Help please! Rocking swivel seat in FIAT DUCATO.

MDE · Veteran Member

Help please! Rocking swivel seat in FIAT DUCATO.

daffyfrancis · Senior Member

Hi MDE,

We have had our 2nd hand Mercedes Sprinter Campervan for over 3 years and both swivel front seats work perfectly & lock firmly into place whether in driving positions or the 2 swiveled positions available to each seat. I don't know if they are original or aftermarket fitted but I would think your late model Fiat should have top quality fittings so something must be wrong with the installation & adjustments.

David

MDE · Veteran Member

Our thoughts to David yet FIAT says that's how it is! Glad you have good seats.
MDE

JCT · Veteran Member

My 2011 built Fiat Ducato ( with a 2012 Birdsville motorhome) has travelled 59k kms and my wife and I use the swivel seats all the time.

We have no rocking in them, so I disagree that the ' rocking is how they are'. That suggestion is completely wrong.

I would contact Fiat direct and complain to them. The warantee is now 5 years for new Fiats, 3 years for older ones and either well covers your 5 months old vehicle.

If you get no satisfaction I suggest contacting consumer affairs and informing them of the problem. A rocking drivers seat is dangerous as well as being bad for your back.

The issue is definitely one that should not go unchallenged.

Stay safe.

Colin

dragonfly1 · Senior Member

Our 2008 fiat sunliner has the same seats and has no movement at all when locked in position try a different fiat dealer

Dragonfly1

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Our Fiat Ducato has the swivel seats, and they do not rock at all - whether locked in place or when swivelled as visitors chairs (we call that part of the van our visitors lounge). Whoever told you that is how they are is totally wrong!!!!!

Don't let them get away with it - make them fix it!

MDE · Veteran Member

Really Appreciate all your comments. Have spoken to Fiat Purely Commerical WA Operation Manager who says he can hardly feel the rocking! Funny as it rocks just by touching it with your hand. He is following up with Fiat and we are taking it for a second opinion hopefully with RAC. Will keep you up dated.

daffyfrancis · Senior Member

Hi MDE again,

Just a thought-How close are you to a new motorhome dealership or a hire company?-Have a look at another Fiat with swivel seats yourself & compare.

David

MDE · Veteran Member

Good idea David. We are going to caravan and camping show in March so hoping someone will have some ideas then if we have not had any joy with FIAT.

-- Edited by MDE on Saturday 27th of February 2016 10:20:15 AM

laurieoz · Senior Member

My 2014 Fiat Ducato with swivel seats has no problem with any rocking
What do Avan say about the problem?

MDE · Veteran Member

As the seats are factory fit Avan has not offered any assistance advise etc just say it's FIAT problem. Avan customer service and addressing warranty issues isn't up to par. Needed a couple of repairs done as you do when you get a new van reported them in the first week of purchasing van 5 months later still waiting for the correct parts to arrive! This is our second Avan product and our last!

daffyfrancis · Senior Member

Hi again,

I presume you also tried the seats at different settings ie: up/down, forward/back to see if there is any improvement.

David

MDE · Veteran Member

Yes tried everything we could think of. FIAT service centre said can't adjust anything everything is as it should be so can't find why. Passenger seat even rocks sideways! :(

daffyfrancis · Senior Member

Hi again,

I don't know how to post links but have a look at www.vantracks.co.uk & put seat swivels in their search & select Fiat Ducato & have a read of their blurb.

Says in one part- swivel plates sandwich has a special lubricating wear plate thereby making the swivel virtually maintenance free & then in their fitting instructions say IMPORTANT:check once check twice all fittings nuts & bolts are secured. For them to highlight important seems to be an indication that this can be easily overlooked when installing.

David

-- Edited by daffyfrancis on Saturday 27th of February 2016 06:09:08 PM

MDE · Veteran Member

Wow! Thank you David have located the info and will pass onto FIAT.

vantracks.co.uk/document/Page/Seat_Swivel_Fitting_Instructions.pdf

To post a link highlight the address bar details, click select all, then Copy and then go to where you want to paste it and click and paste. If using iPad just hold finger on address bar and options will pop up for you, ie select all, copy and then hold finger were you want to paste till the word paste pops up and tap.

