Clive Palmer says hydroxychloroquine contributed to Australia's low COVID-19 death rate. Is he correct?

Tony Bev · Guru

RE: Corona virus where to now.

Santa · Guru

Being a communist country they (Vietnam) tend to be a little frugal with the truth.

With borders to China, Laos, Cambodia and Laos, I would be more than a little surprised if they have "kept it out"

They claim no deaths, I very much doubt that.

-- Edited by Santa on Wednesday 20th of May 2020 06:53:44 PM

Kaid · Guru

Hard as it is , I am happy to stay in Lockdown as long as our Premier in Qld wants to.
Having been to the shops a few times , People are not observing Social distancing. So, I do what I need to do then get home.
Having two Daughters who work in the Medical Field . They assure me there is no over reacting.
These measures were put in place so that our Hospitals were not overwhelmed.

dogbox · Guru

Santa wrote:

Being a communist country they (Vietnam) tend to be a little frugal with the truth.
With borders to China, Laos, Cambodia and Laos, I would be more than a little surprised if they have "kept it out"
They claim no deaths, I very much doubt that.

-- Edited by Santa on Wednesday 20th of May 2020 06:53:44 PM

apparently one of the things that happened there was if you bought cold/flu medicine you had to be tested for corona an they were doing that in January an being a communist country the people kind of do as they are told . so they were on it from the beginning ( if you believe what they tell you )

Gundog · Guru

"Everyone needs to keep everything in perspective. Yes there have been 100 sad deaths. Yes we need to be very careful with any outbreaks. But at what cost? It's so easy for us retired folks to say we want the lockdown to continue. But the lockdown is destroying lives. Financial and health wise. Folks are going bankrupt. Unemployment is having a huge mental told on the country. Suicides will, according to recent reports, go up by 400%. So at what point do we go back to 'normal'? 0 infections? 20 infections? 50 or 100? Who gets to decide what is acceptable? A vaccine may be a year or two away. So do we stay in lockdown until then? Or do we learn to live with covid-19? At some point we have to make a decision and make the calculated risk of virus v getting back to life. So who here wants to make that decision?" An excellent written response. There is a 99.97% chance of you catching the virus, where is most likely place you could catch Covid19 from health or allied worker, and why is this so, in many instances that person goes to work, is tested scanned and downs PPE, at the end of the shift, PPE is disposed of, the worker goes home this is here the retransmission could commence. Has every hospital, nursing home, aged care facility created a dirty in to clean in and a dirty out to clean out. That means when entering the facility th worker undresses leaving everything in the change room, proceeds to another room has a shower, proceeds to th room where the worker dresses, the reverse applies when the leave. Most recent transission have come from the health industry by health workers. Get grip let's get back to normality now, but put the emphasis on those who have tested positive and their care givers be it at home or a facility, the bloody health experts should have been doing this earlier, stop looking outside Australia they don't have answer and neither do our experts because they have no idea of contamination control.

Wanda · Guru

I am so glad the people running our country don't think like you, have you thought of relocating to the U S of A
Ian

outlaw40 · Guru

Time for a dose of hydroxychloroquine washed down with a cup of dettol ...........

Cupie · Guru

This video from The Donald's Chief Advisor will clear up any misunderstanding on virus related issues, unless it doesn't in which case it won't or may not, unless it does. I think.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wVs5AyjzwRM&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR1g4PobTX0BCF1UTEN6nMcHstZLRSrBUnxh2zaooa-SCPyPfDWziwLZ8mQ

Santa · Guru

Australians have their own home grown lunatic.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05-21/has-hydroxychloroquine-helped-australia-flatten-the-death-curve/12256996

Clive Palmer says hydroxychloroquine contributed to Australia's low COVID-19 death rate. Is he correct?

Seems not, Baseless. biggrin

Together Palmer and Trump could rule the world. biggrin

TheHeaths · Guru

20/20 hindsight!

I wonder what would have been the position of people here had things been done differently, and we had a situation similar to the US, many European countries, and now seemingly Brazil.

I suspect that the Federal and State Governments would have been berated for a poor response, (sort of like the bushfires only a month of two before), and the questions would have been "who decided so many should die?", and "why didn't you do something to save the vulnerable?"

We have what we have, most have survived to date, and things are slowly being opened to try and keep everyone safe.

I would be interested to see who are the first to comment if it should go pear shape and the virus returns, especially if they are the ones affected.

One interesting aspect that I have noted is how the seemingly indestructible bond between Premiers of the past 4 - 6 weeks seems to be cracking now that they look to make political mileage by getting their economies going again. Soon be back to normal in the political sphere I expect!

