Corona virus where to now.

Recoup · Guru

RE: Corona virus where to now.

dogbox · Guru

lord sumption related to con sumption?

bgt · Guru

I'm still waiting for solutions. Real solutions not just opinions.

Imagine you are the PM or a premier. You are responsible for every-ones health, virus and mental, as well as the economic health of the countries future. So what's the solution?

Is the second wave coming? Is the second wave covid-19 or suicides and mental health?

If you are on a pension will you take a cut to help those who have lost everything due to the shutdown? Or are you happy for taxes or your grand kids to pay the bill? What is your reaction if your local Maccas goes broke? Or your favourite coffee shop/bakery closes?

Given that there has never been a vaccine for any covid virus we will need to open up the economy at sometime. So what infection rate is 'acceptable' to you?

Answers not just broad opinions.

DMaxer · Guru

Bgt, if the solution was on a caravan forum then the rest of the world would not need to rely on their medical officers to give an informed opinion.

Do you seriously think that any member of this forum has greater insight than the medicos throughout the world.

The medicos can only give a presumptive opinion based on the case studies and the science available to them and their overseas colleagues.

There are variances in opinion between these medicos, of course. None of them have had to deal with it before.

The politicians cannot play Russian roulette with peoples' lives just because a few people cannot stand being at home with their dreary partners or family any longer.

dogbox · Guru

as long as the hospitals are not over stressed to the point of someone has to make a decision on who gets the required treatment/resources and who doesn't.

fine balancing act for who ever makes the decisions on saving the economy or saving the people some countries will end up with an economy in ruins an a lot of dead people .

our hospitals are in a better position to handle what may come in the next 4-6 weeks than they were when it all started

as far as real answers, we don't know what is coming, it may peter out where it is no different to the yearly flu that x number of people die from or it may take off like a wild fire an make the flu look like a non event

Gundog · Guru

dogbox So 2500 deaths from last year's flu season no lockdown, business as usual even with a vaccine available was ok, now chuck into the mix, lost hours of work from sickies. At the tail end of covid19 contamination, 20 preventable deaths caused by a health worker and the owners/managers of a facility that failed testing and continuing to work with flue like symptoms and a proper contamination containment policy. Then deduct those who were on various cruise ships and repatriation flights that passed, our numbers would have been even smaller. The long term effects of having a healthy population idle and depending on governments handouts will create even greater hardship long into the future that our children will have to repay, a country living on the the government's bank card someone has to repay the debt.

Santa · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
Bgt, if the solution was on a caravan forum then the rest of the world would not need to rely on their medical officers to give an informed opinion.
Do you seriously think that any member of this forum has greater insight than the medicos throughout the world.
The medicos can only give a presumptive opinion based on the case studies and the science available to them and their overseas colleagues.
There are variances in opinion between these medicos, of course. None of them have had to deal with it before.
The politicians cannot play Russian roulette with peoples' lives just because a few people cannot stand being at home with their dreary partners or family any longer.

Good reply DMax, people expect black and white answers to complex issues, its simply not possible.

On the whole Australians unlike our American cousins have been largely compliant with the restrictions we have been asked to accept, this obviously has contributed greatly to us escaping relatively unscathed.

There will always be dissenters, just human nature, its a shame common sense and logic are not as wide spread. smile

Gundog · Guru

Postscript....... If Clive Palmer continues his high court challenge re boarder closures, using the free trade and movement between state is clearly written in the constitution. During this so called epidemic two states boarders have remained open you could cross between them unimpeded, there has been no evidence of virus interstate transmission. Tin pot small minded premiers and their cohorts are overreactionists, with evidence such boarder closures to be effective.

dogbox · Guru

Gundog wrote:

dogbox
So 2500 deaths from last year's flu season no lockdown, business as usual even with a vaccine available was ok, now chuck into the mix, lost hours of work from sickies.
At the tail end of covid19 contamination, 20 preventable deaths caused by a health worker and the owners/managers of a facility that failed testing and continuing to work with flue like symptoms and a proper contamination containment policy.
Then deduct those who were on various cruise ships and repatriation flights that passed, our numbers would have been even smaller.
The long term effects of having a healthy population idle and depending on governments handouts will create even greater hardship long into the future that our children will have to repay, a country living on the the government's bank card someone has to repay the debt.