Kind regards
MDE

dishlicker · Senior Member

M D E You do have a problem it is not quite right seats in any vehicle should not have any movement. So there is a Fault. try contacting other dealerships and make suttle inquires and then if not happy you may need to take some more serious action. our seats swivel and lock as required maybe try the seat ajuster all the way forward then turn. cheers

Tony Bev · Guru

Hello MDE
I have a 2006 Fiat Ducato which came with one swivel seat on the passenger side. I removed the swivel part of the seat, as the seat was too high off the floor for my wife Bev.

There was nothing wrong with the swivel.
As all the other posters have said, there should be no noticable movement in a swivel chair

I have just been inside my shed to check how the swivel part works

I can confirm that:-

The swivel part is just an add on between the original seat and the original seat base, approximately 65 mm high
It is removable by removing eight x 8 mm nuts and bolts, using a 13 mm spanner. To reattaching the seat back to the base without the swivel part, use four of those bolts
The swivel part is just a threaded pipe type stepped stem
The swivel has no bearings, but works by incorporating two plastic type friction washers, tensioned by a large nut
They need a 50 mm spanner or, (in motorhome builders speak) an 18 inch shifting spanner, to tension the big nut, which they probably do not have.

Someone will have to remove the big nut with a 50 mm spanner or socket, inspect the plastic type washers, in case they have now worn down uneven, when assembling they need to put some nut locktight on the thread, and then tighten the nut until it is suitable to allow the chair to swivel without any sort of play between the nut and washers.

I would assume that it is a Fiat and not a motorhome builders problem, as it would be a normal Fiat commercial vehicle seat

I would suggest that if you take it to any Fiat agent, they would fix it immediately as a safety issue.

I do not know where you are.
If you are anywhere near Bunbury WA, I would certainly help you out, as I have some large tools

Edit after thinking my thoughts
If the rocking is similar to the chair trying to throw you through the windscreen, or through the door, then it is definately the swivel part which is damaged or loose.

If the rocking is similar to the chair trying to move you forward and sideways in an arc, it could be the runners on the floor, which allows the seat to move backwards and forwards being faulty.

The floor runners may have been misaligned since new, broken, or simply a piece of carpet or underlay is stuck into some notches of one runner. If one runner is locked in, and the other runner is still able to move, then this would definitely be moving you backwards and forwards, but in an arc.

Now knowing the friendliness of some of the regular forum members, I know that we are all waiting to find out that this problem will be solved. No one likes to see a person with a bad back suffering unnecessary, while being jarred in a loose seat. We hope to hear good news soon

-- Edited by Tony Bev on Wednesday 2nd of March 2016 02:35:54 AM

-- Edited by Tony Bev on Wednesday 2nd of March 2016 04:38:37 AM

jules47 · The Happy Helper

Yes - would be interesting to know what the problem is - and how it gets solved. We have swivel seats in a Fiat Ducato, and they swivel just fine.

MDE · Veteran Member

Thanks Tony, I was starting to wonder if it was something other than the swivel part of seat. Can I send your comments to FIAT to ask if they have considered this?
Unfortunately I am not able to follow up with it this week having an enforced holiday in hospital. But I will be like dog hunting for a bone next week! We are in Baldivis so if we have no joy with FIAT a trip to Bunbury would be great.
I will let you all know when and how we have resolved this issue.
MDE
Markus and Delphine

Tony Bev · Guru

MDE wrote:
Thanks Tony, I was starting to wonder if it was something other than the swivel part of seat. Can I send your comments to FIAT to ask if they have considered this?
Unfortunately I am not able to follow up with it this week having an enforced holiday in hospital. But I will be like dog hunting for a bone next week! We are in Baldivis so if we have no joy with FIAT a trip to Bunbury would be great.
I will let you all know when and how we have resolved this issue.
MDE
Markus and Delphine

Hi MDE

Markus and Delphine

Yes you can certainly use my comments to show to anyone. Your Fiat agent is actually somewhere close to you. They are called Purley Commercial, and whatever is wrong with the seat, will in my opinion be a Fiat problem, which will be repaired under warranty, if the vehicle is only five months old.

