orid wrote:

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oldbloke wrote:

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Originally, from the web site you suggested. A copy paste.

Oldbloke thanks for the quote ,but do you realise it is number 3 of the 8 Myths that is what it is saying . 

3 - You can decrease the tow-ball download by fitting a weight distribution hitch    ( 3rd MYTH)

A weight distribution hitch (WDH) is a wonderful device which does exactly what its name implies. Its powerful leveraging effect provides a better distribution of weight across all axles resulting in a level ride height for tow vehicle and trailer, which is particularly important in maintaining effective steering and front wheel braking in the tow vehicle. However, just because a WDHs leveraging effect (often compared to raising the long handles of a wheelbarrow) allows this ride levelling to occur,{{ does not change.))) the amount of weight on the tow-ball prior to fitting the WDH

day 22nd of April 2021 05:31:07 PM

-- Edited by orid on Thursday 22nd of April 2021 05:32:21 PM

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So does everybody now agree that a WDH does not change ball download?

Which of course it doesn't.

bentaxlebabe wrote:

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Yobarr,

Actually I dont Jest.

Does the weight come off the TBW and Rear Axle of the tow vehicle to the value of the TBW when a WDH is adjusted correctly as per the video and the HR fact sheet and this same value of weight is transferred both to the front axle of the tow vehicle and the van axle group......or not?

Regards

Rob

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 For the hundredth time,NO weight is removed from the towball when a WDH is tensioned...NONE.However,if you could again ask your question in an unambiguous manner, I will be more than happy to help you understand weights.Cheers

oldbloke wrote:

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orid wrote:

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orid wrote:

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oldbloke wrote:

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Originally, from the web site you suggested. A copy paste.

Oldbloke thanks for the quote ,but do you realise it is number 3 of the 8 Myths that is what it is saying . 

3 - You can decrease the tow-ball download by fitting a weight distribution hitch    ( 3rd MYTH)

A weight distribution hitch (WDH) is a wonderful device which does exactly what its name implies. Its powerful leveraging effect provides a better distribution of weight across all axles resulting in a level ride height for tow vehicle and trailer, which is particularly important in maintaining effective steering and front wheel braking in the tow vehicle. However, just because a WDHs leveraging effect (often compared to raising the long handles of a wheelbarrow) allows this ride levelling to occur,{{ does not change.))) the amount of weight on the tow-ball prior to fitting the WDH

day 22nd of April 2021 05:31:07 PM

-- Edited by orid on Thursday 22nd of April 2021 05:32:21 PM

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Orid, you need to read what a type. I have never said it changed or disappeared in to thin air. ( you and yobbo are just verbaling me)

The original graphic simply indicates that the TBW is no longer measured under the jockey wheel. TBW is now transfered to mainly the front axle(s). I mean its pretty simple mate. Sheesh. This is what I have stated many times. (Boring)

I guess pride is forcing yourself and yobbo to continue to ague the point with just BS inorder to save face. After all you have been pending this BS for all to see on the internet.  

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 Towball weight of a hitched van cannot be measured at all...jockey wheel or anywhere else.

oldbloke wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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oldbloke wrote:

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oldbloke wrote:

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Originally, from the web site you suggested. A copy paste.

3 - You can decrease the tow-ball download by fitting a weight distribution hitch
A weight distribution hitch (WDH) is a wonderful device which does exactly what its name implies. Its powerful leveraging effect provides a better distribution of weight across all axles resulting in a level ride height for tow vehicle and trailer, which is particularly important in maintaining effective steering and front wheel braking in the tow vehicle. However, just because a WDHs leveraging effect (often compared to raising the long handles of a wheelbarrow) allows this ride levelling to occur, the amount of weight on the tow-ball prior to fitting the WDH does not change.

4 - Fitting stiffer rear springs to your tow vehicle has the same effect as a WDH
The message about fitting uprated rear suspension on vehicles gets confused between GVM (gross vehicle mass) and GCM (gross combined mass) by some well-meaning owners. Numerous aftermarket suspension companies offer well-engineered upgrades which can increase a vehicles payload capacity, and therefore its GVM. Stiffer rear suspension can also reduce rear-end squat under a towing load, but the most effective way to eliminate the nose-lifting effect of a heavy trailer on a tow vehicle is with a quality WDH.

