check out the new remote control Jockey Wheel SmartBar
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Followup to "2700kq tow max and compromise on caravan .. or new tow veichle"


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 9
Date:
Followup to "2700kq tow max and compromise on caravan .. or new tow veichle"


Hi all, after much back and forth - van needed to fit the tow veichle, a bmw x5 se that has a max of 2700kq , or buy a new tow veichle -  we finally made a move and decided to go for a Bailey Rangefinder caravan. 

With a "starting" tare of 1950 kq and 130 kq ball weight, it was the lightest we could find where all the family agreed - queen bed, bunks and separate toilet / shower. The one we found has a electronic sway control so it should also help a bit on this adventure. 

It does not have everything we wanted (is not offroad but still has a decent clearance, no solar panel so I need to get movable ones) but I dont consider it a "compromise van", for what we want to do (travel around and occasionally visit "easy" national park campsites) it may as well be a very good choice.

And without your help I would have probably made a huge mistake and bought a way too heavy van for my SUV and be now also faced with a new tow veichle $$$. Specially the discussion about payload and axle max weight convinced me to go as light as possible. 

Thank you again and wave hello when you see a Bailey towed by a BMW X5 around ....

 

 

 



__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1020
Date:
Followup to


Well done and thanks for coming back to let everyone know.

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 5420
Date:
Followup to "2700kq tow max and compromise on caravan .. or new tow veichle"


prinex wrote:

Hi all, after much back and forth - van needed to fit the tow veichle, a bmw x5 se that has a max of 2700kq , or buy a new tow veichle -  we finally made a move and decided to go for a Bailey Rangefinder caravan. 

With a "starting" tare of 1950 kq and 130 kq ball weight, it was the lightest we could find where all the family agreed - queen bed, bunks and separate toilet / shower. The one we found has a electronic sway control so it should also help a bit on this adventure. 

It does not have everything we wanted (is not offroad but still has a decent clearance, no solar panel so I need to get movable ones) but I dont consider it a "compromise van", for what we want to do (travel around and occasionally visit "easy" national park campsites) it may as well be a very good choice.

And without your help I would have probably made a huge mistake and bought a way too heavy van for my SUV and be now also faced with a new tow veichle $$$. Specially the discussion about payload and axle max weight convinced me to go as light as possible. 

Thank you again and wave hello when you see a Bailey towed by a BMW X5 around ... 


 Hi Matteo. Glad to see that we were able to help you as many 'newbies' come to our forum seeking advice, then promptly disappear, never to be heard from again, when our advice doesn't match their preconceived ideas which have been instilled by 'advice' from well-intentioned friends, or by salesmen with a vested interest in flogging anything to anyone. 
I'd like to wish you and your family many  'Happy travels' with your new purchase. Cheers



-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 29th of November 2023 04:50:38 AM

__________________

v



Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1469
Date:

prinex wrote:

Hi all, after much back and forth - van needed to fit the tow veichle, a bmw x5 se that has a max of 2700kq , or buy a new tow veichle -  we finally made a move and decided to go for a Bailey Rangefinder caravan. 

With a "starting" tare of 1950 kq and 130 kq ball weight, it was the lightest we could find where all the family agreed - queen bed, bunks and separate toilet / shower. The one we found has a electronic sway control so it should also help a bit on this adventure. 

It does not have everything we wanted (is not offroad but still has a decent clearance, no solar panel so I need to get movable ones) but I dont consider it a "compromise van", for what we want to do (travel around and occasionally visit "easy" national park campsites) it may as well be a very good choice.

And without your help I would have probably made a huge mistake and bought a way too heavy van for my SUV and be now also faced with a new tow veichle $$$. Specially the discussion about payload and axle max weight convinced me to go as light as possible. 

Thank you again and wave hello when you see a Bailey towed by a BMW X5 around ....

 

 Lots of common sense fixing a problem.

Tony

 


 



__________________

Be nice... if I wanted my school teacher here I would have invited him... 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 16
Date:

Eaglemax wrote:
prinex wrote:

It does not have everything we wanted (is not offroad but still has a decent clearance, no solar panel so I need to get movable ones)

 


 


 You can still put fixed solar panels on the roof and be done with it.



