The abuse of the NDIS

JayDee · Guru

The abuse of the NDIS

dorian · Guru

JayDee wrote:
The abuse I refer to is. This did happen.
One person wanted to see Ayers Rock, so "puff" it was granted. The cost involved wages for a full-time carer, airfares, and accommodation at Alice Springs. Taxi fares and cost of a special handicapped vehicle to the Rock and back to the Alice. Etc Etc. Can one imagine the total cost for this request?

This is so outrageous and bizarre that I'll have to reserve judgment until it can be verified.

Magnarc · Guru

dorian wrote:
JayDee wrote:
The abuse I refer to is. This did happen.
One person wanted to see Ayers Rock, so "puff" it was granted. The cost involved wages for a full-time carer, airfares, and accommodation at Alice Springs. Taxi fares and cost of a special handicapped vehicle to the Rock and back to the Alice. Etc Etc. Can one imagine the total cost for this request?
This is so outrageous and bizarre that I'll have to reserve judgment until it can be verified.

I'm with you on this one Dorian.

dogbox · Guru

anytime government money (our money) is involved there will always be someone who will try and out smart the system and abuse it for personal gain. large percent gets used up in admin, and in some cases there is not a lot left to do what it was intended for.

if the case mentioned is true then a lot of people would have been consulted/advised (all on big salaries) of the situation let them be held accountable for the funds if it is deemed OVER THE TOP

i think it is time people up the food chain on pay grades most of us could only dream about be held accountable for decisions they make or are responsible for.

TimTim · Guru

dorian wrote:
JayDee wrote:
The abuse I refer to is. This did happen.
One person wanted to see Ayers Rock, so "puff" it was granted. The cost involved wages for a full-time carer, airfares, and accommodation at Alice Springs. Taxi fares and cost of a special handicapped vehicle to the Rock and back to the Alice. Etc Etc. Can one imagine the total cost for this request?
This is so outrageous and bizarre that I'll have to reserve judgment until it can be verified.

Well Dorian I will back JayDee on this one because people have no idea how pathetic the system is. I watch on TV the stories of people being unable to get funding and shake my head because of the first hand experience of someone we know.

A woman whose son has mental health issues and has a career come in to look after him when the mother isnt there. The mother wanted to take a trip to Dubai. A NDIS career went with them to Dubai with the airfare being paid by the mother but hotel accommodation, meals and everything else paid by the NDIS. The mother was telling us all about the trip and abruptly stopped when she saw the expression on my wife face.

The NDIS system is a massive failure.

Bicyclecamper · Guru

So you people don't think that the disabled, who can't get about like the able bodied, are not entitiled to a holiday, they should sit inside their houses, and vegetate. It is an approved thing that they get the holiday, probably never get one again in their lifetime, so is it fair on tax payers, yes it is, you don't kick up a stink, when your shire council goes on a junket, or when federal pollies do the same thing day in day out, but if a disabled person gets a holiday, woe is me!

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 15th of May 2024 09:24:22 AM

dorian · Guru

A friend of my brother was caring for a recently deceased wife who had MS, or motor neurone disease, or some such disablement. They had a two-storey house but were unable to get the NDIS to fund modifications that would have enabled his wife to go upstairs on her own. The reasoning was that they could have set up living quarters for her on the ground floor, even though her bedroom was upstairs. How would it look if the husband and wife had been granted a holiday funded by the same authority that had denied them these home improvements?

I don't think that denying someone a taxpayer funded holiday is unreasonable or heartless, given that there are people who need this money, a scarce resource, for medical costs and day-to-day survival.

JayDee · Guru

Let me add that I can put my hand on the bible and say that my opening of this post is 100% correct.
I will also add that the person in question ( a male) receives a fortnightly visit to the "Ladies of the Night"

This time I say good luck to him. It would better than a holiday.

Jay&Dee

Bicyclecamper · Guru

Obviously disabled people who have needs in the eyes of the Australian tax payer are not entitled to them like the able bodied are. Disabled people are lesser humans today, and they should be told that daily. I am disabled both from my army service, and in civilian life, so obviously I am not entitled to have my needs met.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 15th of May 2024 03:19:44 PM

Cupie · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:
So you people don't think that the disabled, who can't get about like the able bodied, are not entitiled to a holiday, they should sit inside their houses, and vegetate. It is an approved thing that they get the holiday, probably never get one again in their lifetime, so is it fair on tax payers, yes it is, you don't kick up a stink, when your shire council goes on a junket, or when federal pollies do the same thing day in day out, but if a disabled person gets a holiday, woe is me!

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 15th of May 2024 09:24:22 AM

Should add in all the business trips to exotic places.

I could provide first hand examples if you wish like a close relative who took his wife on an extended overseas first class trip to deliver a paper at a 'Conference'.

