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Post Info TOPIC: Battery mounting inside of a caravan.


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Battery mounting inside of a caravan.


Hi guys; Some sparky may be able to shred a bit of light on the subject.

What are the requirements for mounting batteries inside of your caravan. As far as i can find out, the batteries can be mounted in a non habital space, this i would read as under the bed or couch or cuboard or outside mounted to the chassie of the caravan and inclosed into a vented inclosure ?? My problem is that while i have 2 x 220 Ah AGM batteries under my bed, these i would think now haveing reach the end of life use and i have ordered one 300 Ah lifepo4 Lithium battery in the same spot as the old AGM batteries. But what about the " vented " inclosure, and if the same rules would apply to a caravan that is now over 12 years old. A 300 Ah lithium battery is a little on the large size and i'm unable to find a inclosure that would house the new battery.  



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msg


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I just watched a video on UTube about this. Bloke said he was a experienced qualified elecctrician (?You can't belive everything you hear and see though) But what he said made sense.

www.youtube.com/watch

Make of it what you will. This is not a recommendation and I have no connection to the author.

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Hi Stephen, I am not a Sparky.

My three 135AH LiFePO4 batteries are situated in the bed cavity which is not vented. Been like that for four years. Not aware that Lithium batteries require venting, as wet cell batteries.

Interesting to see the more recent regulations in the YouTube video as posted by msg.

I have a skylight vent above the bed so any mishap may eject me through the ceiling. biggrinbiggrinbiggrin



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Cheers, Richard (Dick0)

"Home is where the Den is parked, Designer Orchid Special towed by Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited"

"4x250W solar panels, Epever 80A charger and 3x135Ah Voltax Prismatic LiFePO4 Batteries".



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AS_NZS_3001.2

250kb pdf:

https://www.diycaravans.com.au/wp-content/uploads/AS_NZS_3001.2_Technical_Bulletin_Batteries.pdf

 

Lead-Acid Batteries

The following requirements apply to all types of lead-acid batteries and apply in addition to the general requirements above.

The location of the battery must allow for easy access for maintenance or removal.

A spill tray must be installed under the battery(ies) that can hold a minimum 20% of the electrolyte held by the battery(ies)

 

1. External locations

External locations are defined as being open to the environment or outside the enclosed, habitable area of the recreational vehicle.

Batteries located externally must be either in a ventilated battery compartment or on a spill tray and open to the environment.

The location must provide sufficient mechanical/structural protection against damage from rocks and debris during recreational vehicle travel.

If located in a battery compartment, ventilation must be provided that prevents any vented gases entering the habitable area of the recreational vehicle.

 

2. Internal locations

A battery located internally in the recreational vehicle must be located in a battery compartment that is vented to the outside of the vehicle. Any opening into the interior (habitable area) must be provided with an air seal.

The battery compartment must be ventilated by one of the following methods:

Installing a battery that incorporates an external ventilation kit that opens to the exterior of the vehicle and ensuring that it is installed in line with the battery manufacturer's instructions.

Providing tube ventilation above the battery and a lower vent opening in the compartment

Providing upper and lower vent openings within 50mm of the top/bottom of the compartment, eg vents in the compartment door.

For full details refer clause 5.4.11.4 and Figures 5.3-5.5.

Battery ventilation openings have a minimum vent area requirement, which is calculated based on the ratings of the battery. The calculation formula and an example can be found in clause 5.4.11.5.



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msg wrote:

I just watched a video on UTube about this. .......what he said made sense.


 To save people from having to watch through 25 minutes of video, what is the opinion in regards to the OP's question?



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Whenarewethere wrote:

AS_NZS_3001.2

250kb pdf:

https://www.diycaravans.com.au/wp-content/uploads/AS_NZS_3001.2_Technical_Bulletin_Batteries.pdf

 

Lead-Acid Batteries

The following requirements apply to all types of lead-acid batteries and apply in addition to the general requirements above.

The location of the battery must allow for easy access for maintenance or removal.

A spill tray must be installed under the battery(ies) that can hold a minimum 20% of the electrolyte held by the battery(ies)

 

1. External locations

External locations are defined as being open to the environment or outside the enclosed, habitable area of the recreational vehicle.

Batteries located externally must be either in a ventilated battery compartment or on a spill tray and open to the environment.

