Electric car in ACT

bgt · Guru

RE: Electric car in ACT

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

Does not matter how much you run the reverse cycle A/C or anything else if it is powered from 100% renewable energy.
Cheers,
Peter

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

bgt wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb you could go further. Don't install the reverse cycle a/c. Buy a natural fibre jumper instead to keep warm. Be true to your beliefs.

Yes. I already do that but it gets bleeding cold and the electricity is 100% renewable so it doesn't really matter.

What is everyone else doing?

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Sunday 24th of January 2021 11:36:12 PM

landy · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:

bgt wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb you could go further. Don't install the reverse cycle a/c. Buy a natural fibre jumper instead to keep warm. Be true to your beliefs.
Yes. I already do that but it gets bleeding cold and the electricity is 100% renewable so it doesn't really matter.
What is everyone else doing?

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Sunday 24th of January 2021 11:36:12 PM

Buzz you will Find the New Zealand possum blend jumpers and socks will keep you nice and toasty in any conditions and you will be doing your bit for the New Zealand environment by supporting the Possum cull. Win win in my books.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Been there, done that. I've bought Possum, merino and silk blended products. They are very warm but very expensive.

And before other's respond, I have an alpaca coat - it's fantastic. It's water resistant and very warm due to its hollow fibres like possum hair -, an Nepalese wool jacket with a hood - again very warm but it's a bit rough looking and Australian merino clothes. But when one sits around at - 8° it gets cold.

Again, the air on is powered by 100% renewable energy so I don't feel guilty.

Mike,

I've answered your questions. Will you answer mine or is this one way information?

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 25th of January 2021 02:53:25 PM

Mike Harding · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Mike,
I've answered your questions. Will you answer mine or is this one way information?

Sorry, I became bored with this thread.

As I mentioned before; I live in a caravan in the bush and have a carbon foot print of which you can only dream.

I read your list - it doesn't amount to much does it.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Good on you Mike,

I also have become bored with this post but the joke thread seems to have died off..

At least we are doing something. I feel like I'm the only grey nomad who's not a climate denier, or worse, someone who knows there's a problem and who doesn't do something about it. It's like knowing there's a venomous snake near someone and not telling them that it's about to bite them. If we all had that attitude then climate change is inevitable. Each person has to his or her tiny bit and although what I'm doing may seem small, at least it's something.

Thanks for the reply.

bgt · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb that's where you are making your key mistake. You are calling folks who don't agree with your view "climate deniers". That's far from the truth and the typical hysteria pushed by many. The reality/truth is that many folks are concerned about climate issues. Where the different is is how we find the solution. Calling some people names only alienates them and discredits folks with good intentions that don't agree with your view. You will do yourself a favour by opening up your eyes and mind and listening to other points of views rather than screaming "climate denier".

landy · Guru

Deleted.

-- Edited by landy on Tuesday 26th of January 2021 11:40:30 AM

-- Edited by landy on Tuesday 26th of January 2021 11:41:34 AM

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

This has become too sensationalised. You say "Australia could go headlong into renewables because we wont be needing electricity or EV's. Because we will be all living in bark huts. No electricity. No cars. No nothing actually." (do you really think that?) and I sensationalise hoping that people will do their bit for climate change. There's a caveat on how I "felt", which you have chosen to leave out. I tried to be present facts and logic but broke under the attack of emotional statements. I apologise for that. I have tried to answer people's questions with only Mike answering mine.

You pick and choose bits and pieces of my replies, eloquently shoot them down and add statements, inferring that I alluded to something that I didn't say, but you won't answer my question about what you are doing for climate change. Only Mike answered my question after many prompts. What am I to think when you don't answer, you just pick out faults? If you are doing something, then what is it? Otherwise, my only conclusion is that you are doing nothing. Isn't that a fair assumption?

Of course only a few people have replied to this post. Tony was brave enough to make a post in support and I now know that Mike is doing his bit, but in general, those replies seem to indicate that those people don't want to do something about climate change. Hence, my statement.

