Tow vehicle suitability

Us 3 · Newbie

Tow vehicle suitability

BarneyBDB · Senior Member

What is your intended usage of the van? Occasional trips to beach side van parks or some serious long distance trips?

Welcome to the site and good to see you are seeking advice before totally committing. If you get your set up right vanning

can be great fun and comfortable travelling.

yobarr · Guru

Us 3 wrote:
Hi everyone. We are new to caravanning and just bought a Jayco Journey, 19.5ft.
We are looking at changing our tow unit, as our current 2018 Prado 150 has only a 3 ton tow capacity, and it is overloaded with a bulbar, winch etc, so the payload is minimal.
Looking at a '23 Everest Trend 2ltr bi-turbo. They state it has a 3.5 ton capacity, and more than enough payload. Our van has a tare of 2200kg, so I am comfortably under tow weight either way.
Is anyone using a 2 ltr Everest?
And, if so, what are your thoughts/experiences?
Keep safe.

Hi Chris, and welcome to the forum. As Barney has said, you are to be commended for asking questions before purchase, rather than moaning after you've parted with your hard-earned.

The Everest seems to be a good car, but don't even think of trying to tow a van with ATM above about 3100kg. MAX.

Limiting factors are short wheelbase and an even lighter rear axle than your Prado has.

Never mind though, as with a 2200kg tare van you're likely to be around 2600-2700kg ready to go, so all is good.

Beware though, as car's rear axle carrying capacity is a low 1750kg, from memory.

Generally accepted safe towball weight is 10% of van's weight, so maybe 260kg (Guess?) which will put around 380kg onto the car's rear axle, with the extra 120kg being taken off car's front axle. Think "levers".

What is your van's ATM, which can be found on the compliance plate, often in the front boot of the van?

Also, can you find the axle group rating and GTM which should be on the compliance plate.

Happy to do all figures for you if I get time at the weekend, but need van ATM and your expected van weight when ready to travel.

Cheers

P.S There is another member who has learned much about weights in the last couple of years, and I'm sure that he will be able to help you.

watsea · Guru

Yobarr and Barney have mentioned a few things to consider when selecting a suitable tow. Rear axle load rating is important.
Other things that spring to my mind are size of the fuel tank. You would know a Prado has a larger tank than most of its competitors. Sure you can get an aftermarket long range tank but that cuts into allowable payload which is measured from a vehicles kerb weight and that means full of all fuel and liquids.
Care with extra weight by adding stuff to the vehicle. You know about a winch eating payload. How often have you used it? Would a boring hand operated puller work for the occasional outing?
Do you need a heavy bullbar? Would a lighter Smartbar be ok? Do you need a bullbar at all?
Do you need the extra vehicle fridge if there is fridge in the van?
Do you need the third row of seats if you are getting a wagon type vehicle? My third row is temporarily in a box in the garage.

Are We Lost · Guru

The Everest is a fairly good choice provided you don't want to carry too much or tow too much. The specs of 3500kg are unachievable in practice and as you will see from beliow, even the 3100kg mentioned by Yobarr is too much.

The following is assuming you are talking about the Everest 4WD version. The main specs of interest are in the following image .... 2WD and 4WD Trend 2.0L being the 3rd and 4th columns.

The current brochure does not list axle ratings, however they are listed for the 2020 model. The current model is 4kg less kerb weight and has 4kg more payload, so presumably they are rated the same ... front axle 1480kg, rear 1750kg (only 1650kg for the 2WD). Compared to the much (overly) revered Land Cruiser 200, the 2.0L Everest has longer wheelbase, more rear axle load and more payload.

However that rear axle limit could easily be reached and the figures fall short of the typical ute's capabilities. That is the main limiting factor. You did not state the van ATM which is much more important than Tare. The Jayco Journeys usually have a decent payload as needed for being off the grid. I will take a guess and say 2700kg. On that basis, and assuming water tanks are well distributed, the towball load should be around 270kg when laden.

For the Everest, starting with kerb weight of 2383kg with full fuel tank, add 2 people (say 160kg), 270kg towball load, it now weighs 2813kg. Almost 300kg available within the payload of 3100kg. If you want to add bullbar, winch etc to this, plus a lot of kit in the back, that will soon be eaten up. So it is not a vehicle for carrying a lot.

