Why do so many parents think their children are intelligent, when not everyone is?

Kebbin · Guru

Are our grandchildren being manipulated?

Olive Oil · Senior Member

Are our grandchildren being manipulated? No way!

Ours definitely aren't, they are high IQ individuals & independent thinkers carrying on the family tradition of our high achieving children.

Some families are lucky, we were blessed.

Santa · Guru

Olive Oil wrote:
Are our grandchildren being manipulated? No way!

Ours definitely aren't, they are high IQ individuals & independent thinkers carrying on the family tradition of our high achieving children.

Some families are lucky, we were blessed.

Had to smile at this!

In all my years I've yet to meet a family who doesn't believe their kids and grand kids are a cut above average in the intelligence stakes. biggrin

Why do so many parents think their children are intelligent, when not everyone is?

"Because children in general are intelligent! Have you ever seen young children at play? It's a serious business. If you put any healthy child in a rich and stimulating environment, they will learn an astonishing amount simply through play and exploration.

Also, childrens' brains are so plastic, it is the inputs they receive that determine whether or not they will be considered 'intelligent' as adults. Take language acquisition - nobody has to teach a child to speak, they have an innate ability, and all they need is exposure to language in order for it to develop. If they are exposed to 2 or 3 languages they will grow up bilingual or trilingual or more. If you met an adult who said that they had taught themselves three languages, we would take it as a sign of high intelligence, in children these abilities are universal, unless there is a severe learning disability of some kind.

Because young children make such rapid progress and huge cognitive leaps on an almost daily basis, watching it up close it can seem like a minor miracle. To a first-time parent particularly it is so incredible that it is easy to assume your child is uniquely intelligent - see what they have learned all by themselves! The truth is that most children have great potential, unfortunately many fall behind by the time they reach school age due to adverse circumstances.

I remember, rather embarrassingly, my husband and I seriously discussing the fact that our firstborn must be uniquely gifted, we were surprised every day by her ability to learn. It was not until she reached school that we realised that sure, she is an intelligent child with a lively mind, but she is not remarkable in that sense! Most of her peers are also intelligent children with lively minds! Human children are little sponges with limitless curiosity and in the right environment they will grow up into smart adults."

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-so-many-parents-think-their-children-are-intelligent-when-not-everyone-is

Bicyclecamper · Guru

In 1971, I joined an organisation, known as INSPECT, it was a an environmental group that was fighting for action on climate change and keeping the environment clean from pollution. I was 13 years old. Nobody manipulated me to join or to believe, no one forced me to join, and the only bullies, doing the bullying were the adults just like today. I have believed since than that this planet is going thru a dangerous manmade climate change, and I hope these kids get more support for their efforts. The reason they are being bullied by you adults, is because you are ignorant, and maybe, have little or none schooling in science research. I want them to strike to the point that eventually, adults will have to stand up and take notice. Until than nothing will be done because you all are part of the greed that is still pushing to use dirty carbon based pollution causing fuels. At least they want to save the planet, save the environment, save the wildlife, and save humanity. What do you climate deniers want to save - money, that is where greed is coming from. you are all greedy.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Sunday 29th of September 2019 10:55:29 PM

Hewy54 · Senior Member

Bicyclecamper wrote:
In 1971, I joined an organisation, known as INSPECT, it was a an environmental group that was fighting for action on climate change and keeping the environment clean from pollution. I was 13 years old. Nobody manipulated me to join or to believe, no one forced me to join, and the only bullies, doing the bullying were the adults just like today. I have believed since than that this planet is going thru a dangerous manmade climate change, and I hope these kids get more support for their efforts. The reason they are being bullied by you adults, is because you are ignorant, and maybe, have little or none schooling in science research. I want them to strike to the point that eventually, adults will have to stand up and take notice. Until than nothing will be done because you all are part of the greed that is still pushing to use dirty carbon based pollution causing fuels. At least they want to save the planet, save the environment, save the wildlife, and save humanity. What do you climate deniers want to save - money, that is where greed is coming from. you are all greedy.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Sunday 29th of September 2019 10:55:29 PM

Agree entirely.