Now I'll expect that you'll reply, selecting something I've written and twisting it around. You're very good at that, but what are you doing to mitigate climate change?

bgt · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb maybe, just maybe some folks aren't in a position to 'do their bit'. Short of turning down the a/c or heater, they are stuck with what they have. It's way too easy to preach from the alter but not everyone is in a position to contribute. Life deals us our hand of cards. Some folks can play the game but others can't. I'm simply not in a position to contribute more than I ready do. Look in our recycle bin and see the efforts we, wife, goes to to recycle. We use 1, that's right 1, tank of fuel a month in the car. Is that not doing our bit? We walk to the shops. We don't drive. We can't afford solar but our power bill subsidize others, who can afford them, to install solar. That's contributing to your view of life.

I could go on but there's no point. Because you simply wont accept that there is alternative view. But I do know that I'm not going to personally pay the price, in whatever form, so that some folks can sleep better at night with the view that only they care.

Mike Harding · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Only Mike answered my question after many prompts.

Errrr... one prompt I rather think - which is not unreasonable given the banality of the thread.

Greystone · Senior Member

Buzz, I'm with you. We are fortunate to afford an electric vehicle, solar panels and house battery and we have rain water tanks. We are self sufficient in power and water requirements. We also grow most of our own food and only rely on supermarkets for stuff like detergents, milk etc. I have been involved in many forums where electric vehicles were a topic of discussion. In general I found that there are more sceptics who participate in the discussion than supporters. I also found that most of the sceptics have never driven an electric vehicle. My view is that the EV train has left the station. Less than 10 years ago the first commercially available EVs had a range of around 120km and took 3 to 4 hours to fully recharge. Now a range of 300-400km is not unusual and charge times are less than 1 hour. Already new batteries have been developed that can be recharged in minutes and ranges are forecast in excess of 600km. The price of the first cheapest EV was around $65k. It is now around $45k and dropping. Several countries have already set targets of zero fossil fuel vehicle sales in less than 2 decades. This means that vehicle manufacturers are now investing heavily in EV production. So within the next decade or so EVs will become mainstream. And Australia will follow whether we like it or not, with or without government subsidies, simply because the supply of ICE vehicles will dry up. Depending on government policies we, as consumers, will be paying a fair market price for these vehicles or we will be ripped off through taxes. Whichever way, EVs are going to happen. Sorry for the lack of formatting, I use a tablet.

yobarr · Guru

Greystone wrote:
Buzz, I'm with you. We are fortunate to afford an electric vehicle, solar panels and house battery and we have rain water tanks. We are self sufficient in power and water requirements. We also grow most of our own food and only rely on supermarkets for stuff like detergents, milk etc. I have been involved in many forums where electric vehicles were a topic of discussion. In general I found that there are more sceptics who participate in the discussion than supporters. I also found that most of the sceptics have never driven an electric vehicle. My view is that the EV train has left the station. Less than 10 years ago the first commercially available EVs had a range of around 120km and took 3 to 4 hours to fully recharge. Now a range of 300-400km is not unusual and charge times are less than 1 hour. Already new batteries have been developed that can be recharged in minutes and ranges are forecast in excess of 600km. The price of the first cheapest EV was around $65k. It is now around $45k and dropping. Several countries have already set targets of zero fossil fuel vehicle sales in less than 2 decades. This means that vehicle manufacturers are now investing heavily in EV production. So within the next decade or so EVs will become mainstream. And Australia will follow whether we like it or not, with or without government subsidies, simply because the supply of ICE vehicles will dry up. Depending on government policies we, as consumers, will be paying a fair market price for these vehicles or we will be ripped off through taxes. Whichever way, EVs are going to happen. Sorry for the lack of formatting, I use a tablet.