__________________


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 19
Date:
Followup to


Too many people look at plates on cars and say. Good. I can tow 3 ton/3.5 ton Whatever/ When realistically their max SAFE weight is around 2/2.5ton.
Especially with Wagons and utes. They have longer chassis. and are light on in the rear. You need weight in rear.

IF you towing anywhere near your limits Just make sure you have a DECENT load over rear wheels to stop Trailer pushing you sideways when a nasty happens. I'm an ex (old) trucky/Multi driver and have seen too many rolled and injured.
It's the REAR traction/lack of grip of your vehicle and the weights on front of vans that cause most of the damage.
Myself. Nowadays an Isuzu dual cab. My max load I will tow is 2.5 ton. as long as a load in tray.
and am towing a lightweight Tandem 2 ton Coromal. I shudder when I see these modern utes jacked up. Bullbars/lights etc. Dragging round huge tandem 6 and plus metre Off road vans. They waay overloaded if they stopped and the scales put under each wheel.
My GU Patrol with Roadstar 6.4mtr off roader. I could carry what I wanted WITH EMPTY WATER TANKS. We filled them at last servo or in van park, 3.75Tinny on roof 15hp in back. We were over.
Do yourselves a favour.
Take your rig over Council tip Scales as you leave home and check each axle. Ours does if you ask nicely. Most of you will be surprised.
Every vehicle on the road has a Gross (itself) max load rating. BUT it's not all up. It's per wheel/axle. combining to give you the max allowable. Even overloading one axle/side and under max weight, can get you a ticket. Which is why we (on heavy trucks) were so careful with weighing (and 3 drag Rigs, unless it's changed was 103ton on wheels).

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 5420
Date:
RE: Followup to "2700kq tow max and compromise on caravan .. or new tow veichle"


Macka1706 wrote:

Too many people look at plates on cars and say. Good. I can tow 3 ton/3.5 ton Whatever/ When realistically their max SAFE weight is around 2/2.5ton.
Especially with Wagons and utes. They have longer chassis. and are light on in the rear. You need weight in rear.

IF you towing anywhere near your limits Just make sure you have a DECENT load over rear wheels to stop Trailer pushing you sideways when a nasty happens. I'm an ex (old) trucky/Multi driver and have seen too many rolled and injured.
It's the REAR traction/lack of grip of your vehicle and the weights on front of vans that cause most of the damage.
Myself. Nowadays an Isuzu dual cab. My max load I will tow is 2.5 ton. as long as a load in tray.
and am towing a lightweight Tandem 2 ton Coromal. I shudder when I see these modern utes jacked up. Bullbars/lights etc. Dragging round huge tandem 6 and plus metre Off road vans. They waay overloaded if they stopped and the scales put under each wheel.
My GU Patrol with Roadstar 6.4mtr off roader. I could carry what I wanted WITH EMPTY WATER TANKS. We filled them at last servo or in van park, 3.75Tinny on roof 15hp in back. We were over.
Do yourselves a favour.
Take your rig over Council tip Scales as you leave home and check each axle. Ours does if you ask nicely. Most of you will be surprised.
Every vehicle on the road has a Gross (itself) max load rating. BUT it's not all up. It's per wheel/axle. combining to give you the max allowable. Even overloading one axle/side and under max weight, can get you a ticket. Which is why we (on heavy trucks) were so careful with weighing (and 3 drag Rigs, unless it's changed was 103ton on wheels).


 Good post Malcolm, with much useful information. As always, the limiting factor with these so-called "3.5 ton tow capacity" cars is the low rear-axle carrying capacity, but slowly members are starting to understand. However, always there are those who do not, cannot, or will not understand facts.

Safely towing 3500kg with the popular twin-cab utes, or an LC200, or a Ram 1500 is LaLa Land stuff, but still we hear stories about "Done a million ks Mate all over 'Straylya Mate, Just gotta drive to the conditions Mate".

Such an "achievement" is more a result of good luck than it is of good management.

What regularly seems to occur though, is that someone will ask a question about weights when already they suspect that they're overloaded, unsafe and uninsured, but when the reply doesn't give them the reassurance that they so desperately seek, they take their bat and ball and go away. Sad but true. Cheers.

P.S And the "Upgraded GVM" rubbish that is commonly thrown into the conversation is virtually useless in a tow vehicle.

Great for a touring vehicle, but not for towing.



