Will Holden Survive?

LLD · Guru

Will Holden Survive?

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

https://www.caradvice.com.au/678247/general-motors-australia-holden/

Cheers - John

LLD · Guru

John.

No exit plan? In other words they are still working on it. I'm sceptical here. I subscribe to this GoAutoNews and GoAuto Premium. This is last weeks GoAutoNews. They are both free and worthwhile reading if you are into cars. Been getting both them since first editions. I was in the motor industry when GoAutoNews was started and got an invite to subscribe.

www.goauto.com.au/goautonews.html%27s+GoAutoNews&utm_campaign=20180828_m146877540_GoAutoNews+%23+939&utm_term=MIMI_Download_Button_GIF_gif_3F1473740275

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

https://www.caradvice.com.au/383585/gm-ceo-promises-more-right-hand-drive-vehicles/

And whilst it seems the source of many "Holden" models is likely to be Opel - don't despair.

Just because Opel has been sold to Peugeot etc does not mean Opel will not still be the source (or one of the sources) of vehicles for GM Asia-Pacific ... eg Land Rover/Jaguar are owned by Tata of India but the Poms still design and make quite a bit of the vehicles in UK ... albeit with parts sourced worldwide from many manufacturers (including other vehicle manufacturers) - just as ALL vehicle manufacturers do these days. There are very few vehicles that are 'country specific' in design, components and manufacture.

'Holden" has been dead in Straya for many years ... the only thing in recent years has been their well respected 'design' work that is held in very high regard by GM and is used for vehicle design world-wide - hence it is still here ... and growing.

If there is concern about not having a 'proper Holden', then Strayans shoulda kept buying them ... brand new. The only thing that kept their sales numbers up in the past decade was fleet sales ... which people then bought 2nd hand. Hence they folded.

Poor sales, high cost of production (read wages) and little government support - it hadda happen. It would have happened back in the 1960s (and for Ford and others) if it wasn't for the tariffs giving them false life.

PS - jest for curiosity - do you own a Holden? a proper, made in Straya Holden?

[edit: PS - and it has been a VERY long time since any 'Holden" was above 95% Strayan-sourced - has been an 'international' for a long time.]

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Saturday 1st of September 2018 11:16:39 AM

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

rockylizard wrote:
PS - jest for curiosity - do you own a Holden? a proper, made in Straya Holden?

No, but I do own a "proper, made in Straya" OKA :)

Cheers,

Peter

LLD · Guru

Only Holden I ever owned was my kids had a Holden Barina which had Holden Badges on the actual body but everything else had Opel Corsa stamped on it and was made in Spain.

Although Holden Commodore was made in Australia, from the day it had the fuel filler on the RHS it was a redesigned Opel. Holden could do a lot worse than source from Opel regardless of the owners (design and production). One problem as Honda is currently finding is that the European product has the exchange rate going against them (Civic comes from UK).

Another point is that sedans are disappearing - no longer popular. The Commodore & Falcon were dinosaurs long before the plants were closed.

In the 1980s Falcon and Commodore had 15% of the market each. That is, two vehicles not manufactured anywhere else in the world had 30% of the market. The Yanks could not comprehend as the top selling vehicles is other parts of the world held only 9 & 11 %. The Yanks were also unable to comprehend that a country the size (population) of California had a motor industry of its own. The US did not have a motor industry just for California. It was national. However Australia (Ford & GM) were able to prove economies of scale weren't everything. Our industry was efficient - then. As Falcon & Commodore share dwindled, the break-even point of the vehicles manufactured dropped. Hence the eventual closures.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

They make SUVâs ., When you say Holden ? Do you mean Commodore ? Theyâll just rebadge anything like theyâve doing for years .,

LLD · Guru

All Holdens. They have been rebadging GM, Opel and Vauxhall for years as you say. However now that Opel and Vauxhall are no longer Part of GM, rebadging May not be as easy. Who makes Holdens SUVs? Holden, GM, Vauxhall or Opel? Not sure what part Isuzu plays in rebadged Holden SUVs. Holden certainly do not make any and GM are dropping RHD vehicles. Mary Barra, GM chief, changes her tune a little which sometimes says Aus-NZ will be okay then one of her offsides says something that makes one question what she said.

