Disgusting behaviour in the Australian Parliament House?

DMaxer · Guru

RE: Disgusting behaviour in the Australian Parliament House?

Rob Driver · Guru

I think this is pretty close to the explanation of what really happened.

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-22/four-corners-security-guard-brittany-higgins/13259262

To report her plight to the media two years later is concerning.
To remain in the office until 10 am on Saturday morning is a strange act for someone who was raped. She was visited by security guards on a couple of occassions during her stay.
To lay totally nude on the lounge for several hours is also concerning.
The grass stains on her dress are concerning as is her apparent compliance with going to the ministers office with he alleged rapist.

The police would assess this information and along with other statements make their decision.

I certainly do not condone rape or physical attack on anyone but this story seems strange that she did not claim rape when she was found nude, by security guards.
I feel if any female was found nude after an act of rape, then they would cry out for help at that time.
I agree somewhat with Montie is that they were both up to no good but they were willing participants.
It is a shame now that this young lady with the help of the media have the potential to destroy peoples careers.
My thoughts,

Regards

Angie

montie · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
Montie, on what facts is your detailed forensic examination of the situation based. Were you an eye witness? Are you involved in Parliament House security or a member of the police force.
Perhaps this analysis was determined after a discussion with others of similar cerebral capacity to your good self.

The facts are well documented.

The police investigated and took no action

Security found her in the minister's office apparently nude and no rape claims were made.

I don't think your services would be required as no charges were laid by the police.

I think this young lady may have lied herself into a corner.

bgt · Guru

The very sad thing is that the police are being ignored by those who see some political point scoring opportunities. With the help of the media.
There are careers being destroyed for what? A few headlines.

DMaxer · Guru

That is strange Montie. Comment and questions are presently paused in the national parliament as the police investigation is ongoing into the complaint that was made.

I think you need to get on the blower immediately to the authorities in Canberra and let them know they have got it all wrong and you have it all under control.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 27th of March 2021 10:58:25 AM

Greg 1 · Guru

Following on from the Four Corners interview, I am certainly starting to form the distinct impression that Linda Evans description of this girl as a lying cow may not be far from the truth.

DMaxer · Guru

I thought that Linda Evans was in that western on Tv, I think it was Big Valley.

Obviously you have formed your learned view after attending one of Montie's highly informative discussions on the factual situation he has discovered and its application to the present law.

The whole issue of it not being reported earlier is because there is an allegation that pressure was brought to bear on the young lady to remain silent.

I certainly hope that both Montie and you Greg have a safe journey on the spaceship when you decide to return from whatever planet you are presently living on and revisit Earth.

Magnarc · Guru

Buzz your reason for the large fonts is surely redundant unless every one adopts the same??????

Just sayin.

-- Edited by Magnarc on Saturday 27th of March 2021 01:46:21 PM

Greg 1 · Guru

Then DMaxer, just answer me one question. Why has this girl been so reluctant to have her alleged rapist charged, but is very happy to have her allegations, face and details spread across every media platform in the country? From what I currently understand, and correct me if I am wrong, the alleged perpetrator still has not been charged with any offence. Her story appears to be unravelling. If she had placed a formal complaint with the police prior to going to the media, then I would be firmly on her side. If the guy did rape her, none would be more happy than me to see him behind bars.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Britney Higgens is not the only disgusting thing going on in parliament house but people seem to be the only thing being discussed. The police will sort that out not people's opinions on a forum.

The real problem is the response by the government to all those allegations. The government's treating it as a political issue and not, what it really is, an attitude problem. There needs to be policies to encourage respect.

Greg 1 · Guru

Well the media and opposition made it a political issue. Both are looking for scapegoats as they usually do. True the government have not performed well with this issue but it's such a hot potatoe and everyone looking to hang draw and quarter someone, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

DMaxer · Guru

Greg you don't know if she was reluctant or not. Consider this, she did not go to the police because she says she was pressured from within. This was in the middle of an election campaign and would have brought them undone completely. Just for one moment, how do you think things would have gone for her with a Government minister and the party machine on her case. The fact that she went to the media may well demonstrate that she did not think she would be believed if the party decided to silence her. Why do you think all the allegations of backgrounding are now coming out. The poor girl is very young. How brave would you be to take on all the party heavies.