The location must provide sufficient mechanical/structural protection against damage from rocks and debris during recreational vehicle travel.

If located in a battery compartment, ventilation must be provided that prevents any vented gases entering the habitable area of the recreational vehicle.

 

2. Internal locations

A battery located internally in the recreational vehicle must be located in a battery compartment that is vented to the outside of the vehicle. Any opening into the interior (habitable area) must be provided with an air seal.

The battery compartment must be ventilated by one of the following methods:

Installing a battery that incorporates an external ventilation kit that opens to the exterior of the vehicle and ensuring that it is installed in line with the battery manufacturer's instructions.

Providing tube ventilation above the battery and a lower vent opening in the compartment

Providing upper and lower vent openings within 50mm of the top/bottom of the compartment, eg vents in the compartment door.

For full details refer clause 5.4.11.4 and Figures 5.3-5.5.

Battery ventilation openings have a minimum vent area requirement, which is calculated based on the ratings of the battery. The calculation formula and an example can be found in clause 5.4.11.5.


 What about LiFePO4 batteries?



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Cheers, Richard (Dick0)

"Home is where the Den is parked, Designer Orchid Special towed by Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited"

"4x250W solar panels, Epever 80A charger and 3x135Ah Voltax Prismatic LiFePO4 Batteries".



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Dick0 wrote:

 What about LiFePO4 batteries?


 Same requirements.

Cheers,

Peter



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OKA196 DIY, self contained 4WD MH, 1160W PV, 326Ah of CALB LiFePO4 batteries, 1.3kW inv, 310L water, 350-450L diesel.



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The above pdf link opens on my phone if I press & hold on it, then you have the full pdf. Even using Kiwi Browser (less ads).

 

Lithium-Ion Batteries

The following requirements apply to all types of lithium-ion batteries and apply in addition to the general requirements above.

Batteries must be located externally - ie behind a wall, compartment or barrier that prevents any vented gases entering the habitable area of the recreational vehicle.

The installer is required to consult with the battery manufacturer and supplier to confirm a compartment and venting design that is appropriate for the type of battery.

The location must be appropriate to ensure that the battery operates within the manufacturer's defined operating temperatures and IP rating.

If the battery manufacturer has not provided encapsulated cells, the battery must be installed in a suitable container.

Lithium-ion batteries must comply with AS IEC 62619.

Note: this standard is available through Caravan Industry Association of Australia and the i2i platform. See access details at the end of this bulletin.

Battery Management Safety System

Each lithium-ion battery must be provided with a battery management safety system, either integrated into the battery pack or as a separate component.

Located within or adjacent to the battery - no greater than 600mm from the battery Continuously monitor and protect against O Over and under voltage

Over and under temperature

Over current

Must be supplied by the same manufacturer as the battery cells or be in line with their recommendations.

Battery Monitoring Device

Each lithium-ion battery (or bank of batteries) must be monitored by a suitable battery monitor - designed for monitoring lithium ion batteries.

The monitor must display the state of charge and may display battery voltage.

Communications between the battery management safety system and the battery monitor/display may be either a wired or wireless connection.



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Whenarewethere wrote:

The above pdf link opens on my phone if I press & hold on it, then you have the full pdf. Even using Kiwi Browser (less ads).

 

Lithium-Ion Batteries

 


 Does this also refer to LiFePO4 batteries or only Lithium-Ion?



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Cheers, Richard (Dick0)

"Home is where the Den is parked, Designer Orchid Special towed by Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited"

"4x250W solar panels, Epever 80A charger and 3x135Ah Voltax Prismatic LiFePO4 Batteries".



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LiFePO4 is one of the Lithium Ion chemistries.
Cheers,
Peter

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OKA196 DIY, self contained 4WD MH, 1160W PV, 326Ah of CALB LiFePO4 batteries, 1.3kW inv, 310L water, 350-450L diesel.



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Following Peter's comment I think the terminology could do with bit of clarification.

While technically correct that the term Lithium-ion covers LiFePO4, as battery technology evolves, Lithium-ion is becoming less commonly used for LiFePO4 batteries.

