Nursing Homes/Full time Care.....

bilbo · Senior Member

Nursing Homes/Full time Care.....

Bill B · Guru

Get a copy of their agreement which would outline all fees and charges etc.

solomonsdog · Member

This factsheet is worth a look. https://www.myagedcare.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-04/refund-of-lump-sums-paid-for-accomodation.pdf

Kaid · Guru

We had this happen when mum passed away. The money gets put back into the Estate within 10 days of Probate being granted

dogbox · Guru

what happens if people have not got $300,000 for a bond

The Travelling Dillberries · Guru

Kaid wrote:
We had this happen when mum passed away. The money gets put back into the Estate within 10 days of Probate being granted

A friend has lost everything due to the site owners declaring bankruptcy. Do your homework on the financial status of the place. This was a privately owned facility.

the rocket · Guru

dogbox wrote:
what happens if people have not got $300,000 for a bond

Exactly. Been looking into this and think i need to look into euthenasia for me some time in the future cos going into a nursing home sounds like torture And a money makng exercise and thats not for us.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

the rocket wrote:
dogbox wrote:
what happens if people have not got $300,000 for a bond
Exactly. Been looking into this and think i need to look into euthenasia for me some time in the future cos going into a nursing home sounds like torture And a money makng exercise and thats not for us.

There are plenty of places where the bond is well over $300,000.

Fact is whether you go into full time care, or not, and when, will probably not be your decision when the time comes, but be decided by whoever holds your Advanced Care Directive on the advise of those in the medical profession.

Cheers,

Peter

Whenarewethere · Guru

My sister organised a nursing home for one of our parents a decade ago. It's exhausting & it is a complete nightmare. Being an ex nurse she went around the nursing homes knowing what to look for. Even basic things like the smell of number 1 or 2 anywhere throughout the site. It gives a good indication how committed they are to the residents.

Once you have narrowed it down, visit the home a few times at different times & the weekend.

Outside the premises try to ask other visitors what they think of the nursing home as you are thinking of having your parent here.

Read all the fine print thoroughly!

We were very happy with the nursing home we had & so was our parent. We felt extremely lucky hearing of all the problems.

bilbo · Senior Member

Thanks everyone for yr comments.

I am confidant about the nursing home "being up to scratch"....so is Mum (she has had 2 "trial" runs there).

I will take the "agreement" to a lawyer to peruse ............cheers Bilbo

oldbloke · Guru

Kaid wrote:
We had this happen when mum passed away. The money gets put back into the Estate within 10 days of Probate being granted

That was my experience. But lawyer made a written request then paid within about 2 weeks. This is Vic. State's may vary.

dorian · Guru

I don't understand the justification for paying any more bond than a tenant in residential housing. That's usually 4 weeks rent AFAIK. It covers damage to the property.

In any case, why isn't this bond held in trust, in which case it wouldn't be at risk if the company became bankrupt? In fact, why is the nursing home permitted to use your bond as operating capital (which is the implication if the bond disappears as a consequence of a bankruptcy declaration)? To me, it looks like a Ponzi scam where new "tenants" pay out the bonds of deceased tenants.

Wanda · Guru

Yep $300k is one of the cheaper ones, my mothers is $550k.
I think it is referred to these days as Residentual Care and yes it is refunded upon leaving(however).
The sale of a persons house is how you would normally cover the cost of it, if you are lucky enough to own it.
There are some homes better than others, we moved my mother from one home, bond $500k, to the current home which is far superior in all aspects of her care.
You need to do your homework and talk to as many people as possible
regards
Ian

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

The "bond" is in fact the total charge for the accommodation.
There is then a care fee (which includes care, meals, cleaning, laundry etc). Part of which is a fixed amount (currently $52.25 per day) set by the government, the other part is means tested.
Cheers,
Peter

Wanda · Guru

Peter n Margaret, correct 100%
Costly this getting old thing, hey!
Ian

Kaid · Guru

Mum was in a Nursing Home in Victoria

SouthernComfort · Guru

My mum has been in a Vic aged care home for 11 months so far. $500k bond, plus costs (basically funded by the pension) as described by Peter n Margaret. Sold her townhouse to fund the bond. We were lucky to find an excellent home with a larger than average room, en suite and private access to garden. When she 'vacates', the $500k principal gets refunded. In the meantime the home makes their money on investment income from the bond. As Wanda says above, it is worth doing as much homework as possible. Not all homes are created equal but there are some jewels among the rough.