I don't know what happened, I wasn't there. I give people great credit for coming out and giving their account of what they say has happened. What would you have done if you were in the same situation as this poor girl?

In relation to the security people I know from experience that when I have had government contracts I have access to the building at all hours. Security is to let me in, not ask why I am there. I used to have a night out and then go back to the office and collect a brief to take home for the weekend to read. I would be let in by security and let out when I chose to leave.

It doesn't matter if she reported it to police or the security at that time. The real test at law is if there is any recent complaint. Had she told someone that in the circumstances she would have been likely to tell, such as relative or a friend.

I hope to heavens that you are never allowed to go on a jury.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Saturday 27th of March 2021 06:48:21 PM

Greg 1 · Guru

That's just the point I am making. By the time she went to the media she had well and truly left the government employment. Why didn't she go to the police then? Why even after it was all over the media, didn't she lodge an official complaint? Why did she have to almost be dragged kicking and screaming to lodge an official complaint when it was all over the media and there was not going to be anymore embarrassment for her or pressure from within. It just doesn't add up to me. Maybe I might make a good prosecutor? What do you reckon.

Greg 1 · Guru

Anyway, no matter what any of us believe, I am sure it will all come out in the wash, if she has finally lodged an official complaint, which some media stories suggest she has. Then it will be interesting to see the outcome of the police investigation and whether the bloke in question is charged and convicted.

montie · Guru

DMaxer wrote:

I thought that Linda Evans was in that western on Tv, I think it was Big Valley.

Obviously you have formed your learned view after attending one of Montie's highly informative discussions on the factual situation he has discovered and its application to the present law.

The whole issue of it not being reported earlier is because there is an allegation that pressure was brought to bear on the young lady to remain silent.

I certainly hope that both Montie and you Greg have a safe journey on the spaceship when you decide to return from whatever planet you are presently living on and revisit Earth.

smile blankstare

Had a very important appointment with the golf course so unfortunately missed my trip into space.

No golf courses up there so I'm back home!

Nothing wrong with bonking on the boss's desk after hours.....just don't get caught!

DMaxer · Guru

Just for one moment Greg, completely disregard anything that the young lady has said and look at what has been reported. Two people attend their workplace at 2am and are admitted by security. Both are intoxicated and a short time later the male leaves the building alone at about 3am. The female is discovered naked by security at 4am and then leaves at 10am.

On the Monday, the male has his employment terminated and the female is reported to have been offered sexual assault counselling and is reported to have not wanted to report matter to police. If there was no recent complaint, why was she offered counselling and why was it reported that she did not want police involvement.

About two years later after listening to Grace Tame's speech she goes to the media and tells of her struggles and alleges that she was discouraged from reporting it to the police as it would impact on her career.

Do you think it was odd that he left her there alone. Do you think it was odd that Minister in explaining her comments about "lying cow" reiterated that the young lady was offered counselling. Do you think it was odd that the males was dismissed yet she retained her job and was offered counselling. Does it not appear that this is not recent invention but a fully supported account that she reported something happening to her that prompted a minister to recommend counselling and a minister's statement that she told the young lady to report it to police. It seems the only issue in contest is whether the young lady was intimidated by the process or machinations and was too fearful to do so. I don't know where you get this "almost dragged kicking and screaming to report to police". Do you think it odd that a minister can't answer questions and goes off on sick leave if it was just two drunks coming back to the office?

As to whether you would make a good prosecutor who am I to say. A prosecutor has the duty to present all evidence to a court whether it assists or has the potential to diminish his case. The only proviso is if the prosecutor believes a witness is intentionally lying then he does not call that witness but informs the defence of the witness's assertions.

Just watch this unravel now it has the public's attention.

DMaxer · Guru

montie wrote:
DMaxer wrote:
I thought that Linda Evans was in that western on Tv, I think it was Big Valley.
Obviously you have formed your learned view after attending one of Montie's highly informative discussions on the factual situation he has discovered and its application to the present law.
The whole issue of it not being reported earlier is because there is an allegation that pressure was brought to bear on the young lady to remain silent.
I certainly hope that both Montie and you Greg have a safe journey on the spaceship when you decide to return from whatever planet you are presently living on and revisit Earth.