So fed up with people (largely older males) who are in denial as to the damage we are causing to our planet.

I remember being a younger concerned individual back in the early '70s when ozone depletion was a concern. Flurocarbons were banned and the result was a regeneration of the ozone layer.

Our grandchildren are NOT being manipulated, they are simply concerned about the state of the world we are leaving them.

Rob Driver · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:
In 1971, I joined an organisation, known as INSPECT, it was a an environmental group that was fighting for action on climate change and keeping the environment clean from pollution. I was 13 years old. Nobody manipulated me to join or to believe, no one forced me to join, and the only bullies, doing the bullying were the adults just like today. I have believed since than that this planet is going thru a dangerous manmade climate change, and I hope these kids get more support for their efforts. The reason they are being bullied by you adults, is because you are ignorant, and maybe, have little or none schooling in science research. I want them to strike to the point that eventually, adults will have to stand up and take notice. Until than nothing will be done because you all are part of the greed that is still pushing to use dirty carbon based pollution causing fuels. At least they want to save the planet, save the environment, save the wildlife, and save humanity. What do you climate deniers want to save - money, that is where greed is coming from. you are all greedy.

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Sunday 29th of September 2019 10:55:29 PM

I read with interest your post above.

I would like to ask who, is the YOU, that you refer to in your reply.

My original post was to show how figures could be and are being, manipulated, to reflect the view of certain groups. Any attack on the opposing view is not what this topic is about. It is more to indicate that figures and information being supplied to the young and vulnerable could be manipulated to support a cause.

If you have any example of the climate figures and statistics being manipulated in the other direction then post the information up on here.

In a comment above another member indicated that the information in the first link was, in his words, a sandwich short but has not explained to any of us, any facts to support his quote.

The actual word, manipulated, is probably fairly powerful and I do understand that some may become quite passionate with its use.

On news broadcasts we see on almost a daily basis school aged children protesting to support the cause. My view is that school teachers encouraging this behaviour are just as bad or even worse than the ones who deny climate change.

A school teachers job should be basically to teach the three Rs to our children and leave the moral, social and political issues to parents and legal guardians.

I am not denying for one minute that climate change may be real, my post was to raise awareness that some figures may be manipulated and more to the point that these false figure may be the basis by which some may influence our children while they are at a very impressionable age.

bgt · Guru

A commonly used 'fact' is that 98% of climate sceintists believe in global warming. Yet no one has ever defined 'climate scientist' or published the list containing the 98%. Unless we challenge ALL the facts then it's difficult for anyone to believe anything anyone says. Yet it seems that unless you are a global warming believer then you aren't allowed an opinion. Wisdom comes with age and life's experiences. I question how much wisdom and experience the striking children have.

Grandad5 · Senior Member

bentaxlebabe wrote:
My view is that school teachers encouraging this behaviour are just as bad or even worse than the ones who deny climate change.
A school teachers job should be basically to teach the three Rs to our children and leave the moral, social and political issues to parents and legal guardians.

(Not addressed specifically to you bentaxbabe but rather to the general view of many who think kids don't think for themselves.)

This is a sentiment we hear all too often. It so happens that my daughter is a high school teacher at an outer Melbourne high school. One of her extra duties is as the co-ordinator of the 'Young Leaders' program. Or what our generation used to call the Student Council or Student Representitive.

I asked if her school participated in any climate change walkouts.
Answer: Yes. On two occasions.

Who instigated the proposal and planning? Students or teachers.
Answer: Teachers have no input into new proposals for the Young Leaders. The topic was raised by the students themselves and all planning done by them.

What help was provided by teaching staff to organise things?
Answer: Teachers helping the students in any Young Leader project is counter to the very foundation of what the program is trying to achieve. She may point the students to where they may find answers to their questions or list some issues they may have to address but how they address them is entirely up to the students.
It was her responsibility to point out that any student attending such an event would have an 'Unapproved absence' on their record.

What percentage of students took part?
Answer: Approximately 20 to 30%

Where is the manipulation by teachers so many people like to claim exists.