Whenarewethere · Guru

outlaw40 wrote:
Time for a dose of hydroxychloroquine washed down with a cup of dettol ...........

While packed to the rafters in church & drinking from the same cup.

bgt · Guru

Given that a vaccine is a year or two away, if ever, when should we go back to 'normal' ? What is an 'acceptable' number of infections? I read so many folks saying they are happy with the lockdown being kept in place. Ok I ask then for how long will they be happy? And given that covid-19 could well be with us for many many years when do the state's open up? It's all to easy to sit at a keyboard and voice an opinion. But what would you do? What is your solution? How do you propose balancing the health issues with the economical issues? I challenge everyone to come up with a solution that will beat covid-19 and at the same time save jobs and our economic future.

Whenarewethere · Guru

It's a Darwinian Process. Those who grind their coffee will live longer!

dogbox · Guru

bgt wrote:

Given that a vaccine is a year or two away, if ever, when should we go back to 'normal' ? What is an 'acceptable' number of infections? I read so many folks saying they are happy with the lockdown being kept in place. Ok I ask then for how long will they be happy? And given that covid-19 could well be with us for many many years when do the state's open up?
It's all to easy to sit at a keyboard and voice an opinion. But what would you do? What is your solution? How do you propose balancing the health issues with the economical issues? I challenge everyone to come up with a solution that will beat covid-19 and at the same time save jobs and our economic future.

we are opening up and reducing restrictions maybe not as fast as some would like it . people are demanding a time frame but how can they give a time frame when it is not known how it is going to play out.
when the result are in for the last ease up and things look good (new infection are not over stressing the hospitals ) ease up on some more . to give definite dates at this point is a bit difficult to fast, and we go back to locked down. you only have to go to the shopping centers to see how people don't understand social distancing.
the winter snow season is pushing for the go button to be pushed wanting a date NOW ! 1/06/2020 a possibility but how can they get a green light now who, knows what it will be like in 5 weeks, could be a a lot of things good to go by then or we could be closed down again if people don't follow the guidelines now

bgt · Guru

dogbox you haven't given a solution. The hospitals now have 7000 icu bed with only a handful of covid-19 patients in them. New infections at this present time aren't over stressing the hospitals. No-one of knows what it will be like in 5 weeks. In 5 weeks do we say another 5 weeks? Australians want some one to stand up and give us targets so that we can work towards those targets. Not wishy washy 'let's wait and see' statements.

the rocket · Guru

Even if this virus was not around i would still be in lockdown. My leg is out of plaster but i cannot walk on it. Waiting for physio. Appt. now. For the near future strop n i are going nowhere. I agree with qld premier all the way about the borders but it would be nice for people who live in qld to have a holiday in qld. Stay safe everyone.

TheHeaths · Guru

bgt wrote:
Given that a vaccine is a year or two away, if ever, when should we go back to 'normal' ? What is an 'acceptable' number of infections? I read so many folks saying they are happy with the lockdown being kept in place. Ok I ask then for how long will they be happy? And given that covid-19 could well be with us for many many years when do the state's open up? It's all to easy to sit at a keyboard and voice an opinion. But what would you do? What is your solution? How do you propose balancing the health issues with the economical issues? I challenge everyone to come up with a solution that will beat covid-19 and at the same time save jobs and our economic future.

Perhaps as a lead off Bruce, you could give your answers to the questions you raise? Its easy to set a challenge, much harder to give an answer I suspect.

From my perspective, it would appear that many here are happy with the way the various politicians are moving. I know that I am, as I don't have any better ideas, and they do appear to be making decisions based on some degree of expert opinion.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Thursday 21st of May 2020 05:38:18 PM

dogbox · Guru

bgt wrote:

dogbox you haven't given a solution. The hospitals now have 7000 icu bed with only a handful of covid-19 patients in them. New infections at this present time aren't over stressing the hospitals. No-one of knows what it will be like in 5 weeks. In 5 weeks do we say another 5 weeks? Australians want some one to stand up and give us targets so that we can work towards those targets. Not wishy washy 'let's wait and see' statements.