Had a very important appointment with the golf course so unfortunately missed my trip into space.
No golf courses up there so I'm back home!
Nothing wrong with bonking on the boss's desk after hours.....just don't get caught!

Do you think consent or capacity to consent plays any part in it Montie?

montie · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
montie wrote:
DMaxer wrote:
I thought that Linda Evans was in that western on Tv, I think it was Big Valley.
Obviously you have formed your learned view after attending one of Montie's highly informative discussions on the factual situation he has discovered and its application to the present law.
The whole issue of it not being reported earlier is because there is an allegation that pressure was brought to bear on the young lady to remain silent.
I certainly hope that both Montie and you Greg have a safe journey on the spaceship when you decide to return from whatever planet you are presently living on and revisit Earth.

Had a very important appointment with the golf course so unfortunately missed my trip into space.
No golf courses up there so I'm back home!
Nothing wrong with bonking on the boss's desk after hours.....just don't get caught!
Do you think consent or capacity to consent plays any part in it Montie?

I doubt they went to the minister's office to play chess on the desk! blankstare

dorian · Guru

DMaxer wrote:
A prosecutor has the duty to present all evidence to a court whether it assists or has the potential to diminish his case. The only proviso is if the prosecutor believes a witness is intentionally lying then he does not call that witness but informs the defence of the witness's assertions.

I am intrigued as to how someone could lie unintentionally. I always thought that lying implied intent.

As for presenting all the evidence, there are plenty of cases where the prosecution has withheld evidence that would have helped the defendant. After all, our system of jurisprudence is adversarial, not inquisitorial.

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

My view is that this case in particular has turned entirely political by certain political party's with there own agenda and is achieving this by the unending pressure the media put on one side and at the same time perform very little questioning of the complainant.

I can not see in a country with a population as small as Australia, that anyone might receive a totally fair trial due to the behaviour of the media and their bias and one sided reporting.
Media needs to have some basic restrictions placed upon their reporting of alleged crime but to achieve that would be the downfall of any political party.
We all know how different groups within the media will back at least one or other of the political party's.

I am probably not on my own here but I am sick and tired of the unending reports on something that should only be a matter for the police.

The media should let the courts and the judicial system do its job, and then, report the story.

dorian · Guru

The complainant is the one who is seeking media attention and publicity.

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

dorian wrote:
The complainant is the one who is seeking media attention and publicity.

Absolutely true and therein lies the problem.......is it she who wants a media circus or is she being cleverly manipulated by those with another agenda.

DMaxer · Guru

Probably a poor choice of words by me, Dorian. The distinction I was trying to make is whether a witness is lying or is just mistaken. Because a witness has a different recollection from others is not an issue. The prosecution must still present that witness as it is their duty to proceed fairly, not to be zealots. If they feel a witness is lying they still must disclose that witness's statement to the defence in the brief and advise the defence they will not be calling that witness as they deem the witness not to be a witness of truth. that allows the defence to call that witness should they wish and the prosecution then has the opportunity to cross examine.

There is no way the prosecution can withhold evidence from the defence that affects the prosecution case to its detriment. The conviction would be set aside on appeal on this ground. Look at the Guildford Four prosecution in the UK for example.

DMaxer · Guru

How far do you think she would have got if she went to the politicians for support, Clarky? Maybe she doesn't trust the police or thinks they may be politically compromised. Who knows. It will all come out though as this lot unravels.

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

DMaxer wrote:
How far do you think she would have got if she went to the politicians for support, Clarky? Maybe she doesn't trust the police or thinks they may be politically compromised. Who knows. It will all come out though as this lot unravels.

To answer your question fairly, she would have got just a far as she has got now.
I dont know how a woman would feel, but if I were a woman and found naked on the lounge of my bosss office some hours after an alleged rape I would be calling rape at that moment even if I had lay there for two hours in fear of what may happen to me.
Apparently the female security guard had done a welfare check on her and I would imagine that it would be at this time that I would claim the alleged rape, and not two years later via the media.