Magnarc · Guru

Flak jackets anyone??

dogbox · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:

So you people don't think that the disabled, who can't get about like the able bodied, are not entitiled to a holiday, they should sit inside their houses, and vegetate. It is an approved thing that they get the holiday, probably never get one again in their lifetime, so is it fair on tax payers, yes it is, you don't kick up a stink, when your shire council goes on a junket, or when federal pollies do the same thing day in day out, but if a disabled person gets a holiday, woe is me!

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 15th of May 2024 09:24:22 AM

I would have no problem with anyone going on holiday to any place they want, to do anything they can, if they can afford it!

what will be next? anyone on center link for 10 years gets an all-expense paid holiday to wherever they wish in lieu of long service leave at tax payers expense?

people in need are being denied services that they need and we hear of other people exploiting the system.

many a time I would have loved to go on a holiday to some exotic/happy place but could not afford it. WHY? because I had other more pressing matters that the funds were required for

dogbox · Guru

Cupie wrote:

Bicyclecamper wrote:
So you people don't think that the disabled, who can't get about like the able bodied, are not entitiled to a holiday, they should sit inside their houses, and vegetate. It is an approved thing that they get the holiday, probably never get one again in their lifetime, so is it fair on tax payers, yes it is, you don't kick up a stink, when your shire council goes on a junket, or when federal pollies do the same thing day in day out, but if a disabled person gets a holiday, woe is me!

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 15th of May 2024 09:24:22 AM
Should add in all the business trips to exotic places.
I could provide first hand examples if you wish like a close relative who took his wife on an extended overseas first class trip to deliver a paper at a 'Conference'.

was that trip funded by tax payers or a perk of the job?

DMaxer · Guru

In the medical and legal professions one is required to attend so many hours of face to face educational programs each year or one's practising certificate is not renewed. This usually equates to about ten hours per annum and these conferences are not cheap. Most are held in capital cities so there is not only the cost of the conference but also travel and accommodation.

These costs are a tax deduction as well as travel and accommodation costs. If one is delivering a paper then that is income and that would be taxed. If one takes the missus or girlfriend then presumably she would share the room anyway but her costs of travel would not be a deduction.

I know the ones I attended were nothing flash but it did set me back about $5K per year. It is much the same as a tradie claiming his tools and work car expenses.

Meredith · Senior Member

So where did you get the information that the NDIS covered this? Looking at NDIS guidelines it appears unlikely that 'poof' it happened. People who have a full time carer can take this carer on a vacation with them to work their normal hours, but travel expenses aren't covered. Accomodation and travel for the NDIS recipient aren't covered either but there is some leeway for grants if accomodation/travel expenses are above what would normally be paid by a non disabled person.

Cupie · Guru

dogbox wrote:
Cupie wrote:

Bicyclecamper wrote:
So you people don't think that the disabled, who can't get about like the able bodied, are not entitiled to a holiday, they should sit inside their houses, and vegetate. It is an approved thing that they get the holiday, probably never get one again in their lifetime, so is it fair on tax payers, yes it is, you don't kick up a stink, when your shire council goes on a junket, or when federal pollies do the same thing day in day out, but if a disabled person gets a holiday, woe is me!

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 15th of May 2024 09:24:22 AM
Should add in all the business trips to exotic places.
I could provide first hand examples if you wish like a close relative who took his wife on an extended overseas first class trip to deliver a paper at a 'Conference'.

was that trip funded by tax payers or a perk of the job?

Tax deductible.

What's the difference?

A cost to Govt finances whether it is taken at either the input side or the output side.

-- Edited by Cupie on Thursday 16th of May 2024 07:01:05 PM

dogbox · Guru

one of the lurks and perk/cost of doing business , the only way it can be tax deductible is if there is a tax liability.

Whenarewethere · Guru

No difference to investment property owners who do renovations... & where do the costs get charged to?

Peter_n_Margaret · Senior Member

To those who have all the answers......
Unless you are prepared to run for parliament you have no business complaining about the decisions made by those who do.
A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members. Mahatma Ghandi
Cheers,
Peter

dogbox · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:

No difference to investment property owners who do renovations... & where do the costs get charged to?

if a property investor renovates a property the money spent is a tax deduction on a depreciating scale not in a lump sum in the year of expenditure. the tax office will recoup a large percentage when sold with capital gains tax

dogbox · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

To those who have all the answers......

Unless you are prepared to run for parliament you have no business complaining about the decisions made by those who do.

A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members. Mahatma Ghandi

Cheers,

Peter

hopefully the person I voted for will speak for me, if not I will vote for someone who will next time round.

the NDIS has plenty of money allocated to it, but like so many things run by the government the abuser/smarties must be kept at bay. someone should be held accountable for the decisions made.