Looking at the rear axle load, the SUV shapes are usually split fairly evenly in loading front to back when at kerb weight. So, assume 1200kg for the rear axle. The 270kg towball load adds close to 400kg to the rear axle (say 460kg with 2 passengers). Now it is getting close to that 1750kg limit (or exceeded it for the 2WD). You would have to be pretty careful what you put in there wih only 90kg allowance. And for safety it would not be good to carry things in the van instead. It should be as light as possible. If that 270kg towball load is overstated then that would help. But 10% of laden weight is a good guideline.

But your profile name is "Us 3". That suggests a 3rd passenger, and that weight in the back seat will eat up most of your allowance in the rear before you put anything in. Not a good way to travel.

If you do want bullbar and winch on the front, they will take a small load off the rear axle, but being so close to the front, not a lot. The Everest has fairly soft suspension and if you do want to carry stuff in the back I would recommend a WDH.

So, before progressing any further I suggest you load the van to capacity .. the heaviest you ever intend to travel and take it to a weighbridge. You need separate weights for the towball and wheels. It would be nice to empty it out so you know how accurate the Tare is, but that may be more hassle than you want and not really necessary.

It would also be good to weigh the front and rear on a similar Everest if you can so you know the starting point. Also when looking at vehicles, have you considered you may want a bigger van down the track?

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 20th of January 2024 01:11:10 AM

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
The Everest is a fairly good choice provided you don't want to carry too much or tow too much. The specs of 3500kg are unachievable in practice and as you will see from beliow, even the 3100kg mentioned by Yobarr is too much.
The following is assuming you are talking about the Everest 4WD version. The main specs of interest are in the following image .... 2WD and 4WD Trend 2.0L being the 3rd and 4th columns.

The current brochure does not list axle ratings, however they are listed for the 2020 model. The current model is 4kg less kerb weight and has 4kg more payload, so presumably they are rated the same ... front axle 1480kg, rear 1750kg (only 1650kg for the 2WD). Compared to the much (overly) revered Land Cruiser 200, the 2.0L Everest has longer wheelbase, more rear axle load and more payload.
However that rear axle limit could easily be reached and the figures fall short of the typical ute's capabilities. That is the main limiting factor. You did not state the van ATM which is much more important than Tare. The Jayco Journeys usually have a decent payload as needed for being off the grid. I will take a guess and say 2700kg. On that basis, and assuming water tanks are well distributed, the towball load should be around 270kg when laden.
For the Everest, starting with kerb weight of 2383kg with full fuel tank, add 2 people (say 160kg), 270kg towball load, it now weighs 2813kg. Almost 300kg available within the payload of 3100kg. If you want to add bullbar, winch etc to this, plus a lot of kit in the back, that will soon be eaten up. So it is not a vehicle for carrying a lot.
Looking at the rear axle load, the SUV shapes are usually split fairly evenly in loading front to back when at kerb weight. So, assume 1200kg for the rear axle. The 270kg towball load adds close to 400kg to the rear axle (say 460kg with 2 passengers). Now it is getting close to that 1750kg limit (or exceeded it for the 2WD). You would have to be pretty careful what you put in there wih only 90kg allowance. And for safety it would not be good to carry things in the van instead. It should be as light as possible. If that 270kg towball load is overstated then that would help. But 10% of laden weight is a good guideline.
But your profile name is "Us 3". That suggests a 3rd passenger, and that weight in the back seat will eat up most of your allowance in the rear before you put anything in. Not a good way to travel.
If you do want bullbar and winch on the front, they will take a small load off the rear axle, but being so close to the front, not a lot. The Everest has fairly soft suspension and if you do want to carry stuff in the back I would recommend a WDH.
So, before progressing any further I suggest you load the van to capacity .. the heaviest you ever intend to travel and take it to a weighbridge. You need separate weights for the towball and wheels. It would be nice to empty it out so you know how accurate the Tare is, but that may be more hassle than you want and not really necessary.
It would also be good to weigh the front and rear on a similar Everest if you can so you know the starting point. Also when looking at vehicles, have you considered you may want a bigger van down the track?

Thanks Stephen, for your expected detailed reply, which will help the OP a lot. Couple of minor points to be corrected though, with the much adored, but severely over rated LC200's rear axle being rated at 1950kg which is 200 kg more than the Everest's.

Wheelbase difference is 50mm (2inches). In some circumstances 2 inches can make quite a BIG difference, but with cars the TBO in relation to wheelbase is probably more important.