Jim

bgt · Guru

Grandad5 that's just one perspective. My wife is a teacher. My daughter is a teacher in a public high school. Her husband is a teacher in a private high school. The schools are located within 1k of each other. Daughter and her husband were both 'required' to ask their students to do a project on the 'Affects of Global Warming'. Arguing against global warming wasn't an option in either school. So if the students have an alternative view then they are not allowed to express it. Does that constitute bias?

Everyone needs to be very very careful about using specific examples to support their side of the debate.

-- Edited by bgt on Monday 30th of September 2019 10:17:08 AM

blaze · Guru

isn't it good us old farts wont be about in a few years and the youth of today may make a better world to live in for future generations. we are the way of the dinosaur.
cheers
blaze
A support of youth

Grandad5 · Senior Member

bgt. That sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to ask students to write an assignment on. Of course there is no option to write an assignment of the opposite view because quite frankly, there IS no opposite view on this issue. All credible science points to the global warming being correct. There is some discussion on time frames but not on the overall facts of the matter.

My reference is aimed at people who believe our grandkids are being manipulated to take action. Nobody manipulated me, and I believe in what the kids are trying to do.

People can post as many links as they like so-called 'proving' there is no issue. It doesn't change the science.

Here's a link that proves the earth is flat.
https://wiki.tfes.org/A_hundred_proofs_the_Earth_is_not_a_globe

And here's a link that proves evolution is wrong
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/mar/19/evolution-darwin-natural-selection-genes-wrong

At the end of the day, a few have referred to us all as 'old farts'. And there's some truth to that. None of us will be here when the worst effects are felt. Or, are supposed to be felt if you choose not to believe in climate change.

There are only two options.

Everything the science points to is correct, or, it isn't.

If we go with trying to control the problem and its all wrong, our grandkids will end up in a world with low cost renewable energy, more trees and a generally cleaner world.
If we go with doing nothing, and we're wrong, the world may well be inhabitable.

I have no desire to debate this issue. I just want to protect our kids.

Regards
Jim

Hewy54 · Senior Member

Hey Grandad
Well said.
Main problem we seem to have is the ostrich syndrome.

Cupie · Guru

Hewy54 wrote:
Hey Grandad
Well said.
Main problem we seem to have is the ostrich syndrome.

X2

Rob Driver · Guru

Well, the question I asked in the title has only been addressed by a few as it is really easier just to go to the debate rather than provide a view.
I did not post this to start a debate on global warming but rather wanting to gain others thoughts on should these actions be directed at our children from school.
I dont think that this topic will improve with input as time goes on so I would like to put my actual views forward.

There's a lot I can't quite comprehend as I get older, but the reason surrounding recent protests has me baffled.
We should all be concerned of the direction that some are steering the future generation with regard to climate change / global warming as opposed to simple variations in weather.

We shouldn't be tearing each other apart trying to place blame.
We should be happy about the fact that our kids are finally passionate about something that's not on an IPad!!

If we look at it realistically, our kids didn't really have a choice at the life we've made them dependant on - as a mother I fundraised right along side everyone else to put air conditioning in my childrens classrooms and school buses - it was us, parents and grandparents.

Regardless of an individual's opinion about the temperature and climate change issues, the planet is a mess.

What we cannot ignore are the oceans full of rubbish, run off from farm chemicals, packaging, wildlife corridors shrinking, the rapidly rising list of endangered animals, the piles and piles of waste that pollute our planet.
We should not be ignoring these facts and be blaming climate, when what we all see and do every single day is the real problem.
No amount of shifting blame will fix the it. We all played a part in getting here. Something's got to give, and it eventually it will.

Our children are passionate with regard to the steady degradation of our planet but I feel that at many times their efforts are being misdirected as to the real problem.
I would rather see our childrens efforts to help be directed at fixing the problems above.
Maybe we should be looking at ourselves, setting an example and asking how we can actually fix the problem by changing the simple things that we are all doing rather than encouraging future generations into what may be a perceived falsehood of the situation which in turn may provide support in the form of votes for political partys that may
have a disturbing agenda.