i mentioned 5 weeks because some sectors where demanding fixed dates as to the opening up time frames the example i was refering to was the snow season opening on the 1/07/2020. my thoughts would be first lot of restrictions schools go back ,if all good hospitals coping 2-3 weeks later the next lot of restriction lifted, if still okay the next level of restrictions, keep lifting restrictions progressively until most people are back doing what they want. when you lift restrictions it may take 2 weeks to see the effect

all the kids going back to school mingling then jumping on over crowded trains /buses to get to and from school mixing with workers going to and from work may over whelm the hospitals in 2-4 weeks time, if not move to the next stage, unfortunately everyone thinks their section should be priority listed
when this started the hospitals were not in a position to cope they would appear to be ready now to handle it a lot better now. if you look at some other countries it would not take long to fill 7000 icu beds if it runs wild.
thank goodness it is a virus and not a foreign army. mr T will be standing for re-election shortly he might start a war to boost his chances of re-election
stay safe

Izabarack · Guru

bgt wrote:
The hospitals now have 7000 icu bed with only a handful of covid-19 patients in them. Australians want some one to stand up and give us targets so that we can work towards those targets. Not wishy washy 'let's wait and see' statements.

Try 2378 ICU beds in Australia. Easy to fact check that number with a simple Google search.

Australians, the smart ones, want a Try a little bit first, and if the Second Wave dones not come or what does come is manageable, decide on what comes next. Making any kind of rigid commitment to dates is just plain silly given the dynamic nature of the situation.

Iza

bgt · Guru

Folks I don't have an answer. What I'm trying to say is that too many people just make comments without thinking things through. Looking at everything from there own circumstances. The purpose of my post was to provoke more than just a simplistic answer without consideration of the consequences.

Izabarack why are all the top folks quoting the 7000 figure then? Figures on the web are pre virus figures!!

OK so what would I do? I would set out a timetable for each of the steps to reopen everything. Yes give those steps dates subject to current infection numbers. That way everyone, including businesses, have something to aim and plan for. With one big BUT. But on the strict understanding that IF numbers start to creep up past a reasonable figure then the restrictions are put back on asap. Australians will go along with targets. What is upsetting many is the uncertainty.
There has never been a vaccine for covid viruses. So given that there will never be one for covid-19 then we have to learn to live with it.
Social distancing, hand washing etc etc should become a part of our new normal life.

Remember everyone has an opinion. We need to respect those opinions even if we disagree with them.

DMaxer · Guru

The problem as I see it bgt is that if the infections start to creep up then it is too late to implement lockdowns. That is what happened in the USA.

I think that what we have been doing is working and although it has a severe impact on some members of the community, it just has to be done.

I think that the uncertainty and fear about the economy being plastered all over the news is not helping. With the stimulus being handed out by the Government it is costing us about 10 per cent of GDP over the next six months. During the war years, Government was spending 125 per cent of GDP over six years.

Australia is a very wealthy country and despite all the sensationalism in the media, will come out of this better than just about every other country on Earth.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Friday 22nd of May 2020 08:38:05 AM

Whenarewethere · Guru

We overlook a busy foreshore walkway for 3 decades. It's very busy, joggers, runners, people stopping & chatting. The only thing that changed over the last few months is that it got far busier during the lockdown. Never seen this walkway so consistently busy.

The lack of social distancing was laughable.

Gundog · Guru

I see the problem about returning to normality, is people have been lead to believe the virus is just around the next corner about to jump out and infect them. Reality is in the current situation your chance of getting it is less than 0.001% you are more likely to develop cancer. Now we have state premiers acting under miss information, where even various state and federal chief health offices are in conflict about the need for border closures and their effectiveness. The longer the society is excluded from normality the more damage to economy especially when the Government handouts expire, and then we will see bankruptcies in business and foreclosures on a lot of family homes, the values of your property will decrease but councils won't reduce your rates, more likely they will increase to offset the losses from the lockdown period. City and Urban communities will recover better than rural and out back ones.

mixo · Senior Member

Whenarewethere wrote:
We overlook a busy foreshore walkway for 3 decades. It's very busy, joggers, runners, people stopping & chatting. The only thing that changed over the last few months is that it got far busier during the lockdown. Never seen this walkway so consistently busy.
The lack of social distancing was laughable.

Yes we saw this last weekend at St.kilda/Port Melbourne. People everywhere, heard one complain about social distancing(so why not stay home then?), but people doing the right thing.

I didn't feel uncomfortable, kids loved getting out of the house and so did the adults.

And then guess what, I'm still here and corona free!