As an aside, the Everest will quite capably and safely tow more than 2600-2700kg ATM, with 3100kg ATM absolute MAX , but still stay within its GCM of 6250kg. Perhaps you've again counted towball weight twice?

No time to explain further as it's not yet 4.30am here, and I've just started the Roadtrain to go to work.

Thanks again for doing the figures for Chris. Cheers

Us 3 · Newbie

Guys, thank you all very much for all this information.
My head is spinning with all this weight talk. I understand the need and will spend the next couple of days learning to better understand it all, and I will be doing a lot more research into exactly what we want to do, where we want to go, and just how we do it.
BTW, 3rd passenger is a disability/mobility assistance dog, 35kg.
I really appreciate your comments and thoughts.

I need some aspirin. lol.

cheers all.

yobarr · Guru

Us 3 wrote:
Guys, thank you all very much for all this information.
My head is spinning with all this weight talk. I understand the need and will spend the next couple of days learning to better understand it all, and I will be doing a lot more research into exactly what we want to do, where we want to go, and just how we do it.
BTW, 3rd passenger is a disability/mobility assistance dog, 35kg.
I really appreciate your comments and thoughts.

I need some aspirin. lol.

cheers all.

Briefly, the weight on the wheels of the car MUST be at least 10% greater than the weight on the wheels of the van when you're loaded, ready to travel. Rear axle weight is the biggest single problem that caravanners face, but DO NOT be tempted to reduce towball weight below 10% of the van's loaded weight in an effort to get weight off car's rear axle. Gotta go. Sorry

-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 20th of January 2024 09:24:28 AM

Are We Lost · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Couple of minor points to be corrected though, with the much adored, but severely over rated LC200's rear axle being rated at 1950kg which is 200 kg more than the Everest's.
Wheelbase difference is 50mm (2inches). In some circumstances 2 inches can make quite a BIG difference, but with cars the TBO in relation to wheelbase is probably more important.
....
Perhaps you've again counted towball weight twice?

Thanks Yobarr. You are quite right that I had the LC200 rear axle rating wrong. 1950kg it is. Its substantially heavier kerb weight helps with stability at the expense of reduced payload, particularly over the rear axle.

That 50mm shorter wheelbase in the LC is exacerbated by a slightly greater towball overhang than the Everest. Thus the Everest ratio of wheelbase to towball overhang is noticeably better. The greater that ratio, the more it can resist porpoising and sway developing.

Did I count towball weight twice? No. Just double checked. The GCM limit of 6,250kg has plenty of spare capacity. The GVM also has plenty (maybe 300kg still available), but that is not a lot if you want to carry a lot of goodies like drawers, fridge, bullbar, winch etc in addition to what normally goes in the back when going on holidays.

The limiting factor is that the rear axle only has about 550kg available from kerb weight .... assuming my guess of 1200kg on the rear when empty is correct. If it is only 1100kg and therefore around 1300kg on the front (unlikely to be that much difference), it still does not leave much capacity for those goodies. Every kg of towball load eats about 1.4kg of that available capacity. Of course if the van weight distribution when laden results in less than 270kg towball load, that makes a greater reduction in rear axle load. But that reduction in towball load is at the expense of departing from the generally considered ideal of 10%, so stability would be impacted. A heavy tow vehicle and light van reduces that impact.

That leads to Yobarr's comment on vehicle weight vs van weight. The heavier the vehicle in comparison, the better. Winch and bullbar would actually help because they are right at the front. Rather than Yobarr's guideline, I prefer just that the laden (disconnected) vehicle weighs more than the laden van. Caravan Council of Australia is very conservative and says 30% greater. Configured as suggested, and keeping weight in the Everest down due to the rear axle rating, the Everest would be slightly heavier.

I think the Everest would be fine to tow this van but needs a bit of balance to know what can be carried and pack the vehicle carefully, with heavier items as far forward as possible. I can't see how it could safely tow 3100kg.

A WDH would enable some weight to be transferred off that rear axle onto the front, thus allowing more goodies to be carried in the back. But to set the system up so that the WDH MUST be used to be legal is not a good solution.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 20th of January 2024 12:50:55 PM

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
I think the Everest would be fine to tow this van but needs a bit of balance to know what can be carried and pack the vehicle carefully, with heavier items as far forward as possible. I can't see how it could safely tow 3100kg.
A WDH would enable some weight to be transferred off that rear axle onto the front, thus allowing more goodies to be carried in the back. But to set the system up so that the WDH MUST be used to be legal is not a good solution.