-- Edited by dogbox on Friday 17th of May 2024 07:08:52 PM

JayDee · Guru

P n M

First up, in the last 65 years, I have only voted Labor once... A guys by the name of Bob Hawke. Who I think was the best Labor P.M.

So I believe that I can make any comment I like about the side of government that I do not support.

More so than ever the Albo's government.

Anyway, this thread was about the abuse of the NDIS... seems to have gone off track of late..

Jay&Dee

Whenarewethere · Guru

dogbox wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:

No difference to investment property owners who do renovations... & where do the costs get charged to?

if a property investor renovates a property the money spent is a tax deduction on a depreciating scale not in a lump sum in the year of expenditure. the tax office will recoup a large percentage when sold with capital gains tax

The point is the renovations were not done on the investment property, or at best a small percentage.

Also another interesting scenario, an Investment Property Owner (IPO) wanted all the levies for block of units charged to the IPOs. They claim the increased levy. This was put to me... I didn't want to be part of it. But I was shocked at the schemes that some financial people come up with.

Meredith · Senior Member

I notice still no answer as to where you got any evidence that this actually happened? Lots of things get posted online that have no or little truth in them.

dogbox · Guru

Whenarewethere wrote:

dogbox wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:

No difference to investment property owners who do renovations... & where do the costs get charged to?

if a property investor renovates a property the money spent is a tax deduction on a depreciating scale not in a lump sum in the year of expenditure. the tax office will recoup a large percentage when sold with capital gains tax
The point is the renovations were not done on the investment property, or at best a small percentage.

Also another interesting scenario, an Investment Property Owner (IPO) wanted all the levies for block of units charged to the IPOs. They claim the increased levy. This was put to me... I didn't want to be part of it. But I was shocked at the schemes that some financial people come up with.

you only told part of the story as you describe it would be for the ATO to take action should they become aware. anytime government money is involved in whatever form its available, the smarties will be looking for loophole for easy money

if the case, as mentioned in OP happened it would have had to be approved (I would have thought) at various levels, starting with the case manager up to the minister in charge each level of approval would have an authorization budget anything over that would have to be approved by a higher pay grade. so highly likely the cost this case would have to be approved at various levels

-- Edited by dogbox on Saturday 18th of May 2024 09:39:29 AM

Greg 1 · Guru

My wife is a long term paraplegic for the last 48 years and is a NDIS recipient. For us the NDIS has been a very positive thing and we are very grateful for the support and the equipment that the NDIS has provided. It has made my wife's life so much easier on a number of levels. For anything major in spending, it. Over $500, she has to obtain permission for the spend and that permission can take upto 12 months to happen. It generally doesn't just happen in an instant. Whilst there is a section of people's NDIS plan where money is allocated for social support, that is for things like support people to take her shopping, out to church or other social gatherings that she might otherwise not be able to do. It gives someone as near as possible the opportunity to live a normal existence within their community. It does not pay for holidays. When we go caravanning we pay for it not NDIS. We payed for the custom van to enable us to go caravanning, not NDIS. Things like a specially modified vehicle, you have to buy the vehicle and NDIS will pay for the modifications to it to make it accessible and driveable by the disabled person. I don't doubt that someone has got away with a holiday being played for as we have heard of some very odd things being approved, but generally this is something that is not allowed for most recipients. Are there rorts in the system? Oh yes, but primarily by the registered service providers who will try to take advantage of every opportunity to rip of the system and the recipient. We have run into this many times, but Lyn manages her own plan being an ex accountant and stomps on any supplier trying it on. Over charging for services is the big one. NDIS have a quite generous allowance both in time and money for various services but most providers will try and charge double or more for that service. We know of one case where a gentleman required a nurse each day for 2 hours but his plan was being charged for 6 hours. He had his plan managed by the service provider. My wife finds people privately where she can as we get better service for less money than going through a registered provider. It enables her to stretch her allocated monies further. All in all though, it is a good scheme that has changed people's lives for the better.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Not NDIS, but other half is a dialysis patient, costing the State about $80,000 a year. I can see where the money goes on basic dialysis, let alone all the medical extras, & let alone any additional care.

Another patient we see all the time has been on dialysis for 24 years. No NDIS involved. Very brittle bones, was hit by the door into dialysis & ended up with broken bones. Has a more of less fulltime carer.

Not to forget that about a third of the Covid critical patients will end up on dialysis. Let alone all the not Covid patients.

PeterInSa · Guru

All the Best to You and Yours, Greg 1, ditto Wawt.

JayDee · Guru

Greg. My opening remarks were never meant for recipients like you guys. It merely was an example of the rip off by a very few people who will always find a way to abuse the system.
We wish you guys many years of enjoyable caravanning.

Jay&Dee

dogbox · Guru

I do not have a problem with spending the money if it is going to where it is needed, and it actually get to where it is needed.