the rocket · Guru

SouthernComfort wrote:
My mum has been in a Vic aged care home for 11 months so far. $500k bond, plus costs (basically funded by the pension) as described by Peter n Margaret. Sold her townhouse to fund the bond. We were lucky to find an excellent home with a larger than average room, en suite and private access to garden. When she 'vacates', the $500k principal gets refunded. In the meantime the home makes their money on investment income from the bond. As Wanda says above, it is worth doing as much homework as possible. Not all homes are created equal but there are some jewels among the rough.

What happens if they invest it badly or do you get to choose where it is invested?

Wanda · Guru

Rocket, no, you just get your money back.
So if they invest it "badly", thats their problem.
Its a bond, once it is handed over its theirs, until you leave, one way or the other.
cheers(still standing)
Ian

Whenarewethere · Guru

Rather than handing over $500k, couldn't one just give them the expected return, on a monthly basis, in advance.

JeffRae · Guru

We had to find my mother accommodation as she could no longer look after herself. We are in WA, she was in Victoria.
RAD (Bond) was negotiated at $300,000. At the time we could only afford $100,000 so we had a DAP (daily accomodation payment) as well. This was $200,000 x 5.5% = $11,000/365 = $30 per day DAP
The interest rate is determined by the government, currently around 4%.
As well, we had a daily care fee to pay (determined by goverment)
Once the full RAD is paid (eg sale of house) you no longer pay the DAP

When the accommodation is vacated you are then paid interest on the RAD until it is repaid. (Currently around 2%)

It was very time consuming and quite stressful as we had to pick accommodation sight unseen. We were happy with our choice on inspection at a later date

JeffRae

Whenarewethere · Guru

I'm not going to have someone to do all this for me. I'll have to get on the good side of my niece!

JeffRae · Guru

Make sure she has Power of Attorney for your financial & medical affairs, the biggest hurdle to get over is "privacy"

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

You will need to assign an Enduring Power of Attorney and an Advanced Medical Directive.
Talk to a Solicitor. It is important.
Cheers,
Peter

SouthernComfort · Guru

Anyone who's been through it certainly knows the process is long winded and complex. We used an accountant/fin adviser who specialises in aged care applications and it was worth every penny. At the time, some of the rules and policies were in the midst of being changed and to keep abreast of it all would have been a real challenge for any DIY'er. At the end we had everything ticked off by our solicitor with P of A etc. all put in place. Definitely a process worthy of professional guidance.

Centrelink also has to be involved as asset changes will affect the pension. Even though your principal home doesn't count as an asset for pension means testing, once it's sold the cash value of it does. The RAD is considered an asset for the means test although from memory there's a couple of years grace before it is taken into account, don't quote me though I'd really need to check that again...

Those who don't have sufficient assets to cover the RAD can apply for a govt. subsidised placement where no RAD is payable. All care homes are required to have a small percentage of standard rooms reserved for this purpose. To qualify for a 100% subsidy your total asset worth must be less than about $50k, (that was 12 mths ago, it gets reviewed periodically). Daily care costs are still 85% of the pension though. So it's a system where you're best off either having plenty of money/assets, or very little!

-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Saturday 26th of September 2020 09:25:51 AM

Whenarewethere · Guru

The system is broken. Either you have to filthy rich or a pauper. Our other parent was nursed at home. We had hospital bed, oscillating air mattress to prevent bed sores (& we had none, the best piece of equipment, so but one), oxygen concentrator & a really good doctor.

The last few weeks were costing us over $7000pw for private support. We were prepared to pay extra for actual nurses, but could not get any. The carers we could get were brilliant. Chatting with them we were surprised just how overloaded the system was. After a night shift with us they were off to do a day shift.

SouthernComfort · Guru

Yep, the system is overloaded. In Vic there's a 12 month waiting list to get a govt. home care package.

BTW, as JeffRae mentioned above, with care homes you can pay the DAP instead of a lump sum RAD, or even part DAP and part RAD (we did that until the property sold). To afford full DAP long term you still need some reasonable assets.