At your very worst scenario, you are most welcome to visit me in Bunbury, and I shall help you to the best of my ability. I would drive up to have a look, as you are not far away, but unfortunately I also have a small medical issue, and prefer not to travel at this period in time.

I actually joined this fantastic forum, to help me rev up, and get travelling again

I sincerely hope that your enforced holiday in hospital will see you come out smiling, and like myself, once again start trudging along contently.

Edit to say that I have just been back into the shed, and saw the light, (it is now daylight), and now see things differently

I correct the fact that the bolts which hold the swivel to the base and the chair actually have tamperproof torx heads, and that you also require a TORX T-40H tool to remove these bolts.

I have that tool, as I removed the swivel

-- Edited by Tony Bev on Wednesday 2nd of March 2016 02:52:09 PM

MDE · Veteran Member

Hi All

We had our swivel seats inspected today by our mechanic in Baldivis. He immediately identified the rocking in the seats by joust touching them by hand. He said it must be like being in a boat when driving.

He said FIAT was correct there was nothing that can be adjusted! It's a serious design fault and the plates of the swivel are flexing due to use of flimsy material!

He concluded his inspection by saying "It's such a design issue (swivel seats) that eventually maybe not this year or next year but one day from the flexing of those plates they will crack and eventually the seats will fall backwards or even go thru the windscreen"!

We have taken a video of the initial inspection and sent his comments to FIAT for their immediate action.

Will keep you up to date on the outcome.

Regards
Delphine and Markus

Tony Bev · Guru

MDE wrote:
Hi All

We had our swivel seats inspected today by our mechanic in Baldivis. He immediately identified the rocking in the seats by joust touching them by hand. He said it must be like being in a boat when driving.

He said FIAT was correct there was nothing that can be adjusted! It's a serious design fault and the plates of the swivel are flexing due to use of flimsy material!

He concluded his inspection by saying "It's such a design issue (swivel seats) that eventually maybe not this year or next year but one day from the flexing of those plates they will crack and eventually the seats will fall backwards or even go thru the windscreen"!

We have taken a video of the initial inspection and sent his comments to FIAT for their immediate action.

Will keep you up to date on the outcome.

Regards
Delphine and Markus

Hello MDE (Delphine and Markus)

It is good to find out that you now know exactly what the problem is.

The newer model seats must obviously be very different than the old ones.

As you have seen on this topic, we the people with older models, do not have swivel seat problems.

Good luck with your hospital holiday next week. I can recommend the Saint John of Gods in Subiaco

MDE · Veteran Member

Hi Tony

Just been searching the web for the different models of swivel seats for Ducato and it appears from the pictures that the wrong model may have been fitted... but I could be wrong as FIAT has not supplied us with the details of the make and model fitted to out Van. So its bit of a waiting game now as we have sent off mechanics report etc to FIAT for their action.

Got out of hospital yesterday, was SCGH and the staff were wonderful there.

Regards

Delphine and Markus

-- Edited by MDE on Saturday 5th of March 2016 12:01:53 AM

Tony Bev · Guru

MDE wrote:
Hi Tony
Just been searching the web for the different models of swivel seats for Ducato and it appears from the pictures that the wrong model may have been fitted... but I could be wrong as FIAT has not supplied us with the details of the make and model fitted to out Van. So its bit of a waiting game now as we have sent off mechanics report etc to FIAT for their action.
Got out of hospital yesterday, was SCGH and the staff were wonderful there.
Regards
Delphine and Markus

