Climate changed with no human impact for thousands of years. Correct. The cores prove that.

To say that proves climate change is not happening, as some like to do is, however, incorrect. It is not comparing the same things.

That was the contention of what I wrote, and I hold that to be logical and correct.

There are no accurate records of how and how much the climate changed in the past, nor how quickly it happened. There are only some generalised observations that have been analysed for a general picture. Now we have daily recorded information available, that is providing specific and detailed information. As the years pass, only then will the true picture emerge

I agree with you that improving the way we do things cannot do harm, whether climate change is real or no.

I am afraid in this thread, I do not see everyone agreeing something needs to be done, however. If they did all agree on the need for change, and only disagreed on the method, we would be well advanced in the quest for a better planet for future generations.

Recoup wrote:

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 2020!

Back in the 1970's when I was a uni student, one of the requirements of obtaining a degree in your chosen field was to include subjects outside that field. I decided to do a few subjects in geology as the head lecturer was a great bloke and also the assessment was mainly based on undertaking field work, a bit of rock recognition and an essay on plate tectonics.

Anyway, on one of our field trips we went to these coastal cliffs and at about 100 feet or more above the sea we dug out these cliff rocks and found fossils of crabs, fish and shells. They were everywhere and the lecturer informed us that the sea level would have been to at least this point in the distant past, several thousand years ago. The next field trip we went out to western NSW and to an open cut mine and did the same sort of excavations in the shale rock. Amongst other things, we found fish, shell and sea fossils although we were hundreds of miles from the nearest coast. The lecturer and his offsiders informed us that this would have been an inland sea thousands of years ago.

What was great about these trips was of a night we would go into the nearest town and have a few beers and something to eat and the lecturer would tell us about his travels. He had been on geological digs inside the Arctic Circle in Iceland, Greenland, Lapland and northern Finland. He told us about finding fossils of grapevines and other Mediterranean crops that dated to about 14th century AD, some 500-600 years ago.

This lecturer has gone on to be well known in Oz as well as overseas. He would tell us that the climate was continually changing and that he did not accept that it was man made. He told us the majority of the warming came from CO2 releases under the ocean floor, not from mainland and that although looking after the environment was paramount, it had no effect on the climate change.

Another thing he told us about was the ozone layer. At that time it was opening at an alarming rate over the South Pole with everyone blaming fluorocarbons. It was his prediction  that this would close. it now has.

I am certainly no climate scientist and like the idea of preserving the environment but do not really know whether the climate change is entirely man made.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 25th of March 2021 01:32:18 PM

DMaxer wrote:

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Back in the 1970's when I was a uni student, one of the requirements of obtaining a degree in your chosen field was to include subjects outside that field. I decided to do a few subjects in geology as the head lecturer was a great bloke and also the assessment was mainly based on undertaking field work, a bit of rock recognition and an essay on plate tectonics.

Anyway, on one of our field trips we went to these coastal cliffs and at about 100 feet or more above the sea we dug out these cliff rocks and found fossils of crabs, fish and shells. They were everywhere and the lecturer informed us that the sea level would have been to at least this point in the distant past, several thousand years ago. The next field trip we went out to western NSW and to an open cut mine and did the same sort of excavations in the shale rock. Amongst other things, we found fish, shell and sea fossils although we were hundreds of miles from the nearest coast. The lecturer and his offsiders informed us that this would have been an inland sea thousands of years ago.

What was great about these trips was of a night we would go into the nearest town and have a few beers and something to eat and the lecturer would tell us about his travels. He had been on geological digs inside the Arctic Circle in Iceland, Greenland, Lapland and northern Finland. He told us about finding fossils of grapevines and other Mediterranean crops that dated to about 14th century AD, some 500-600 years ago.

This lecturer has gone on to be well known in Oz as well as overseas. He would tell us that the climate was continually changing and that he did not accept that it was man made. He told us the majority of the warming came from CO2 releases under the ocean floor, not from mainland and that although looking after the environment was paramount, it had no effect on the climate change.