Hi Stephen That assertion was made after I did quick figures in my head while driving the truck, and were given only as a guide.

However, I can now confirm they're pretty close. With a van that has ATM of 3100kg, , using the the generally accepted 10% towball weight, you would have weight on van wheels (GTM?) of 2790kg.

Car's GVM is 3100kg which is 10% greater than this van's GTM.

Borderline, but many times safer than the vast majority of setups I see on the greatly overrated, but universally adored, LC200.

LC200 can tow 3500kg as a PIG trailer? Tell 'em they're dreaming. Cheers

P.S Thanks for your input on these weights and towing issues. You seem to now have a good grasp of things, which is great!

Makes my life a lot easier! Cheers

vince56 · Senior Member

Hi Us3, you have replies from well-documented LC200 haters, I have one and love it! Best tow car on the market that can do other transport tasks very well indeed!
If there are any shortcomings with your set-up just keep in mind that LC200's suspension can be modified quite economically to achieve better capacities. You can upgrade GVM easily, mine has an extra 300kg capacity for $2500 including engineer certificate and there are many companies that upgrade rear ends etc to allow far greater towing ability. Don't be put off, if you look into them they are a fantastic car.
Next time you are out on the highway just take a look at the amount of LC200/300's that are out there towing. Let this mob drive their tractor-like trucks.
Mate of mine has the V6 Everest and tows 2700kg and loves it BTW.

yobarr · Guru

vince56 wrote:
Hi Us3, you have replies from well-documented LC200 haters, I have one and love it! Best tow car on the market that can do other transport tasks very well indeed!
If there are any shortcomings with your set-up just keep in mind that LC200's suspension can be modified quite economically to achieve better capacities. You can upgrade GVM easily, mine has an extra 300kg capacity for $2500 including engineer certificate and there are many companies that upgrade rear ends etc to allow far greater towing ability. Don't be put off, if you look into them they are a fantastic car.
Next time you are out on the highway just take a look at the amount of LC200/300's that are out there towing. Let this mob drive their tractor-like trucks.
Mate of mine has the V6 Everest and tows 2700kg and loves it BTW.

Interesting post, Vince. The LC200 is indeed a great car, comfortable, powerful, roomy and it holds its value well.

However, in standard form it has NO show of safely towing a 3500kg PIG trailer. (Caravan). None.

Not sure what GVM upgrade you've had, as 300kg is an unusual number, but the other upgrades, 3850kg I think, result in a rear axle increased capacity to 2000kg, a miserable 50kg. Why would you bother.

A GVM upgrade is great for TOURING where it enables the car to carry more, but for towing it is next to useless and only done by people who don't understand weights.

Too tired to do all figures for you, but generally GVM upgrades are a con-job for a tow vehicle. Cheers

P.S Don't be fooled by the large numbers of LC200s you see on the highways, as they are bought by sheep who know little about weights, and are easily tricked by smooth-talking salesmen. The LC300 is worse, but we won't get into that.

When I was in East Germany I was amazed by the huge numbers of Trabants, until I realised that there was no other choice.

LC200s are like mothers. Everyone has one. (Was going to use another word, but didn't bother).

Are We Lost · Guru

vince56 wrote:
Hi Us3, you have replies from well-documented LC200 haters, ......

Vince, I agree the power and weight of a LC200 make it a great tow vehicle for those who carry little in the back or do not have a heavy van. Can you please tell me how a standard LC200 would legally tow my van with 340kg towball load and all the goodies I want for freecamping on an extended trip. My PX2 Ford Ranger can.

Try this on a LC200. 340kg towball load when fully laden means almost 500kg added to the rear axle load. Adding 2 passengers that is now around 550kg added. Where do I put the spare fuel and water, portable grey water tank (usually empty), portable solar panel, fishing gear, snorkelling gear, tables and chairs, esky, firewood, camp cooking things, tools, spare parts, recovery ramps and a myriad of smaller things used for freecamping? I also carry power leads, sullage hose and a few other things usually carried in the van to keep van weight down. No chance of getting anywhere near all that in a LC200 without overloading the rear axle.

So I could pay double or more for a LC and still have to shell out more money to equal what I can carry with the standard Ranger.