 

1. Nobody is saying the TBW just evaporates into thin air. We are saying its distributed or moved. Yobbo just tries to insinuate we are saying that.

 

2. Best method is WDH. Not heavier springs. TBW stays on the rear with heavy springs

 

In both cases he agrees with me..

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 That's right. #3.  I am in agreeance with him. See the "bold" section.

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 Hi Neil...you may be interested to note that the words that I have highlighted in red are EXACTLY what I have been saying all along? Does this mean that you've finally realised that I DO know what I'm talking about? Cheers

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 So Yobbo, are you going to stop verbalising me. In bold so you can read it. I have never said it changed. Show me where I said that. If fact your insulting to suggest it. You did not understand the graphic from HR. 

 

Show me where I said that.

Show me where I said that.

Show me where I said that.

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 This may well confuse you,but if towball weight has been moved,it is clear that the weight on the towball has changed.Are you sure you're not simply being mischievous,as little you post on THIS topic  makes sense? Usually your posts are interesting,but you appear well and truly lost here? Cheers

oldbloke wrote:

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No doubt about it yobbo. Your a troll.
Transferred or moved or for that mater distributed as i stated many times is not changed in the context you are using.

Troll
Trouble maker.
Argumentive.

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 The word you seek probably is "argumentative",but all I ever do is present detailed advice on weights to help those with little,or no,understanding of same.If ever I post something that I am not 100%  sure of,I will preface it with something along the lines of "I believe",or similar.STILL you seem not to accept that TBW cannot be "Transferred" or "moved" without that weight being taken off the towball? If that weight is "moved" or "transferred" simple logic would dictate that the weight on the towball has changed? A WDH does NOT change towball weight...ever.Period.Cheers 

Sorry Yobbo.

I stand corrected

Troll.
Trouble maker.
Argumentative.

But its 100% correct now. Unlike yourself mate.

Next time learn to read what HR shows you relating to how TBW can't be weighed on the jockey wheel when the van is connected to the tow ball of a car. Sheesh  Its preferred to verbalising people and then starting an argument in an effort to save face. 

And for how many months did you rant on about how this graphic and the people who posted it were saying that there was no TBW when the WDH was connected. Sheesh. Pretty hard to weigh the TBW if nothing is on the scale. Ha, Ha. How smart are you. Ha. Ha. Learn to read. Learn to analyse and think instead of non stop copy paste.

For how many months did you get it wrong? 6, 12?  How many times did you miss quote honest members here? Dozens, or more  100s? Yet you are too weak to apologise. 

Edit:

Yobbo, why don't you call HR and tell them their document is wrong. Tell them to add 220kg where the 0s are under the jockey even of it isn't on, or is hanging in mid air. ( because TBW never changes) Please document their response here mate. Ha, Ha.

Whenarewethere wrote:

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Putting aside the issue of the towball load. 

Mass is being transferred to the end of the structure like in a building.

Each of the components are under a different stress.

The way the towbar is attached to the vehicle will have different stresses. Was it designed for these for these different stresses.

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 You are,of course,quite right.All a WDH does is create what is effectively a stiff-arm from the car's front axle,through the hitch point,to the van's axle group.All fine and dandy on nice flat roads,but can you imagine the stresses on ALL components when the vehicles pass over uneven surfaces,or even servo entrances.In extreme circumstances you can get a situation where all weight is carried by only two axle groups.As far as manufacturers saying that a WDH must be used above XXXkg,that is probably because they realise that the rear axle on their car is not really up to the task of carrying the  extra weight imposed by the high towball weights,so they cover their rears.If anything awry happens,their "out" is "Oh,but you didn't use a WDH". Buying a suitable vehicle in the first place avoids the problem. Cheers

Well, I am surprised that this topic is still alive.

I missed yesterday as I was out of range of internet for most of it.

I do note that Yobarr has still not answered questions I asked back a couple of pages.

I also note that he is advising Greg1 to contact the author of publications that he (Yobarr) quoted in a blind attempt to support his argument.
At the same time on the other hand, I note that he is not prepared to contact Hayman Reese and tell them that their weigh bridge publication is incorrect.