Get out there and live people, we are not America, or Singapore or some third world country. Australia and Australians have done a super job, I'm proud of this country at the moment.

mixo

dogbox · Guru

Gundog wrote:

I see the problem about returning to normality, is people have been lead to believe the virus is just around the next corner about to jump out and infect them. Reality is in the current situation your chance of getting it is less than 0.001% you are more likely to develop cancer.
Now we have state premiers acting under miss information, where even various state and federal chief health offices are in conflict about the need for border closures and their effectiveness. The longer the society is excluded from normality the more damage to economy especially when the Government handouts expire, and then we will see bankruptcies in business and foreclosures on a lot of family homes, the values of your property will decrease but councils won't reduce your rates, more likely they will increase to offset the losses from the lockdown period.
City and Urban communities will recover better than rural and out back ones.

why do you think our infection rates are so low?

why do you think or death rate is low?

do we need to increase our infection rate ?

outlaw40 · Guru

Just saw on media Sweden handled there response differently ie business as usual and have just recorded the highest death rate per capita in the world. sorta supports lockdown dont it !

https://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/news/swedens-death-toll-skyrockets/4020977/

-- Edited by outlaw40 on Friday 22nd of May 2020 10:44:20 AM

Mike Harding · Guru

When the investment funds, the pension funds and the like are falling off the perch because the overall world economy has taken a dive I wonder what the posters to this forum will have to say then? It'll be a trickle down event people so check your investments today because they may not be there next year....

bgt: thank you for your considered posts and concerns for matters and people outside the immediate focal area of this forum... 'cause there are a few who are doing it tough even if many of our posters are not... yet....

Gundog · Guru

Dogbox said why do you think our infection rates are so low? why do you think or death rate is low? do we need to increase our infection rate ? Peak infection was caused by cruise ships and airlines passengers, who were not quarantined nor tested for Covid19. Post peak was a result of lack containment, and health and allied workers without proper testing, and those who continued to with flu like symptoms, 20 deaths at the Penrith aged care facility, and where health workers transmitted it to family like the Melb meat worker who's partner was a heath worker. Now look at the where those who passed away and where they acquired the virus. When the infection rate was less than 0.003% at it's peak the closers were an unnecessary knee jerk reaction . Note during this whole event how many essential workers at supermarkets contracted the virus? An increased infection rate is not killer everyone is lead to believe, if the hospital, aged care, nursing homes and medical facilities had proper virus containment and prevention. I'm in my 70's and I would rather see our nation back at work but our external boarders remain secure, than let tinpot premiers act like spoilt children.

Whenarewethere · Guru

mixo wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
We overlook a busy foreshore walkway for 3 decades. It's very busy, joggers, runners, people stopping & chatting. The only thing that changed over the last few months is that it got far busier during the lockdown. Never seen this walkway so consistently busy.
The lack of social distancing was laughable.
Yes we saw this last weekend at St.kilda/Port Melbourne. People everywhere, heard one complain about social distancing(so why not stay home then?), but people doing the right thing.

I didn't feel uncomfortable, kids loved getting out of the house and so did the adults.
And then guess what, I'm still here and corona free!
Get out there and live people, we are not America, or Singapore or some third world country. Australia and Australians have done a super job, I'm proud of this country at the moment.
mixo

As much as we would like to step out of our door & walk on the foreshore walkway, we only walk around the streets to keep well away from others.

We have explored streets we have never walked in our lives to keep the interest up. Others are doing the same thing but the volume of people is not too bad.

dogbox · Guru

Gundog wrote:

Dogbox said

why do you think our infection rates are so low?

why do you think or death rate is low?

do we need to increase our infection rate ?

Peak infection was caused by cruise ships and airlines passengers, who were not quarantined nor tested for Covid19.
Post peak was a result of lack containment, and health and allied workers without proper testing, and those who continued to with flu like symptoms, 20 deaths at the Penrith aged care facility, and where health workers transmitted it to family like the Melb meat worker who's partner was a heath worker.
Now look at the where those who passed away and where they acquired the virus.
When the infection rate was less than 0.003% at it's peak the closers were an unnecessary knee jerk reaction .
Note during this whole event how many essential workers at supermarkets contracted the virus?
An increased infection rate is not killer everyone is lead to believe, if the hospital, aged care, nursing homes and medical facilities had proper virus containment and prevention. I'm in my 70's and I would rather see our nation back at work but our external boarders remain secure, than let tinpot premiers act like spoilt children.

so your solution to the problem would be business as usual ?
isn't that what plan donald has.
100,000 dead or adjust it to our population we would have approx 10,000 dead instead of 100 mind you they wouldn't all be old farts like us, a lot of young people are being hit hard, it just that the old worn out units would be high in the count
another few weeks an we will start to see the effect of easing of restrictions hopefully they will be able to lift a few more