2500 deaths (i will take your word for it ) an we have a vaccine.
i wonder how many deaths from flu this year ?
will social distancing an restrictions mean their will be less ?
we seen what happens when one cruise ship is let run loose with no checks and balances
if we use the results from the USA and adjust them to our country our corona deaths could (in theory ) be 4 times the flu deaths from last year to date . that hasn't happened yet, hopefully won't. things are opening up maybe not as fast as you might like but they are giving us dates a some restriction are easing people are starting to move around . we will know in 4-6 weeks one way or another

dogbox · Guru

Gundog wrote:

Postscript....... If Clive Palmer continues his high court challenge re boarder closures, using the free trade and movement between state is clearly written in the constitution. During this so called epidemic two states boarders have remained open you could cross between them unimpeded, there has been no evidence of virus interstate transmission. Tin pot small minded premiers and their cohorts are overreactionists, with evidence such boarder closures to be effective.

clive palmer?

please explain ?

DMaxer · Guru

Perhaps those that are moaning about the restrictions might care to think about the doctors and nurses and other frontline staff that will have to tend to these sick and infected people whilst putting their own health at risk.

It is very easy to tell everyone else what they should be doing when their own health is not going to be placed at risk. If you consider the risk is minimal why not go down and volunteer your services and knowledge at one of the local hospitals. I am sure that the medical specialists would value your wise opinions.

Cupie · Guru

Santa wrote:
DMaxer wrote:
Bgt, if the solution was on a caravan forum then the rest of the world would not need to rely on their medical officers to give an informed opinion.
Do you seriously think that any member of this forum has greater insight than the medicos throughout the world.
The medicos can only give a presumptive opinion based on the case studies and the science available to them and their overseas colleagues.
There are variances in opinion between these medicos, of course. None of them have had to deal with it before.
The politicians cannot play Russian roulette with peoples' lives just because a few people cannot stand being at home with their dreary partners or family any longer.
Good reply DMax, people expect black and white answers to complex issues, its simply not possible.
On the whole Australians unlike our American cousins have been largely compliant with the restrictions we have been asked to accept, this obviously has contributed greatly to us escaping relatively unscathed.
There will always be dissenters, just human nature, its a shame common sense and logic are not as wide spread.

I am in total agreement.

BTW does the comment about 'Tin pot small minded premiers and their cohorts are overreactionists, with evidence such boarder closures to be effective' apply to all Premiers or just to those of a different political persuasion to the poster.

Cupie · Guru

dogbox wrote:
Gundog wrote:

Postscript....... If Clive Palmer continues his high court challenge re boarder closures, using the free trade and movement between state is clearly written in the constitution. During this so called epidemic two states boarders have remained open you could cross between them unimpeded, there has been no evidence of virus interstate transmission. Tin pot small minded premiers and their cohorts are overreactionists, with evidence such boarder closures to be effective.

clive palmer?

please explain ?

Clive is reported to be taking Legal action against the WA Govt for denying him access to attend some gathering of his latest gaggle of political candidates.

Mz 'Please Explain' is also reported to be taking action.

You/they may be interested in the following

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-23/fact-check-state-border-closures-australian-constitution-corona/12164440

extract follows ...

"However, constitutional experts contacted by Fact Check said it has long been accepted by the courts that there can be valid exceptions to these prohibitions, where it is necessary to protect the people of a state from the risk of injury from inbound goods, animals, and people.

They said the deadly coronavirus was likely to fall under such an exception as long as the restrictions imposed by a state are limited to the life of the emergency, tailored to protecting public health and do not single out people's interstate status without good reason."