As a nation we are throwing money at many projects that, at least to me, are not as important as the condition of our planet.
Contributing to cleaning up the oceans, returning to sustainable farming practices in all countries, change packaging methods by law so manufacturers have to comply to sell to us are just some areas that need to be addressed urgently.
I think most of us would rather see childrens efforts supporting this.

Another real problem is overpopulation, I have no idea how we may fix that. World wide it is a major problem.
I could go on and on but I would much rather teachers and other influential adults encourage our children to change these areas rather than march on climate change issues without any real facts to support their actions.

hako · Guru

What's the old saying?....you make your bed, you lie in it.

Good Luck.

Grandad5 · Senior Member

bentaxlebabe wrote:

We should all be concerned of the direction that some are steering the future generation with regard to climate change / global warming as opposed to simple variations in weather.

This is one point in which I must disagree. Nobody is 'steering' the kids in any given direction. Any more than anyone 'steered' myself and our generation to demonstrate against the Vietnam war.

Regardless of an individual's opinion about the temperature and climate change issues, the planet is a mess.

What we cannot ignore are the oceans full of rubbish, run off from farm chemicals, packaging, wildlife corridors shrinking, the rapidly rising list of endangered animals, the piles and piles of waste that pollute our planet.
We should not be ignoring these facts and be blaming climate, when what we all see and do every single day is the real problem.

All of the problems you describe are very real. Not just the ones quoted above but all that you wrote of.
What seems to be the difference is that our kids don't see those issues and climate change as being separate. They're all part of one big overall problem. One might refer to it as sustainability.

It seems (generally) that most of our generation see the method of fighting climate change as just reducing Co2 by replacing fossil fuels with alternative energy sources. Do that, and problem solved. It ain't that easy. Maybe plant some trees.

I was talking to two of my grandkids very recently and they mentioned the banning of plastic shopping bags. They both felt it was just an effort by the big shopping chains to delude people into thinking they cared about the environment. They then went on to talk about all the single use plastic being used throughout the store. And NOT only because of the recycling issue, but the effects of producing all that plastic on dwindling oil reserves and the pollution in producing it that leads to Co2 buildup that causes CLIMATE CHANGE. .

Last year I spoke to a high school team of 6 kids at a 'Future Problem Solver' convention in Melbourne. Their project was how to reverse global warming by combatting ALL of the issues you describe as well as the generation of clean energy. The thrust of their argument was combatting global issues at a community level.

So, I personally don't believe what you've described and global warming as two separate issues. It's all about fighting for a sustainable future. And I was converted to that view, by the kids of today.

And I personally have great confidence in the next generation. (Some are drop kicks of course. But then, some of our generation ain't none too bright either)

Jim

Cupie · Guru

Well said Jim

bgt · Guru

Grandad5 there is an alternative view and the science supports it. Folks just choose to ignore any argument that doesn't suite their view! Selective vision! When someone puts up a different opinion we all owe it to them to listen. However it seems that certain folks find that personal attacks, yelling and denial is all they are interested in.

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Hi Angie bentaxlebabe,

Congratulations on such an accurate well thought out and informative post.
I had already replied yes to your original question and I find your views to be mainstream down the middle rather than one side or the other.
I also personally find your views to be a more accurate representation of the true facts than what is generally being forced upon us by certain groups in the media.

We may all observe dry rivers with regional towns who rely on this water being now forced to cart water in trucks to survive.
OK and as historic observations are noted particularly in your first video link rainfall figures do vary from decade to decade. Some decades enjoy high rainfalls, some suffer low rainfalls and then we consider some decades to be an average.
The low river levels occur every time we have extended periods of low rainfall but the quantity and quality of water in these rivers has never been under such pressure as it is today because huge land holders have been given the access to pump water for the growing of crops which should never have been grown in these regions of Australia in the first place. Cotton is one that comes to mind.

When I went to school we were taught about the MIA and how great it was that we could grow a variety of crops for our increasing population.
This water was drawn from the Murrumbidgee and the scheme was designed to be sustainable.

In those days when you travelled across the Hay Plains the land was used for sheep and relied solely on water from rain and possibly a few bores.
Today when you drive across the same area most of the sheep have gone and there are huge expanses of land under irrigation.
Any wonder the river is almost dry.