The link I posted and the two that rockylizard posted make interesting reading but my personal opinion is that the jury is still out at GM on Holdens future.

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Holden vehicles are now only rebadged imports that GM will try to get some advantage out of in the market place by selling them under the Holden name. Over the years our automotive manufacturing industry for various reasons was let to run down and eventually eliminated so personally I dont consider any of them to be anymore Aussie than any other - they are all just imports to me. Apparently LLD there are other RH drive vehicles currently being built in India such as the new Jeep Compass.

Cheers

BB

LLD · Guru

But nothing in India that is built by a GM joint venture and would pass ADR requirements. Ford have basic vehicles in India, designed by Australians based on such vehicles as Fiesta and Focus that are stripped down such that they would/could never sell here. One day it may happen.

India is a RHD country. Every country that was part of the British Empire is. Makes sense that Jeep make the RHD in an Indian plant for local consumption and export to RHD countries - Japan and Australia initially. GM is pulling out of India.

Similar used happen with the Ford Louisville Truck. The US designed the LHD unit, Australia designed the RHD unit. Most of the parts were made in the US. The LHD units were assembled in the US for all LHD markets and the RHD kits were shipped to Australia for assembly for all RHD markets. I think the major heavy truck players are still doing that.

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Leo ...

Whatever GM (and all the other importers) decide is what we will get ... if GM stop supplying RHD vehicles to Straya, ya will jest get something else from whoever wants to supply them.

No-one cared a decade ago about GMH, Ford or Toyota and others like Mitsibushi - buyers or government ... OH and the wage chasers - sufficiently to ensure their continuity in our manufacturing sector ... so why should anyone care now?

Cheers - John

-- Edited by rockylizard on Sunday 2nd of September 2018 09:01:28 AM

LLD · Guru

John.

Back to the topic name. Will Holden survive? Possibly not.
To the pic above. What difference does it make? Probably nothing.

LLD

rockylizard · Guru

Gday...

Leo, referring to the topic/subject heading ... Holden has NOT survived. Fact.

The only thing left here that is 'Holden' is the design/research mob - firmly annexed to GM-USA - and doing the majority of the design work for the world of GM affiliated manufacturers.

There are no Holdens any more ... only re-badged imports ... and that is all we in Straya are gonna get from GM and Ford.

I very much doubt that Straya will be left in a position that there are no more RHD vehicles imported to Straya.

These countries drive on the left ... so there are still some places for our vehicles to be imported from.

https://www.rhinocarhire.com/Car-Hire-Blog/August-2009/Which-Countries-Drive-on-the-Left,--a-Handy-Guide.aspx

"Holden" should realise that Straya is no longer holding the 'Holden" name in high regard - just check out the new 'Commodore' sales. ... drop it and let them come in with their original badges.

The dealer network will remain .. but even they are diversifying with more than just Holden badged vehicles.

Cheers - John

mixo · Senior Member

holden and ford, now irrelevant to Australian buyers. The japs and the Koreans make better value cars that the consumers want.

And in value I mean better cars and most importantly better after sales service and warranty.

Something holden and ford have got into trouble in the past few years.

mixo

Greg 1 · Guru

The Button Plan destroyed the car industry here. Australia was never going to compete with countries that pay their workers peanuts, and the removal of tariffs was the first step in the destruction. We supposedly have free trade agreements with some of these manufacturing countries, but when we import our cars to some, whilst they don't get hit with tariffs at the border, they load the registration costs effectively a hidden tariff. Thailand is a prime example where Ford were importing Territories. The final on road cost of a Territory in Tailand was astromical and so they didn't sell. Our politicians have never been very bright, but we vote for them so get what we deserve.

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

Basically they have not, shut down already . Just a sales co now . No manufacturing . Cars and fuel is imported . God help us if thereâs an issue in future !!

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
The Button Plan destroyed the car industry here. Australia was never going to compete with countries that pay their workers peanuts, and the removal of tariffs was the first step in the destruction. We supposedly have free trade agreements with some of these manufacturing countries, but when we import our cars to some, whilst they don't get hit with tariffs at the border, they load the registration costs effectively a hidden tariff. Thailand is a prime example where Ford were importing Territories. The final on road cost of a Territory in Tailand was astromical and so they didn't sell. Our politicians have never been very bright, but we vote for them so get what we deserve.