So there you go!

bgt · Guru

DMaxer I don't expect an answer here. What I'm trying to do is get posters to come up with suggestions for a path forward rather than all doomsday posts. Simply saying that we should stay locked up until the virus is under control is not an answer. Without a vaccine, which may never come, we have to return to 'normal' at sometime. So I ask again. "What is an acceptable covid-19 infection rate before we return to 'normal'?" FWIW I'm on a pension so not a wealthy capitalist. I have a compromised immune system with a loss of 30% of my lung capacity. I was recently given a 1 in 3 chance of making it through the night. A few weeks ago I had major urgent surgery for a tumour. So you can see I'm not trying to save my own skin by saying 'stay locked up' . But I do know that staying locked up is doing a great deal of damage to those not directly affected by covid-19. IMHO we now have the medical capacity to cover an out break. Within reason. We need to open up the economy at a faster rate while still promoting social distancing, hand washing and a HUGE dose of common sense.

outlaw40 · Guru

Maybe we just leave it to the experts and do what ever we are told ... Simples .

Wanda · Guru

YEP, have to agree with Dmax and also outlaw40
Definately won't find the answers here, tooooo many rednecks for my liking disbelief
So so glad our politicans have confided in Health experts and Scientists and not some of the "wise" opinionated selfish nobs out there. biggrin
regards
Ian

Cupie · Guru

Well said Ian

msg · Guru

My thoughts. Even if they opened up the states, it would do little good for tourism (except for the long weekend and school holidays) as no one would be taking holidays after such a long time not working. Might as well stay closed.

dogbox · Guru

i did hear about pauline but not clive

Whenarewethere · Guru

There are some people who are too precious. I would hate to think what it would be like if we actually had a real problem. War, no water, tsunami.

I have a roof over my head & say home more often. Extremely stressful first world problems! I didn't have a holiday for years when I had a mortgage at 17%. If I can't have a holiday this year it's hardly the end of the world.

I have a very tiny violin for the whining!

Greg 1 · Guru

As a West Australian I don't want Clive Palmer here anyway and I would bet a back tooth or two that most West Aussies would feel the same. He needs to realize that the border closure applies equally to him as anyone else and at last count had about an 85% support from West Australians. If it were left up to me I would permanently ban him from WA. He and Donald would go well together. Maybe we could get him to move to the USA.

Mike Harding · Guru

outlaw40 wrote:
Maybe we just leave it to the experts and do what ever we are told ... Simples .

Some of you people frighten me.

Rob Driver · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
outlaw40 wrote:
Maybe we just leave it to the experts and do what ever we are told ... Simples .
Some of you people frighten me.

Yes Mike Harding you certainly do.

Regards

Angie

Rob Driver · Guru

If we all look at the figures in Australia let alone the rest of the world it is, in our case, the states that locked down quickly had a lot less cases than the states that didnt.
Throughout the world where, at times the figures are probably distorted in the attempt to paint a better picture, the countries that allowed freedom and the ones that relaxed lockdowns early have all had a frightening number of cases and huge numbers of second wave infections.
Surely we should learn from that.

This topic has some good points in as much as the media causes mass hysteria if only to gain an audience.

I see where gundog is coming from with his comments as I believe he was one of the many that connected their vans and made the almighty dash to Queensland which was not much more than a selfish attempt to have their winter holiday. This could have been easily at the expense of essential services workers health, should he or anyone else doing that, carried the virus and passed it on to these workers.
We were told not to travel for a valid reason as the picture indicates above and this really still applies. It is a shame that some states are bowing to media and business pressure.
Many businesses do not survive even in so called good times and for the ones that are suffering we all feel for them.
The quicker that this virus is controlled the quicker our country may get back to some form of being close to normal.