The same scenario applies to the Darling River. The locals claim that the river runs backwards when a certain station starts their pumps.

Is this caused by climate change?.......No it is caused by greed and mismanagement.
Very few farming practices are sustainable when by their very nature they have to pump water from a resource to make it work.

The Barrier Reef is dying because of chemical and fertiliser run off as is the sea grasses that 50 years ago grew a short distant from our shores. These sea grasses have gone to leave us with large expanses of sand of which is no longer stable and is now easily affected by tides and currents.

Is this caused by climate change?........No it is caused by mismanagement and poor farming and building practices.

We need farms to supply us with lifes necessities and these farms should be very carefully managed, not have a gung ho attitude of production at any cost.

Have sea levels risen? Have ice caps melted?
I heard on a current affairs program the other day where a school child being interviewed stated that Polar Bears were dying in the ANTARCTIC.
Maybe the teacher that was encouraging that child to speak out and blame climate change for the death of these majestic animals should have actually explained that there are no Polar Bears in the Antarctic.
We have had ice melting and reforming over millions of years on earth and this will continue to happen. A couple of Ice Ages comes to mind.

We need to consider all the trees that have been cut down if only in our country in the last century to make way for new subdivisions and even towns and complete suburbs let alone farming practices.

Lets encourage children to replant these trees rather than disrupt traffic and glue themselves to public infrastructure.

Has the sea level really risen. Not that anyone can measure.
A member of my family bought a house on a waterway in the year 1998.
It was reported soon after that in a local paper that by the year 2018 the properties along that waterway would be all under water.
Well that hasnt happened but that little gem of misinformation was quoted from a climate scientist.
Measurements at Fort Denison have not shown any significant increase over several decades.
Erosion along our seafront homes in most instance is because of the disturbance of the natural landscape and really just building to close to the high water mark.
Simple really, move the houses away from the sensitive areas and revegetate to maintain natures way of control.
Once again, nothing to do with any climate.

Any group may ask or demand that governments ban fossil fuel power generation but no government is going to do that. Instead some have suggested that there should be a monetary figure paid in the form of a carbon offset to continue using these power generation methods.
The word TAX comes to my mind.
If these generating companies pay an offset figure then guess where that amount will be passed on to recover the money.......you got it......the consumer......us and our children.

I think eventually that the use of fossil fuels will be phased out over time but it will happen when all the countries of the world have access to alternative reliable power generation sources.
It wont happen in 11 years as demanded by that poor girl, Greta, who is obviously being manipulated for hidden agendas.
Dare anyone mention nuclear power generation in this country for fear of an uprising of mammoth proportions.
Lets just extract uranium from our mines and sell it to overseas countries.....do it on the quiet so as not to encourage the wrath of the coal protesters and Greenies.

Regardless of how some choose to explain away the virtues of having children march and protest, or insist that all the items that Angie mentioned are somehow linked to climate change I personally think that on the whole, these children are being manipulated and I certainly do not agree with this practice.
I am with you Angie bentaxlebabe when you say that our children should be encouraged to act on the true problems which face us rather than being mislead as to the cause.

I think that your original video clip actually hit a nerve as no one has supplied any facts counteracting the information.

bgt · Guru

Iva you are making too much sense. Add to the 'strange' world we are living in is the obsession with single use plastics. Sure a plastic straw or shopping bag is not wanted in our environment. But ask yourself when was the last time you observed a plastic straw 'escape' from a bottle. When was the last time you observed a plastic bag jump out of a rubbish bin and run away? The problem isn't the plastic. The problem is people. The same with all our environmental problems. Peoples habits and demands need to be addressed. Demand for 24/7 heating and air conditioning has grown at a faster rate than our ability or willingness to address 'polution'. Simply changing to a 'green' world won't address the underlying problems. If we want to 'manipulate' our children then teach them to be more responsible with their expectations and for them to first take care of their own demands on the environment around them. Come to think of it how about a few adults also looking at there own demands.