You are correct in saying that will all come out as the story unravels but the story as may be developed two years down the track may not be the same story that would have unravelled had she claimed and reported the alleged rape on the night. I dont think anyone but the two in the office that night will ever know the real truth.

bgt · Guru

Because of the media coverage and the politics this case will never have an end. Those who believe or not believe have now made up their minds. I doubt that given the last weeks circus there will never be a fair trial even if it get to court. In the meantime 95% of the population simply don't care.

Rob Driver · Guru

The beat up by the media with this case is nothing but disgusting.

If you listened to the reports even on the TV reports apparently the current wave of libs and nationals ranks is full of rapists and molesters.

If the media, just for one day, reported on Brittneys antics as reported by the security guard in my post above then the entire public opinion would be different.

Don't get me wrong, I am a woman and the act of rape or any assault is abhorrent but I would be damned if it was me in that office who was raped I would be fighting for my life and not laying there unclothed for hours before I got dressed and went home.
My suggestion is that the minister was called to her office on the Saturday morning to talk the the girl and probably offer advice that might help to save Brittneys dignity.
She apparently took this path by having the male staffer sacked and it is only now that her future career became threatened.
It is not working how she hoped so lets get the media via the opposition involved.

History has shown that there has been many sexually based misdemeanours and crimes that have been committed by all sides of parliament, but currently according to our media, the opposition parties are more pure than the driven snow.
Many misdemeanours and crimes involving men and women in relationships in other employment workplaces are occurring regularly but these alleged actions go mostly unreported unless of course, it is a sportsperson or at worst, a murder is the result.

We should all treat the media with the contempt they deserve and I totally agree with Clarky Stu above that their disgusting antics do have an effect on upcoming trials.

Regards

Angie

DMaxer · Guru

Does the fact that this type of behaviour occurs elsewhere or that the media have given this a thorough workout diminish the seriousness of the alleged offending?

If the young lady was unconscious through alcohol consumption, does that give implied consent?

If one was charged with robbing a bank, does one get exonerated or have the charge lessened for claiming that bank robbery has been going on for centuries and lots of others have done it?

It is all very well for some people to moralise about what they would have done. How do they know how they would have acted if it has never happened to them. One can say how they would hope they would have acted, but is that the same as knowing for sure what they would have done. It is very easy to take the high moral ground when one is only an observer and not the person directly involved.

What a wonderful world this would be if the media did not report things that may have happened. We could all feel very comfortable then, couldn't we.

I wonder if the people who wish to disbelieve this young lady base their disbelief on the basis the allegation is against one of the party that they support politically. Perhaps if the allegation was against a member of the other side their support would overwhelming.

-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 28th of March 2021 10:13:31 AM

-- Edited by DMaxer on Sunday 28th of March 2021 10:47:08 AM

bgt · Guru

DMaxer if you put aside any political bias and simply look at the "facts", as presented by the media, something smells off. The alleged victim made the terrible mistake of going to the media rather than the police. As soon as that happened the average Australian smelt a rat. Even the ABC and Sky news have reported anomalies in the whole saga that don't make sense to the average Australian. Australian's are a skeptical mob.

The sad thing now is that no matter what the outcome is there will still be folks who don't accept that out come. The politics and media have destroyed all chances of this being resolved in a way that puts it all to rest.

I'm not making a judgement either way. All I'm pointing out is that the water is now so muddy no one can see the bottom.

TheHeaths · Guru

I agree with bgt on this that we have a situation now where the outcome will always be questioned.

What I will say though is this. For those saying what they would and wouldnt do, and what the girl should and shouldnt have done, I am afraid until you face the problem you have little idea what you would do.

We all know how we would want to react to any situation given time, and the clear light of consideration, but in the actual moment of any intense situation, when instinct and adrenaline take over, we dont know what we would do until we do it.

The unfortunate part of this to me is that we even have to think alleged incidents like those coming to light over the past month are suggested to have happened in our major house of law and government. The fact that they are then politicised for gain is especially cynical.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Sunday 28th of March 2021 11:43:07 AM

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Sunday 28th of March 2021 02:26:56 PM