On a side note I hear the cries from hotels on how they need massive numbers in their dining rooms but neglect to mention the billions of dollars that they have had their greedy little hands on from the poker machines in the many years leading up to this current event.
Maybe they could dip into that money rather than stand there whinging with the media and holding their hands out to the government to pay their workers during this time.
Apology for the rant,

Regards

Angie

Wanda · Guru

Here here Angie, nice to see a commonsense reply and love the last paragraph, so so true.
Enough said about M. H.

cheers
Ian

Whenarewethere · Guru

The Coronavirus deaths reported are in general for most countries only the ones who died in hospital. In UK there is an estimate of an additional 11,000.

My neighbour's mum just died & the same happened to a friend of his. Both were not Coronavirus deaths, but as they couldn't visit their elderly parents in nursing homes, their health went down quickly.

Maybe they would have died anyway, but their health went down fast seemingly due to lack of visits & their deaths will be simply counted as age related.

What will be more worthwhile is calculating the average death rate over this period as compared to previous years.

Whenarewethere · Guru

bentaxlebabe wrote:
We were told not to travel for a valid reason as the picture indicates above and this really still applies.

Nothing has actually changed. We are supposed to stay 1.5 metres apart or have 4 m2 around us. In a big hardware store yesterday that was difficult but I tried my very best & they likewise!

Office blocks are trying to work out how to get people up & down lifts 2 people at a time. A calculation on the radio the other day is it would take 5 hours in the morning to everybody in their building.

Maybe divide up lifts with acrylic sheet like shops are putting around checkouts.

DMaxer · Guru

One thing that I have noticed during this crisis is the inability of our federal treasurer to pronounce the letter "l".

He refers to millions as "miyyuns", billions as "biyyuns" and Australia as, you guessed it, "Austraya".

Whilst parliament is not sitting perhaps he might enrol in a remedial english class.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 24th of May 2020 10:07:04 AM

Rob Driver · Guru

Totally agree Jonathan,

A visit to Coles or Woolworths compound your observations. My husband had an incident with a young fellow in Supacheapauto who would not maintain his distance. People visiting supermarkets just dont care.
In a park near us last Sunday there was a group of 22 backpackers all gathered there having a social afternoon. The police turned up and moved them on but I doubt very much that they learned anything or even cared about social distancing, and this is before we open pubs and ply people with alcohol to gain the most profit from turnover.

If I were to encounter someone wanting to ride in a lift I would take the stairs. Another issue is one of contact with doors and even lift buttons where this virus could easily be spread.

We have flown overseas a few times in the past and at Singapore and Hong Kong there has been a monitor positioned with one of those point and shoot thermometers taking everyones temperature prior to boarding an aircraft. Maybe this procedure would be more effective with early detection than waiting for someone to actually show symptoms. This could so easily be done at the point of entry of any shop or venue.

Unfortunately the fact that most heavily populated areas like cities will have outbreaks of the virus due to lack of respect from many who frequent the area but it is when one of these carriers then decides to travel into areas without the virus is where the trouble will start.

We have, as a forum discussed the problems with medical facilities in these smaller regional centres and country towns and will only take one fortnite of time after someone has infected others to have this situation snowball into a major problem.

Unfortunately while the attitude of self entitlement exists with some and this is supported by the disgraceful reports by the media then there will be some that feel they are justified in risking the health of all just to satisfy their own misguided entitlement.

Regards

Angie

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 24th of May 2020 10:20:54 AM

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 24th of May 2020 10:22:56 AM

bgt · Guru

OK I'll ask just one more time as no one has given an answer.

Given that there has never been a vaccine for any covid virus and the likely hood of them finding one now sounds slim, we are going to either go into permanent lock down or learn to live with covid-19. So The question is - "what rate of infection will be accepted to be able to open up everything again? 0? 10? 50? per day?"

I'm asking not to stir the forum but rather to make folks think about what is in front of us. Covid-19 is not just going to vanish.

ps, I don't give a rats how the treasurer talks. There are 25 million Australians. Many of them coming from overseas. All of them with some sort of accent. How about putting bias aside.