The LiFePO4 refers to the chemistry ..... Lithium, Iron and Phosphate. Whereas Lithium-ion now generally refers to the non phosphate chemistries. Lithium-ion is more energy dense than Lithium Phosphate, but does have a greater thermal runaway risk. There are many articles pointing to the distinction. Here are a couple:

Evergen-Energy

LithiumBatteryTech



-- Edited by Are We Lost on Tuesday 11th of June 2024 12:22:15 PM

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msg


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I suggest you acquire the new regulations that the guy on UTube was discussing to verify what he is saying and his interpretation for those arguing technical points on names etc.
Take time out, listen to him and you will have your answers.
These are new revised regulations that apply to 12v systems
FYI. Keeping it simple. LifeP04 are unlikely to explode in flames like the Lithium ion ones therefore are a lot safer in caravans. Unlikely being the operative word, no guarantees.

Whenarewethere, this guy is referring to AS3001.2.2022.  That came into force 18/11/2023.  If it makes any difference.



-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 11th of June 2024 01:21:16 PM

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And I found it interesting that he states it is only relavent if your camper/caravan has a 15amp socket for the connection of 240vac.

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msg


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I took that to mean that these regs apply to all electrical installations 12v & 240v. I don't know. I'm not an electrician.

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The new regs are for NEW installations and are not retrospective.

Replacing a defunct battery would not be caught up in the new requirements.

Alan



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Nevertheless, also good if feasible to incorporate what you can of the latest regulations.



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50L custom fuel rack 6x20W 100/20mppt 4x26Ah gel 28L super insulated fridge TPMS 3 ARB compressors heatsink fan cooled 4L tank aftercooler Air/water OCD cleaning 4 stage car acoustic insulation.



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Brenda and Alan wrote:

The new regs are for NEW installations and are not retrospective.

Replacing a defunct battery would not be caught up in the new requirements.

Alan


 Yes, I thought this to be the case.



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Cheers, Richard (Dick0)

"Home is where the Den is parked, Designer Orchid Special towed by Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited"

"4x250W solar panels, Epever 80A charger and 3x135Ah Voltax Prismatic LiFePO4 Batteries".

msg


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msg wrote:

 

Whenarewethere, this guy is referring to AS3001.2.2022.  That came into force 18/11/2023.  If it makes any difference.

 


-- Edited by msg on Tuesday 11th of June 2024 01:21:16 PM


You lot will argue over nothing.

If you were to watch the clip, he said that it was effective for new builds from 18/11/22.  given twelve months to rectify and came into force 18/11/23.  So refers to builds after 18/11/22.  By now there could be quite a few.  Anyway, for me it doesn't hurt to comply with the latest standards just for our own safety.  Particularly, when the subject could be volatile and dangerous.

 

 

 

 

 



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valiant81 wrote:

Hi guys; Some sparky may be able to shred a bit of light on the subject.

What are the requirements for mounting batteries inside of your caravan. As far as i can find out, the batteries can be mounted in a non habital space, this i would read as under the bed or couch or cuboard or outside mounted to the chassie of the caravan and inclosed into a vented inclosure ?? My problem is that while i have 2 x 220 Ah AGM batteries under my bed, these i would think now haveing reach the end of life use and i have ordered one 300 Ah lifepo4 Lithium battery in the same spot as the old AGM batteries. But what about the " vented " inclosure, and if the same rules would apply to a caravan that is now over 12 years old. A 300 Ah lithium battery is a little on the large size and i'm unable to find a inclosure that would house the new battery.  


  Hi Valiant81,

 I will put my head on the chopping block once again.

Firstly, there is no legislation preventing you from undertaking your own battery change over.

There is no Federal or State legislation in the respective legislative databases that requires you to comply with AS/NZ 3001.2:2002 In undertaking the battery change over.

There is no Federal or State Authority to administer the non existent legislation and,

there are no penalties that can be imposed on you under the non existent legislation for not installing your batteries to AS/NZ 3001.2:2002.

 

In other words it is entirely your choice whether you install your new battery to the latest standard or not. 

You may wish to take a read of your insurance PDS just to be sure that there is nothing written in that but it would surprise me if there was.  Our golf club has been told that under the next policy golf carts with LiFePO4 batteries will not be able to be parked under the building.

As for safety, LiFePO4 are considered safer than AGM.

 

By the way, under the bed is considered a habitable space, that is where the monsters live. smile 



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TimTim wrote:
By the way, under the bed is considered a habitable space, that is where the monsters live. smile 

 

 



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