-- Edited by MDE on Saturday 5th of March 2016 12:01:53 AM

Hello Delphine and Markus

A bit off topic, but you must have had the same room as me. My opinion of the staff are the same as yours

dorian · Guru

If FIAT doesn't do the right thing by you, then there may be a solution in the aftermarket:

www.rainbow-conversions.co.uk/swivels.htm

Tony Bev · Guru

dorian wrote:
If FIAT doesn't do the right thing by you, then there may be a solution in the aftermarket:

www.rainbow-conversions.co.uk/swivels.htm

Hello Dorian

That was a very good find, and I am sure that it will be of interest to all future buyers of a 2015 Fiat Ducato, and I for one, thank you for taking the time to find this information

MDE I will point out that dorian has given you some ammunition

It confirms that there are two types of swivels for your model vehicle, which I have highlighted

Quote from dorian find

FASP Seat Swivel Base Plate Turntable - Fiat Ducato / Boxer / Relay 2007+ Driver Side

FASP seat swivels are designed and manufactured in two different ways in order to suit the various seats of new vehicles. The 1300 style is made with sections of welded steel which gives a very strong and heavy finish. The 1305 is a much lighter design as the thinner sheet of steel is pressed in order to give strength. The 1305 also uses ball bearings to aid a smooth swivel action. There are various level of approvals that can be gained for swivels. The swivel plate has original seat fixation points (for each model).

Unquote from durian find

I can confirm by looking at the pictures on that site that the swivel in my shed, will not fit your seat.

My swivel, (which is not on that site), has a fulcrum point central to the base, while yours is offset to the rear and drivers side. Unfortunately this means that you cannot borrow my base, while you get your own sorted.

MDE · Veteran Member

Thanks Dorian and Tony

i have attached the video (mechanical inspection) and snapshot of the different types of swivel available for pre 2007 & +2007 Which we sent to Fiat yesterday.

Our looks like the pre 2007 model though we have not had the seats off to look properly though you can clearly see the big centre hole.

Really appreciate you assistance and will pass on the info you have provided in our application to FIAT to replace these swivel fittings.

Regards

Delphine and Markus

Tony Bev · Guru

MDE wrote:
Thanks Dorian and Tony
i have attached the video (mechanical inspection) and snapshot of the different types of swivel available for pre 2007 & +2007 Which we sent to Fiat yesterday.
Our looks like the pre 2007 model though we have not had the seats off to look properly though you can clearly see the big centre hole.
Really appreciate you assistance and will pass on the info you have provided in our application to FIAT to replace these swivel fittings.
Regards
Delphine and Markus

Hello Delphine and Markus

I stand corrected and thought, (if i had half a brain, I would be dangerous), when I first glanced at my swivel in the shed, at night time, I thought that the fulcrum point was in the centre.

My swivel looks similar to the one in your last picture, except that mine has reinforcement plates welded into it.

My seat base looks more robust than the one in your first picture. It is made from bent 28 mm pipe, with a reinforcement gusset, in the lower, rear corner.

To help you out, as you have a bad back, if the problem is the swivel, and not the base (the video did not turn up) you can borrow my swivel, (if it fits), until you get your own sorted

I hope that my two pictures get through

Edit to try and attach a Win 7 page with two photos a second time but not clickable for some reason

Edit a third time to remove attachment and try to upload two pictures

Note to Cindy as I am not yet familiar with PM and such

Cindy I have received my Grey Nomads sticker, thanks for that, also as I am not always on the net, you have my permision to give MDE my home telephone number and address

MDE if/when you need to contact me then direct Cindy to this post and ask for my telephone number

2006 Fiat Ducato seat base IMG_0349.JPG 2006 Fiat Ducato Swivel you can borrow IMG_0348.JPG

-- Edited by Tony Bev on Saturday 5th of March 2016 04:38:46 PM

-- Edited by Tony Bev on Saturday 5th of March 2016 05:45:18 PM

MDE · Veteran Member

Thank you Tony for a very kind offer. Once we have heard from FIAT we will know better what action we will have to take. So until then thanks again for your kind offer.
Regards
Delphine and Markus

MDE · Veteran Member

UPDATE :)
Hi All
Just been advised that FIAT will be replacing both swivel bases under warranty!
Thank you all for your advise, offers and input much appreciated.
Regards
Delphine and Markus

-- Edited by MDE on Friday 11th of March 2016 07:07:26 PM