Another thing he told us about was the ozone layer. At that time it was opening at an alarming rate over the South Pole with everyone blaming fluorocarbons. It was his prediction  that this would close. it now has.

I am certainly no climate scientist and like the idea of preserving the environment but do not really know whether the climate change is entirely man made.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Thursday 25th of March 2021 01:32:18 PM

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 Well said DMaxter, I have similar views to yours, I did a layman's course in geology as a young man, it's remained an interest to this day.

Over the years I've worked in the mining industry, opal and mineral in the far North of SA, in my final years before retirement worked in the geology section at Olympic Dam.

Coober Pedy produces enormous numbers of fossil shells in the sandstone laid down during the Cretaceous period, these fossils occur in beds up to 50 meters underground, the whole of central Australia was once an inland sea, hard to imagine when you view it as the vast waterless area we see today.

The Cretaceous is defined as the period between 145.5 and 65.5 million years ago, as a rule thing move slowly geologically speaking, however as you say, geology provides an excellent window on the past environment.

What most don't understand is that Australia's last ice age was only about 20000 years ago, a mere moment in geological time, evidence of glaciation can still be seen at Hallett Cove just South of Adelaide.

Yep, the climate is in a constant state of flux, not saying we are not contributing, we obviously are, with a burgeoning population the word certainly does need to think seriously about the way we go about our living.

The movement of the techtonic plates and subduction is what causes the "inland" seas to be lifted. That's why the fossils are being found at many different altitudes. It's not, mainly, dies to sea level rise and fall. I'm surprised that some of you didn't learn this in geology. 

 

The "great acceleration" shows that most of the damage done by humans has been since the 70's. That's probably why the lecturer didn't believe in human effect on climate change in those days. I'd be very surprised that they'd still have the same opinion. Nearly all the geologist at Geoscience Australia, where I worked for a while, would laugh if they were told that humans didn't affect climate change. 

DMaxer my point is/was that I doubt it's as simple as blaming emissions/humans for everything that is supposedly going on. Too many folks try to take a very complicated subject and get a very simplistic view.

Maybe this is the reason why we think we have climate change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW16LGVPfIc

Australia is 10-12 years behind the rest of the worlds uptake of electric vehicles, according to e-mobility expert Dr Jake Whitehead. And he blames it on government. If they were serious about climate change, theyd be serious about the uptake of electric vehicles, he said of the governments approach. Sales figures in China are expected to reach about 3.7 million in 2021, whereas growth in Australia has been comparatively miniscule. Microsoft news 26/3/2021

Huh? Sales figures in China? 3.7million in 2021. Um what is their population? Have no idea but has to be at 1billion. compared to

Australia's 26million? Huh? 

But he or "they " the reporters got their magic word in  "Climate change".

-- Edited by msg on Friday 26th of March 2021 11:53:15 AM

bgt wrote:

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OK but where does the movements of the earths tectonic plates fit into the picture? The sea may, or may not, be rising relative to the rising, or lowering, of the earths tectonic plates. Confused? So in fact the sea level may be constant but the tectonic plates are the ones affecting sea levels. Now can humans stop that happening?

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 You misunderstand.

 

The fossils are layed down and the tectonic plate movement causes those fossils to be at higher altitudes over millions of years. The fossils being in high altitudes is because of tectonic plates movement. 

 

The affect of tectonic plates on sea level is miniscule over hundreds of years but climate change is affecting sea levels over decades.

 

Humans can't stop tectonic plate movements but they can help prevent sea level rising by addressing their affect on climate change.

 

Is not rocket science. 

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:

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 You misunderstand.

 

The fossils are layed down and the tectonic plate movement causes those fossils to be at higher altitudes over millions of years. The fossils being in high altitudes is because of tectonic plates movement. 

 

The affect of tectonic plates on sea level is miniscule over hundreds of years but climate change is affecting sea levels over decades.

 

Humans can't stop tectonic plate movements but they can help prevent sea level rising by addressing their affect on climate change.

 

Is not rocket science. 

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 Spot on Buzz, nicely explained.

The pic below may help those trying to understand why fossils occur in unexpected places.