If I had a lighter van and did not want to take all those goodies with me, then I agreee, the LC200 would be a great option. But it simply can't do what the standard Ranger does. And it still has the impossible to change short wheelbase.

Yobarr and I have had numerous disagreements but this one I agree with him.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Sunday 21st of January 2024 07:12:04 PM

dogbox · Guru

i was in East Germany once upon a time seen a lot of Russian tanks

Gundog · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
vince56 wrote:
Hi Us3, you have replies from well-documented LC200 haters, ......
Vince, I agree the power and weight of a LC200 make it a great tow vehicle for those who carry little in the back or do not have a heavy van. Can you please tell me how a standard LC200 would legally tow my van with 340kg towball load and all the goodies I want for freecamping on an extended trip. My PX2 Ford Ranger can.
Try this on a LC200. 340kg towball load when fully laden means almost 500kg added to the rear axle load. Adding 2 passengers that is now around 550kg added. Where do I put the spare fuel and water, portable grey water tank (usually empty), portable solar panel, fishing gear, snorkelling gear, tables and chairs, esky, firewood, camp cooking things, tools, spare parts, recovery ramps and a myriad of smaller things used for freecamping? I also carry power leads, sullage hose and a few other things usually carried in the van to keep van weight down. No chance of getting anywhere near all that in a LC200 without overloading the rear axle.
So I could pay double or more for a LC and still have to shell out more money to equal what I can carry with the standard Ranger.
If I had a lighter van and did not want to take all those goodies with me, then I agreee, the LC200 would be a great option. But it simply can't do what the standard Ranger does. And it still has the impossible to change short wheelbase.
Yobarr and I have had numerous disagreements but this one I agree with him.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Sunday 21st of January 2024 07:12:04 PM

AWL you cannot compare two different types of vehicles, both have a high towable rating, one is a large family station wagon the other is a utility, one is designed to carry people the other cargo, there is no comparison.

If I want to to a heavy van from park to park in luxury comfort with a table and a couple chairs in the luggage area then the LC200 fits the bill, much to the chagrin of yobarr, because of potential of the low rear axle weight I would properly use a WDH to move weight forward, where in your case a free camper a utility is better choice you can chose between an upmarket twin cab like the Ranger or a farm ute like the LC79.

Contrary again to yobarrs pontificating it depends on how much feel good stuff you want to chuck in the van on tug, every day out on the road I see plenty of large vans being towed by popular twin cabs and LC's sometimes the raw numbers paint an ugly picture, but there maybe a work around to fit within the specs.

Oh just another little nugget of gold that annoys yobarr Toyota reccomend the use of a WDH when the trailer out weighs the tow vehicle, how does that work when CCA suggests tow vehicle should be heavier, who's right. Hmm.

AndyCap100 · Senior Member

Hi us3. Firstly weigh your caravan on an independant weighbridge .The manufacturers tare will not be the same as the actual weight .We owned a 2018 Journey(20ft) for 3 yrs from new ,EVERYTHING you put in or on the caravan will alter Jayco`s declared caravan weight .Batteries ,solar ,gas bottles,water in the tanks ,bedding etc .etc ,right down to the can of baked beans in the cupboard . Our actual towing weight was nearer 2,500 kg when loaded to go away !
Our current 2021 Jayco Journey (21ft) has a manufacturers tare of only 2,318 kg on the plate . In going away loaded mode its actually nearer 2,700 kg .
As regards towing ,we have a 2018 Mitsubishi Triton 4x4. Its only 5 speed and gets noisy constantly jumping up and down gears 4-5th . . Power is ok though ,no problems ,pulls the caravan well and all feels safe , and we have a lot of big winding hills/mountain passes here in NZ . comfort is excellant .We use approx 16 lts per 100km . The new 6 speed would be better .We tow with approx 250 kg `on the ball` .
Hope this helps .
Cheers Andy .

Possum3 · Guru

vince56 wrote:
Hi Us3, you have replies from well-documented LC200 haters, I have one and love it! Best tow car on the market that can do other transport tasks very well indeed!
If there are any shortcomings with your set-up just keep in mind that LC200's suspension can be modified quite economically to achieve better capacities. You can upgrade GVM easily, mine has an extra 300kg capacity for $2500 including engineer certificate and there are many companies that upgrade rear ends etc to allow far greater towing ability. Don't be put off, if you look into them they are a fantastic car.
Next time you are out on the highway just take a look at the amount of LC200/300's that are out there towing. Let this mob drive their tractor-like trucks.
Mate of mine has the V6 Everest and tows 2700kg and loves it BTW.