Hmmm.......I intended to reply to your post,but unfortunately I find it difficult to communicate with a person who,like Buzz Lighbulb,seemingly has no name,no gender, and doesn't even know where they live? Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 26th of January 2021 07:46:01 PM

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Greystone wrote:
Buzz, I'm with you. We are fortunate to afford an electric vehicle, solar panels and house battery and we have rain water tanks. We are self sufficient in power and water requirements. We also grow most of our own food and only rely on supermarkets for stuff like detergents, milk etc. I have been involved in many forums where electric vehicles were a topic of discussion. In general I found that there are more sceptics who participate in the discussion than supporters. I also found that most of the sceptics have never driven an electric vehicle. My view is that the EV train has left the station. Less than 10 years ago the first commercially available EVs had a range of around 120km and took 3 to 4 hours to fully recharge. Now a range of 300-400km is not unusual and charge times are less than 1 hour. Already new batteries have been developed that can be recharged in minutes and ranges are forecast in excess of 600km. The price of the first cheapest EV was around $65k. It is now around $45k and dropping. Several countries have already set targets of zero fossil fuel vehicle sales in less than 2 decades. This means that vehicle manufacturers are now investing heavily in EV production. So within the next decade or so EVs will become mainstream. And Australia will follow whether we like it or not, with or without government subsidies, simply because the supply of ICE vehicles will dry up. Depending on government policies we, as consumers, will be paying a fair market price for these vehicles or we will be ripped off through taxes. Whichever way, EVs are going to happen. Sorry for the lack of formatting, I use a tablet.

Thanks Greystone,

According to the NRMA electric vehicles prices will come down as there's more demand (you've helped with that) . I think that the NRMA predicted the EVs prices would be comparable to the equivalent internal combustion engined vehicles in about 2024. By then we might be able to afford buying one. Hopefully there will still be government initiatives to help the purchase. Fingers crossed.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

bgt wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb maybe, just maybe some folks aren't in a position to 'do their bit'. Short of turning down the a/c or heater, they are stuck with what they have. It's way too easy to preach from the alter but not everyone is in a position to contribute.
___:__________
I didn't tell you how to live. I'm not asking you to do more. I just asked what were you doing and now you have answered.
----------------------
Life deals us our hand of cards. Some folks can play the game but others can't. I'm simply not in a position to contribute more than I ready do. Look in our recycle bin and see the efforts we, wife, goes to to recycle. We use 1, that's right 1, tank of fuel a month in the car. Is that not doing our bit?
________________________
Yes it is. One can only do what one can. I'd like to be as rich as Gina Rinehart, then I'd be able to do a lot more for the environment and inequality, but I'm not, so I do what I can as you appear to be doing but you seem to think that I'm asking you to do more but I'm not.
_________________________
We walk to the shops. We don't drive. We can't afford solar but our power bill subsidize others, who can afford them, to install solar.
That's contributing to your view of life.
_________________________
I'm sorry but that's not my fault. It's the government's fault for not having decent and reliable renewable policies. It's also the private power companies who are charging us all more than they should. You seem to blame me for that.
--------------------------------------

I could go on but there's no point. Because you simply wont accept that there is alternative view.
--------------------------------------
We are both guilty of that.
-----------------------------------------
But I do know that I'm not going to personally pay the price, in whatever form, so that some folks can sleep better at night with the view that only they care.

I haven't asked you to do that.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Only Mike answered my question after many prompts.
Errrr... one prompt I rather think - which is not unreasonable given the banality of the thread.

I counted three times.

Mike Harding · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Only Mike answered my question after many prompts.
Errrr... one prompt I rather think - which is not unreasonable given the banality of the thread.
I counted three times.

Clearly the thread is more banal than I thought....

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Only Mike answered my question after many prompts.
Errrr... one prompt I rather think - which is not unreasonable given the banality of the thread.
I counted three times.
Clearly the thread is more banal than I thought....

smile

peter67 · Guru

I think BGT makes some practical points.

It seems to me that greenies are pushing an ideal that battery technology will not support, just look at the fiasco in SA (during summer!!) with rolling blackouts and the massive rise in power costs to industry, from memory it closed down a massive recycling plant by increasing it's power bill by four times. Just read that 75% of Melbourne's recycling waste is going to landfill, same happens here in WA since ours burnt down.