Plain Truth · Guru

The Sun controls the weather,we have had hot cycles before.To bad people are too lazy to go and check.

They rather believe dubious so called climate change scientists.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/miranda-devine/aussies-have-weathered-natures-extremes-before/news-story/af5b0bb9a32e2300dd93865815da9f60

Hewy54 · Senior Member

Plain Truth wrote:
The Sun controls the weather,we have had hot cycles before.To bad people are too lazy to go and check.
They rather believe dubious so called climate change scientists.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/miranda-devine/aussies-have-weathered-natures-extremes-before/news-story/af5b0bb9a32e2300dd93865815da9f60

If you stick your head in the sand for long enough you will not even notice any climate change.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Plain Truth wrote:
The Sun controls the weather,we have had hot cycles before.To bad people are too lazy to go and check.

Actually the effect of the sun on the atmosphere controls the weather. Stuff the atmosphere and you stuff the weather with the same sun.

For a different one, try the moon or Mars.

Cheers,

Peter

Cupie · Guru

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
The Sun controls the weather,we have had hot cycles before.To bad people are too lazy to go and check.

Actually the effect of the sun on the atmosphere controls the weather. Stuff the atmosphere and you stuff the weather with the same sun.
For a different one, try the moon or Mars.
Cheers,
Peter

Sounds about right

Iva Biggen · Senior Member

Unfortunately this has gone completely off the OPs subject but as she did state her view I guess it is quite OK.

So, we have had comments of

The subject should not be allowed.
The comments in the video are A Sandwich Short
Some of us apparently have heads in the sand.

Strangely not one of these comments has been substantiated by any fact so I offer this information in the link above in the hope that some may see that this approach to climate change or global warming is at the best extremely doubtful.

40 years of incorrect and false predictions are very difficult to debate apart from the attack of discrediting anyone with an opposing view

Enjoy the information

youtu.be/LeGI-Ea2Nj4

-- Edited by Iva Biggen on Saturday 5th of October 2019 08:53:36 AM

Plain Truth · Guru

Hewy54 wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
The Sun controls the weather,we have had hot cycles before.To bad people are too lazy to go and check.
They rather believe dubious so called climate change scientists.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/blogs/miranda-devine/aussies-have-weathered-natures-extremes-before/news-story/af5b0bb9a32e2300dd93865815da9f60
If you stick your head in the sand for long enough you will not even notice any climate change.

Why don't you comment on the report,instead of making derogatory remarks.Anyone has a different view,out comes snide remarks.

Plain Truth · Guru

Maybe you should look at what these climate scientists say. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVBH-HY5Ow

Rob Driver · Guru

Hi Ivan Biggs,

Your detailed post and input does support the statement that some of our school children may be being manipulated.
You certainly have stated it as it is rather than what our children are being lead to believe via the false figures created by not including all of the statistics.

Hi Plain Truth,
Your video linked pretty much covers it how it really is.

I just wonder what will be the new terminology that extremists will be using when the next 12 year period of doom expires.

I found this pic which shows yet another view on the comments of some children

Greg 1 · Guru

Unfortunately the pseudo greenies still don't want to live like the picture on the right and want to live at a standard like the picture on the left. Can't say that I blame them. But this is the terrible dilemma faced by world leaders is how to tackle pollution and still maintain a reasonable level of lifestyle and continue economically. It's all very well for young Greta to accuse them of thinking of economics at the expense of climate change, but if they turned the lights out tomorrow, how would she feel about living like the picture on the right. There has to be a balance struck somewhere.

dogbox · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:

Unfortunately the pseudo greenies still don't want to live like the picture on the right and want to live at a standard like the picture on the left. Can't say that I blame them. But this is the terrible dilemma faced by world leaders is how to tackle pollution and still maintain a reasonable level of lifestyle and continue economically. It's all very well for young Greta to accuse them of thinking of economics at the expense of climate change, but if they turned the lights out tomorrow, how would she feel about living like the picture on the right.
There has to be a balance struck somewhere.

x2 somewhere there will have to be a balance unless we want to go back to living in caves

I wonder who organised the trip across the atlantic for greta to attend the conference?