A very simple but interesting article was put up by Rob Bentaxle with the rear wheels being removed from the Oldsmobile Toronado which, after reading, I assumed that this may put paid to any argument.
This wasn't the case. Maybe the Oldsmobile had a secret dolly wheel under the rear to hold it up which we weren't told about.

The OP, old bloke, has spent the last 24 hours defending his stance even after continual bombardment of screenshots taken from previous topics that we all have already seen. I also see that spell check on his computer is still correcting yobarr to yobbo. Mine does the same.

So with the start of a new day could we please have Yobarr explain to us how the steer axle of the tow vehicle weight increased and the van axle group weight increased as proven conclusively on a weigh bridge with the use of a WDH while as he claims, the Tow Ball Weight still remains the same.
Can he explain that if his statement is correct then why doesn't the GCM of the vehicle and van show an increase in weight if, as he claims, the TBW remains when a WDH is connected.

Waiting....waiting...

Clarky 1 wrote:

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Well, I am surprised that this topic is still alive.

I missed yesterday as I was out of range of internet for most of it.

I do note that Yobarr has still not answered questions I asked back a couple of pages.

I also note that he is advising Greg1 to contact the author of publications that he (Yobarr) quoted in a blind attempt to support his argument.
At the same time on the other hand, I note that he is not prepared to contact Hayman Reese and tell them that their weigh bridge publication is incorrect.

A very simple but interesting article was put up by Rob Bentaxle with the rear wheels being removed from the Oldsmobile Toronado which, after reading, I assumed that this may put paid to any argument.
This wasn't the case. Maybe the Oldsmobile had a secret dolly wheel under the rear to hold it up which we weren't told about.

The OP, old bloke, has spent the last 24 hours defending his stance even after continual bombardment of screenshots taken from previous topics that we all have already seen. I also see that spell check on his computer is still correcting yobarr to yobbo. Mine does the same.

So with the start of a new day could we please have Yobarr explain to us how the steer axle of the tow vehicle weight increased and the van axle group weight increased as proven conclusively on a weigh bridge with the use of a WDH while as he claims, the Tow Ball Weight still remains the same.
Can he explain that if his statement is correct then why doesn't the GCM of the vehicle and van show an increase in weight if, as he claims, the TBW remains when a WDH is connected.

Waiting....waiting...

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 Ding dong your wrong blind Freddy would understand that when the van is connected the towball weight becomes part of the tow vehicles weight therefore if the the front and rear axle don't exceed their individual weight limits then they cannot exceed the GVM, because there is no way your can weigh the ball after the van and tow vehicle are connected. In this configuration all that matters is GCM, and axle weights. The action of engaging a weight distridution system weight is distributed along chassis of the tow vehicle and caravan.

The part that most people fail to understand is when a van is connected to the tow vehicle and the front of the van and the rear of the tow vehicle drops, the actual towball weight has increased, the engaging of the WDH actually levels off both vehicles thus returning weight back to the axle groups, hense the small amount of weight returned to the vans axle group.

It is a nonsence argue about towball weight except when the caravan is unconnected and level.

Greg 1 wrote:

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To be fair to yobarr, he is correct here. The actual downforce being exerted by the van onto the car doesn't change. Gravity remains the same. If it were possible to place a load cell under the drawbar without measuring some of the car's weight, we would see this is so. Exactly like my analogy of the roof truss. You may have altered the way the load path is distributed but you still have the same load being applied. The walls are taking less load now we have the column in place as the column is taking a percentage, but the load is still the same. The roof hasn't suddenly lost weight just because we have added the column. What the WDH does is just the same. It just shifts the load path a little so that the front axle of the car and to a lesser extent, the van's axle group, carry more of the load. The load still has not altered. HR do not show a load on their chart simply because it is impossible to accurately measure this once the van is connected to the car. I know that this can be a bit hard to get your head around but keep thinking of the roof truss and you will get the idea. What I do not like is articles, that are written by someone who obviously has little idea, who quotes standards that they have little understanding of if they have read it at all, and making outlandish claims that have little basis in fact, being used to bolster an argument.

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 Yep, the problem still mains that because yobbo didn't understand the HR document he keeps verbalising members trying to say we think it disappears into thin air. ( remember yobbo, its a HR document, not one made up by a member) While yobbo continues to do this the argument/discussion will continue to be circular.

In addition it would appear he still can't add up.