The big thing with electric cars is range anxiety, if you do find a charging point how many kilometers long is the line. We live in a hot climate so running the cars aircon off a battery will shorten range not mention lights, wipers etc now who wants to tow a trailer with their electric car much less a caravan, and i need to see first hand the massive battery banks that a 155 ton semi trailer needs to travel the 200k's between fuel stops out on the nullabor plains. Even small freight trucks will struggle in the city, perhaps the roads will be quieter because everyone is sitting at charging stations waiting for their turn so i hope Andrew Forrest and others can get hydrogen up and running on a commercial scale.

ps at present buying used electric cars is fraught with wallet danger re battery pack condition. Replacing a battery pack is between six and eight thousand for the couple i have looked at, who's got that much sitting idle in a bank account. I wonder how much a luxury suv battery pack is worth?

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

I imagine that the majority of cars are used to travel short local trips. This is where electric vehicles should, initially, excel. There shouldn't be range anxiety, because of the short trips, and charging could occur at home if the charging stations are in full use.

Ideally, very small electric vehicles, like the Toyota iRoad, would be a cheaper investment, be easier to park in a city and probably meet the majority of daily use needs. I think it was Taiwan that had vehicles that allowed one to swap out nearly flat batteries for fully charged batteries similar to swapping LPG cylinders. This would solve the waiting around for charging issue. There may initially be anxiety about being hit by huge SUVs and other vehicles but eventually this will be overcome by experience and the other vehicles becoming smaller for city commuting.

Yes, hydrogen power sounds promising for larger vehicles and industry once the issues of storage and leakage are solved. This may be conversion to ammonia and then back again to hydrogen immediately before use, but there will always be energy loss during the conversion processes. Renewable energy is already cheaper than fossil fuels and battery storage is currently, the most effective way to store that energy for intermediate use. Small steps now will help with the bigger steps later on and there's a lot of research into different batteries that can, supposedly, be charged within 15 minutes. That's less time than having a break for a cuppa, a bite to eat and use the toilet. Something that we probably all need to do.

The point is that we need to start somewhere to ween ourselves off fossil fuels,. Otherwise, climate change will cause more problems for more people and it will cost more to fix. The ACT Government appears to be doing a lot better than the current federal government by these interest free loans to help those who do want to get an electric car, solar panels or battery storage. It's a start and once we start, more people will be willing to accept change as time goes by. Look at littering. When I was a child, no one considered it a problem but now, all but the few ignorant people, would prefer to put our rubbish in a bin rather than just throw it onto the ground. We need to start somewhere and the change in attitude will follow.

msg · Guru

Peter67,

Those blackouts in SA were occurring back in 70-80's. You could pretty well guarantee that New Years day and the last weekend in January would get into the 40's and blackouts would occur. We installed ducted air con but it was a waste of time because every time it got hot you couldn't run it. Its systemic I think and nothing has been done about it even after all this time.

I often wonder about climate change. Has it really changed or have they just changed the parameters. These days if we get 30c for several days in a row its a heat wave. I think its just warm enough for a swim. To my mind, a heatwave is several days over 40c. Used to happen regularly way back when.

We have built huge high density urban living areas that naturally act as heat banks and the people in those high rises have no option but to turn on the air con. There's something to be said for the "home among the gum trees" and the Queenslanders showed good building sense too.

I am a lot more concerned about pollution of our air, sea, land and rivers which in turn is affecting the whole environment including the flora & fauna.

I might also say that as well as being a blight on the landscape, the wind farms, solar farms and nuclear enegry create as much of a pollution problem as anything else because they wear out and need to be disposed of. So my thoughts are they are not sustainable.

Hewy54 · Senior Member

Peter 67 and msg
I find it amusing that there are often references to lack of power supply in SA.
Several years ago there was a major weather event that knocked out several key pylons. The resultant power outage was blamed on our closing of power stations.
I have lived at my current address in SA for the last 6 years and cannot remember a power outage of more than a few minutes in that period.

msg · Guru

Well Hewy you can blame the news for that. I have heard it several times. I guess it depends on what cause they are pushing.