Vince, the Y62 Patrol will eat any LC for breakfast; It has more power, more roomy inside cabin, can safely and legally tow 3.5tonne Caravan (Pig Trailer), much quieter both inside and outside cabin, more economical towing, additionally saving around 40cent/litre (petrol vs Diesel).

Common rail diesels are prone to very expensive overhauls if fuel is contaminated. This is why the boys in the bush are changing over from their previously loved Toyota's. Fuel quality is variable in the bush even in larger cities/towns.

vince56 · Senior Member

Yeah yeah yeah, As I said I am very happy with the LC200, love it. For MY situation it is perfect and when I come to sell it I will get most of my purchase price back which is an unbeatable situation. UNLIKE some other notable vehicles, ie Y62, Ranger etc.
You drive what you want, you don't have to justify your choice of wheels, nor do I, all I was doing was pointing out to the OP that there are people on here who hate LC200/300's but there ARE alternative upgrades to make them suit YOUR situation, not a blanket NO-GO as some would "recommend".

yobarr · Guru

Gundog wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:
vince56 wrote:
Hi Us3, you have replies from well-documented LC200 haters, ......
Vince, I agree the power and weight of a LC200 make it a great tow vehicle for those who carry little in the back or do not have a heavy van. Can you please tell me how a standard LC200 would legally tow my van with 340kg towball load and all the goodies I want for freecamping on an extended trip. My PX2 Ford Ranger can.
Try this on a LC200. 340kg towball load when fully laden means almost 500kg added to the rear axle load. Adding 2 passengers that is now around 550kg added. Where do I put the spare fuel and water, portable grey water tank (usually empty), portable solar panel, fishing gear, snorkelling gear, tables and chairs, esky, firewood, camp cooking things, tools, spare parts, recovery ramps and a myriad of smaller things used for freecamping? I also carry power leads, sullage hose and a few other things usually carried in the van to keep van weight down. No chance of getting anywhere near all that in a LC200 without overloading the rear axle.
So I could pay double or more for a LC and still have to shell out more money to equal what I can carry with the standard Ranger.
If I had a lighter van and did not want to take all those goodies with me, then I agreee, the LC200 would be a great option. But it simply can't do what the standard Ranger does. And it still has the impossible to change short wheelbase.
Yobarr and I have had numerous disagreements but this one I agree with him.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Sunday 21st of January 2024 07:12:04 PM
AWL you cannot compare two different types of vehicles, both have a high towable rating, one is a large family station wagon the other is a utility, one is designed to carry people the other cargo, there is no comparison.
If I want to to a heavy van from park to park in luxury comfort with a table and a couple chairs in the luggage area then the LC200 fits the bill, much to the chagrin of yobarr, because of potential of the low rear axle weight I would properly use a WDH to move weight forward, where in your case a free camper a utility is better choice you can chose between an upmarket twin cab like the Ranger or a farm ute like the LC79.
Contrary again to yobarrs pontificating it depends on how much feel good stuff you want to chuck in the van on tug, every day out on the road I see plenty of large vans being towed by popular twin cabs and LC's sometimes the raw numbers paint an ugly picture, but there maybe a work around to fit within the specs.
Oh just another little nugget of gold that annoys yobarr Toyota reccomend the use of a WDH when the trailer out weighs the tow vehicle, how does that work when CCA suggests tow vehicle should be heavier, who's right. Hmm.

Graham, this post shows that STILL you do not understand the negatives of using a WDH to try to make a car do things for which it never was designed. You suggest that if a heavy van us to be towed a WDH will take weight off the car's rear axle.

This is true, but it also will transfer weight to the van's axle group, which can put the van over its ATM or AGR. (Axle group rating).

Overloaded, unsafe, uninsured. Period.

Gotta go now as Roadtrain is loaded, but I would like to suggest that you do more study? Cheers

Greg 1 · Guru

A WDH will not increase the vans ATM. ATM is the maximum loaded weight of the van and it's contents including gas and water when weighed off the car resting on it's jockey wheel. Other than having the WDH components resting on the drawbar when weighing the van, a WDH cannot, and will not ever increase the ATM. It may increase it's GTM (load on it's axle group) which maybe an issue if you are very close to the limit to start with. With my van it adds between 15 to 20 kgs to it's GTM on my average load. It's not sheep stations. Like all other weights I just take that into account when loading the rig.