__________________

v



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 19
Date:

Above, UPgraded. Hmm.
How many utes and a coupla cars have you seen with bent/Cracked chassis rails hey?. The GVM is rated by the veh MFG. By the acceptable strength of the individual model CHASSIS. not suspension. Yep. this'll stir a few up. But check up on it.
Early Tojos were bad for it. and some Mitzi's. Saw one Navara once yrs ago too. Trying to pull a 4+ ton boat out of the water up a steep ramp.
I had to tow them both out. But one at a time in case we split the Nissan in half. Chuckle. (Kenny tri axle, Drags being load transferred for backloading, me daydreaming over a nosh while perusing the Ocean).



-- Edited by Macka1706 on Sunday 10th of December 2023 07:10:34 PM

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1020
Date:

Macka1706 wrote:

IF you towing anywhere near your limits Just make sure you have a DECENT load over rear wheels to stop Trailer pushing you sideways when a nasty happens.


I agree that some vehicles such as utes are a bit light on the rear end. But towing a heavy van is rarely a problem getting enough load on the rear wheels. Maybe if you are hopping from caravan park to caravan park without much gear in the rear of the ute.

In my case, a canopy adds 100kg, towball load of 320-340kg (about 11%) adds 450kg or more. Already that is a decent load and then some before I start putting in the multitude of things needed for longer term travel, particularly if freecamping.

Most enquiries on here (90%?) from those who are concerned about weights, it is the rear axle load that is their primary constraining issue. About the only time not enough weight is on the rear end is with a lightweight van, or a badly balanced one.

 



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Sunday 10th of December 2023 07:09:29 PM

__________________


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 19
Date:
Followup to


Heyyy. I did say Utes and Wagons. LONGer chassis vehicles. They end up with most load on and aft of rear axle. You need to lay seats down and get some of load in front of the axle onto front susp,.
I ended up balancing my Patrol on both axles at 3.1 ton. incl 350kg Drawbar. and Roadstar at 3.2 ton. Giving me just a leetle leeway. But a cup of coffee would probably have tipped it over. And for stopping I had fitted Hyd Disc brakes to van. along with cable to operate them for parking. My Trailer brake lever above knee would pull the rig up neatly and abruptly by itself. Skid the trlr wheels if too handy with it. Without touching the brake pedal.
All bigger vans should have the trlr brakes set up so they will pull up the rig by itself. Changing them to Disc if necessary. Any decent Brake tech will set them up for you. It's also good for any sway if it develops too.
Just a light touch brings the van back into line. (usually). In any case it's good to have trlr brakes set to come on slightly b4 the veh brakes take effect

__________________


Guru

Status: Offline
Posts: 1020
Date:
Followup to "2700kq tow max and compromise on caravan .. or new tow veichle"


Towball overhang definitely bad. Long wheelbase definitely good (I assume when you refer to chassis you are thinking principally of wheelbase).

Most utes are long wheelbase, while most wagons are shorter. In my Ranger, the towball overhang is reasonably good. The longish wheelbase helps to counteract towball overhang so, overall it is a good combination. It also means the rear axle is positioned well aft of the rear seats, unlike the typical wagon. It is much better for packing heavy items. But as you said earlier, the load on the rear axle should be greater than the front. A reasonable compromise is needed. The Ranger specs show 370kg greater rear axle capacity than the front. It was designed for load in the back.

As for caravan brakes, most brake controllers allow the van braking effort to be adjusted according to conditions, and activated manually if needed (e.g. if sway starts as you noted). I believe the best setting for normal travel is to adjust the sensitivity so the van brakes have less braking effort than the tow vehicle. You definitely do not want the van brakes locking up. The tow vehicle (apart from old ones) will have ABS so should brake more effectively. Descending a long steep hill is about the only time I would want the caravan brakes to have more braking effort than the tow vehicle. That way, if fade develops the best brakes have been kept in reserve.

Macka1706 wrote:

Nowadays an Isuzu dual cab. My max load I will tow is 2.5 ton.


That sounds like a very easy tow for the Isuzu. I wish more people took such a conservative approach.

We seem to have digressed from the original thread purpose so I will leave it there.





-- Edited by Are We Lost on Sunday 10th of December 2023 11:28:49 PM

__________________
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us
Purchase Grey Nomad bumper stickers Read our daily column, the Nomad News The Grey Nomad's Guidebook