I agree Greg it's wasn't that Australia's car market was too small to make vehicles here as there are smaller countries than ours that still seem to have viable car industries eg. Sweden with a population of only 9 million people. Australia is ranked 7th in the world for motor vehicle registrations per 1000 people (740) with a fleet of over 16.5 million. As you suggested ever since the decision to remove the tariffs we have been flooded with cheaper imports manufactured in places such as 3rd world countries where the labour is a lot cheaper. What worries me is that Australia is getting to a stage where we won't have either the skills or the infrastructure left to produce anything. This could be a dangerous position to be in if things happened to turn hostile - especially with the way things are going between China, North Korea and the US. To remain competitive maybe Ford and Holden should have invested some of their money into making the type of vehicles that people wanted to buy not stick with the Commodore and Falcon until they had passed their use by date....my suspicion is that ever since the removal of tariffs they were just looking for a reason to get out of the place.

BB

Aus-Kiwi · Guru

The global financial crisis in US was the end .GM basically went bankrupt. The others just survived with handouts . If you where a Pontiac dealer in US you may have lost everything. Ok gov subsidised $500m .. But has anyone worked out the income they get back from taxation etc ? It is not all about Budget either ! Some industry has closed down that supply parts ! No longer required .

-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Sunday 2nd of September 2018 04:19:47 PM

Keith P · Senior Member

Heard this on the local radio this arvo....quite fitting I reckon.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qb3vDeNTQY

Cheers Keith

Greg 1 · Guru

You can see the same thing starting to happen to Japan where wages are now similar to here and their cars are now being made in Tailand or China where the Labour is cheap. Whilst from a manufacturers point of view it makes sense, they should be encouraging the wages to be on par with everywhere else so the standard of living is high.

LLD · Guru

US companies had procurement offices in Japan to source product. Japan became expensive. Japan and the US then moved these offices to Korea. Now these offices are in China, India & Thailand.
The sad part is that Asian countries are very inefficient in Agriculture but these countries will are happy to have our manufacturing industry closed down by exporting TV, cars etc. to us but are unwilling to accept our agriculture products that are produced efficiently. Free trade is just a term bantered around that we in Australia rarely seem to benefit from.

More on the Ford Territory stuff-up in Thailand. The free-trade agreement was only for vehicles < 3.0L. The only vehicle manufactured in Australia was the 2.7L diesel Territory. No other vehicle manufactured here qualified (Ford, Toyota or Holden). Then the Thai govt put taxes on the Territory to be sold at the same price as a BMW X5 and equivalent MB and Audi.

The Belmont Bear · Guru

The US, Canada and Mexico are currently revising the NAFTA between the 3 countries because the US believe that they are being taken advantage of. I heard today on CNN about 2 conditions the US are now putting on Mexico for importing vehicles if they want to avoid a tariff 1) vehicles must have a 65% US component 2) workers in Mexico must be paid the same as what they are in the US $16/hr (currently they only get $3/hr).

Imagine if all free trade agreements had the same reqirement as the second one I bet a lot of these multi national companies would seriously consider where they built their plants in future.

BB

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Removed.

-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Tuesday 4th of September 2018 11:58:11 AM

Desert Dweller · Guru

Will Holden survive?

It didn't.

There are quite a few imported vehicles from Asia getting around with lion badges on them though.

LLD · Guru

Desert Dweller wrote:
Will Holden survive?

It didn't.

There are quite a few imported vehicles from Asia getting around with lion badges on them though.

And they are not all from a GM subsidiary. It's called badge engineering. Any port in a storm.

Stretch60 · Senior Member

To answer the question do you own a Holden, yes 1974 HQ Statesman.

rockylizard · Guru

Stretch60 wrote:
To answer the question do you own a Holden, yes 1974 HQ Statesman.

Gday...

but did ya buy it new ?

Cheers - John

LLD · Guru

Stretch60 · Senior Member

rockylizard wrote:
Stretch60 wrote:
To answer the question do you own a Holden, yes 1974 HQ Statesman.
Gday...
but did ya buy it new ?
Cheers - John

No, but have had it for 20 years now.