Bobdown · Guru

vince56 wrote:
Yeah yeah yeah, As I said I am very happy with the LC200, love it. For MY situation it is perfect and when I come to sell it I will get most of my purchase price back which is an unbeatable situation. UNLIKE some other notable vehicles, ie Y62, Ranger etc.
You drive what you want, you don't have to justify your choice of wheels, nor do I, all I was doing was pointing out to the OP that there are people on here who hate LC200/300's but there ARE alternative upgrades to make them suit YOUR situation, not a blanket NO-GO as some would "recommend".

x2 Vince.

Any walk through a caravan park in N/W of WA will show how popular the LC200 is, I would say 2 to 1 other tugs.

And with a LC200, you don't have to put a canopy on the back to lock up your stuff, you also don't have to carry 1 ton in the tray to get the tug 10% heavier than the van.

As I have stated before Yobarr, not everyone wants to haul around 3500 kg of Off Road caravan, the Cruiser will tow the 3100 kg van, more comfortably and safer than most other vehicles.

Are We Lost · Guru

vince56 wrote:
Yeah yeah yeah, As I said I am very happy with the LC200, love it. For MY situation it is perfect ....

I think my comment covered that .... "Vince, I agree the power and weight of a LC200 make it a great tow vehicle for those who carry little in the back or do not have a heavy van." So we agree.

The difference is the LC200 simply can not do what I want while the Ranger can. On that basis there is no point trying to compare.

My van is 3000kg when fully laden for extended trips where freecamping is the preference. This includes full water tanks and it has 11% towball load (ATM is 3200kg). As a LC200 can't do the job, would you give advice to someone with a van and usage like this to get one?

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Monday 22nd of January 2024 01:52:41 PM

yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
vince56 wrote:
Yeah yeah yeah, As I said I am very happy with the LC200, love it. For MY situation it is perfect and when I come to sell it I will get most of my purchase price back which is an unbeatable situation. UNLIKE some other notable vehicles, ie Y62, Ranger etc.
You drive what you want, you don't have to justify your choice of wheels, nor do I, all I was doing was pointing out to the OP that there are people on here who hate LC200/300's but there ARE alternative upgrades to make them suit YOUR situation, not a blanket NO-GO as some would "recommend".
x2 Vince.
Any walk through a caravan park in N/W of WA will show how popular the LC200 is, I would say 2 to 1 other tugs.
And with a LC200, you don't have to put a canopy on the back to lock up your stuff, you also don't have to carry 1 ton in the tray to get the tug 10% heavier than the van.
As I have stated before Yobarr, not everyone wants to haul around 3500 kg of Off Road caravan, the Cruiser will tow the 3100kg van, more comfortably and safer than most other vehicles.

Agreed that it can safely tow around 3100kg, but that's it.

Safely? Stupidly short wheelbase makes this unlikely.

The fact that there are many of these cars towing means simply that there are few other options, and people are like sheep.

One says "Baaa, good car is this" and the others then say "Baa, we'll get one".

The fact that the car can't safely tow what it is allowed to tow doesn't register. Baaaa.

Most over-rated vehicle around. Cheers

Craig1 · Guru

short wheelbase makes it very easy to park and do a u turn. biggrin biggrin

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

yobarr wrote:
Graham, this post shows that STILL you do not understand the negatives of using a WDH to try to make a car do things for which it never was designed. You suggest that if a heavy van us to be towed a WDH will take weight off the car's rear axle.
This is true, but it also will transfer weight to the van's axle group, which can put the van over its ATM or AGR. (Axle group rating).
Overloaded, unsafe, uninsured. Period.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yobar, I suggest that you are confusing weight and mass again.

The WDH transfers WEIGHT.

The ATM, AGR are MASS ratings, NOT WEIGHT ratings, deliberately so. The MASS of the van and the MASS supported by the rear axle of the tug do not change.

