking too often.
This may all sound like a horror story, but all these issues have been fixed either by the original dealer or by myself (I like a challenge). The critical aspects of the van have so far never let us down. We have thoroughly enjoyed our trips away to some of the more remote areas of Australia. Some of the failures caused inconvenience, but they never caused any hardship nor have they dampened our enthusiasm for travelling and discovering the wonders that abound in this country.
One of the troubles in the industry is that people read the glossy brochures without doing due diligence. Also what some people think is an "Off Road" or "Semi Off Road" road others think as just a dirt road. Hence I can to some extent sympathise with StewG. But Looking at his Avtar that van is definately not an off road van nor was it off road ready having read his problems. I also bought and "off road van" only to discover many parts were held together with Tek screws. I have gradually made mine almost bullet proof for rough outback roads where I can safely travel at 80kph and open the van at the end with everything still in its place and no dust. Sure I only paid 1/2 the price of a Kedron or Bushmaster for my van. But my view is you get what you pay for. Vans are often built to a price point. And not asking the correct questions before purchase and explaining in detail what your expectations are and the roads to be travelled, one is at the mercy of the saleperson and/or the manufacturer. You dont buy mazda 3 (or any passenger car for that matter) to tow a 24ft van, so why buy a caravan that will not stand up to the conditions you are going to place it in?
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16.5 Discovery 4 with a few mods and New Age MR 16' Deluxe
Walter, Whilst I tend to agree with you on most of the above, I advise that in most cases the term "off road" is merely a marketing term.
In fact, truly off road means total absence of gazetted roads - desert tracks etc. There are "No" commercial caravan brands built to withstand constant off road travel (in Australia). Explorex do manufacture caravans to order for this specific use, particularly in the Kimberly Regions.
Kedron, Trackmaster, Evernew, Bushmaster, Explorex - Build rugged caravans suited to driving on dirt/gravel corrugated roads - These caravans are heavy and relatively expensive (all well north of $100K). They tend to utilise leaf sprung (Rocker) suspension for stability, reliability and ease of repair. They do not neccessarily have massive clearance that requires a step ladder to enter, they often have cut-away tail to prevent drag, (some have skids at rear) for sharp inclined exit of gullies.
All of the show pony, black checkerplated, high lift, knobby tired, bouncy independent suspensioned plastic boxes are best left to the would be, if could be - they are built to aesthetic appeal (to mainly ladies) - They are easy to sell by slick salespeople with little or no experience or engineering knowledge. They are as bullet-proof as a cabbage leaf.
Whilst I cannot determine the van in StewG's avatar - I would be reluctant to state "it is definitely not an off road van" I do however note, that there is a window in the front panel which is unsuitable for gravel roads.
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Possum; AKA:- Ali El-Aziz Mohamed Gundawiathan
Sent from my imperial66 typewriter using carrier pigeon, message sticks and smoke signals.
I agree with most of the points made by HandyWalter and Possum3. The van I described (shown in the avatar) was certainly advertised as an off-road van, does have some very creditable features, such as DO35 hitch, high clearance and very rugged chassis. I believe we got good value for money for the usage that we wish to indulge in. I have no desire to take the caravan into extreme off-road conditions. I want the "home comforts" with the occasional dirt/corrugated road excursion which we have done and I hope will continue to do. If we wanted to display more testosterone, a bushmaster or similar might have been on the shopping list. As an aside, the window in the front of the van (which we have rarely used) is covered by the stone-guard that you see in the avatar.
The real point to make is that one must do the research, buy the best, affordable RV that suits the projected use and overcome any shortcomings by whatever means one can do. Examples with my van is to replace problem self-tappers with bolts and Niloc nuts, use slide-bolts to stop hinged items (table, benchtop) from flapping about and use styrene foam filled bags and inflated bladders to fill spaces in fridge, cupboards and drawers. This all helps to stop things rattling and minimises damage. And regular maintenance stops potential problems from occurring.
In fact, truly off road means total absence of gazetted roads - desert tracks etc. There are "No" commercial caravan brands built to withstand constant off road travel (in Australia). Explorex do manufacture caravans to order for this specific use, particularly in the Kimberly Regions.
Whilst I dont want to get into a sling match about road definitions, All 4wd drive roads/tracks marked on government department issued maps (ie high country in vic) are all gazetted roads. Its just that many are suitable for 4wd's only. And no one expects that a vehicle towing a caravan should/could or would attempt them. (but yes I have seen people that have). In my mind and what I would expect an off road van to accomplish without any damage is any road that a normal car could drive. For example the Gibb River rd, Tanami Road, Cape York Development Road, Oodnadatta Track, Old Coach Road SA, and roads along those lines. Not the "mountain goat" type tracks we call 4WD off road. And to do these roads at a reasonable speed without internal and external damage. As I said my MR Deluxe has been modded by me to be able to do these types of roads, driving to the conditions and not be holding up a long line of cars behind me. When I bought it, it had the "bare bones" of an off road van, and my mods like what StewG has done have now made it able to stand up to the riggors of corrugated roads at reasonable speeds and not fall apart!
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16.5 Discovery 4 with a few mods and New Age MR 16' Deluxe