Cheers,

Peter

Bobdown · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Bobdown wrote:
vince56 wrote:
Yeah yeah yeah, As I said I am very happy with the LC200, love it. For MY situation it is perfect and when I come to sell it I will get most of my purchase price back which is an unbeatable situation. UNLIKE some other notable vehicles, ie Y62, Ranger etc.
You drive what you want, you don't have to justify your choice of wheels, nor do I, all I was doing was pointing out to the OP that there are people on here who hate LC200/300's but there ARE alternative upgrades to make them suit YOUR situation, not a blanket NO-GO as some would "recommend".
x2 Vince.
Any walk through a caravan park in N/W of WA will show how popular the LC200 is, I would say 2 to 1 other tugs.
And with a LC200, you don't have to put a canopy on the back to lock up your stuff, you also don't have to carry 1 ton in the tray to get the tug 10% heavier than the van.
As I have stated before Yobarr, not everyone wants to haul around 3500 kg of Off Road caravan, the Cruiser will tow the 3100kg van, more comfortably and safer than most other vehicles.
Agreed that it can safely tow around 3100kg, but that's it.
Safely? Stupidly short wheelbase makes this unlikely.
The fact that there are many of these cars towing means simply that there are few other options, and people are like sheep.
One says "Baaa, good car is this" and the others then say "Baa, we'll get one".
The fact that the car can't safely tow what it is allowed to tow doesn't register. Baaaa.
Most over-rated vehicle around. Cheers

Yobarr, you intentionally cherry pick a word or two out of anyones' post and ignore the rest of the statement.

Your 79 series hasn't got a hope in hell of weighing 10% more than your van.....UNLESS you whack another ton or so in the back, that makes it unsafe and unstable and a problem on the road. Right on it's GCM.

It also turns like the Queen Mary and drives like a grey Massey Ferguson tractor...........most over-rated and uncomfortable ute around.

BarneyBDB · Senior Member

The first post asked if a 2 litre vehicle was suitable to tow....

Does anyone wish to comment on this engine instead of just re hashing the endless argument???

yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:

Yobarr, you intentionally cherry pick a word or two out of anyones' post and ignore the rest of the statement.

Your 79 series hasn't got a hope in hell of weighing 10% more than your van.....UNLESS you whack another ton or so in the back, that makes it unsafe and unstable and a problem on the road. Right on it's GCM.
It also turns like the Queen Mary and drives like a grey Massey Ferguson tractor...........most over-rated and uncomfortable ute around.

Sorry Bob, this vehicle may be alien to you, but the 79 is a man's ute and never was intended to be comfortable.

But when it comes to chassis, diffs, bearings, clutches, engines, steering and suspensionall built for durability, nothing compares.

It's built to drag, tow and haul, and do so for many years, long after all the other show-ponies have died.

Perhaps you could explain why it now is impossible to order a new 79, why there is a 2 year waiting list, and why second-hand examples are fetching up to $40,000 more than new price?

Only a very few truly need a 79, but for these people nothing compares or competes. OK? Cheers

P.S If you wanna give me $20,000 and your LC200, I will consider selling mine to you.

GVM 3780kg, Solar with 180ah Lithium, 2kw Victron inverter for 240 volt in aluminium canopy, 180 litres water tanks, Warn 9000 winch, diff locks and cross locks. and much more!

Bobdown · Guru

BarneyBDB wrote:
The first post asked if a 2 litre vehicle was suitable to tow....

Does anyone wish to comment on this engine instead of just re hashing the endless argument???

I would say no to a 2.0 lt, go for the 3 lt V6.

Yobarr, you still dodged the question I posed as you always do, dodgy Chris the conman.

You would have to give me $150k plus lots of beer to drive your overloaded tractor, how unsafe are you with 3.5 ton on the back ????

yobarr · Guru

Bobdown wrote:
BarneyBDB wrote:
The first post asked if a 2 litre vehicle was suitable to tow....

Does anyone wish to comment on this engine instead of just re hashing the endless argument???
I would say no to a 2.0 lt, go for the 3 lt V6.
Yobarr, you still dodged the question I posed as you always do, dodgy Chris the conman.
You would have to give me $150k plus lots of beer to drive your overloaded tractor, how unsafe are you with 3.5 ton on the back ????

No need to panic Bob. All legal, all safe . Legal on every axle at 1350kg steer, 2300kg rear axle, 3150kg on van axles. Right on factory GCM 6800kg. Cheers

P.S. Oh, almost forgot! Weight on wheels of car is 11.6% more than weight on wheels of van. All legal, all safe. Easy