The whole of Sydney is now in lockdown....

bgt · Guru

The whole of Sydney is now in lockdown....

Plain Truth · Guru

Dicko1,please show me where these graphs are rubbish,they are from the Govt.I see you also resort to name calling.

-- Edited by Plain Truth on Sunday 27th of June 2021 03:26:34 PM

Rob Driver · Guru

Plain Truth wrote:
Yes ,we have a crisis, look at the death rate it is HORRIFIC.

You cant be serious.

Have you actually checked the figures of any country in the world where this Covid pandemic has gotten out of control.

You must realise that we have managed to keep the deaths in our country to around 1000 so far, but once again there is another outbreak.

As I type, parts of Darwin are now in lockdown. You could bet your hard earned that the virus was brought into Darwin by visitors.

You can also bet your hard earned that the only way open to us all to prevent the spread of this virus is to limit people movement.

This new Delta strain is reported to be extremely contagious.

Wether it be good luck or good management we in Aus have kept the spread to a minimum considering that we as a nation are battling a very poor and inefficient quarantine system as well as we have the constant threat of overseas travellers repeatedly bringing this disease into our country.

If we do what you and some others want a just deal with it you would find the figures on your graph above would be in the tens of thousands.

Regards

Rob

Plain Truth · Guru

It is not my graph you are looking at, it is from the govt.It is the graph for Australia. No deaths this year in Australia from Covid.

I can't help it if it doesn't fit in to what people's expectations of what the crisis should be.

dorian · Guru

Plain Truth wrote:
It is not my graph you are looking at, it is from the govt.It is the graph for Australia. No deaths this year in Australia from Covid.
I can't help it if it doesn't fit in to what people's expectations of what the crisis should be.

The fact that this country's pandemic response has not been managed by naysaying morons is the very reason that you can whine in relative safety.

Are We Lost · Guru

There is part of the graph discussion I agree with. If we had larger numbers in the community then the deaths would be higher and much more concerning. Good management and our easily closed country borders have helped with that. But our current approach can't continue forever.

What I don't agree with is ...... Bentaxlebabe wrote " ....... the only way open to us all to prevent the spread of this virus is to limit people movement. ....."

No, no, no. Not the only way at all. We have to learn to live with it without lockdowns. Do you think we are going to eliminate it? Do you expect us to have continued lockdowns for generations? At what point do we need to accept the risk? Hopefully, better treatment methods will soon be discovered so we are able to manage it better. Mix that with better focus on reducing the spread .... masks, stay home if any similar symptoms, tracking. Some of these may be a bit inconvenient, but OK by me for the benefits.

In the meantime, widespread vaccinations will reduce the spread, so the sooner that happens the better. Longer term, maybe vaccinations will be routine for those at risk, as flu vaccine is now for some. Don't want the vaccine? Bear the risk.

msg · Guru

I think it might be good to wait to accept the risk until a large proportion of the world's population is vaccinated. and accept lockdowns within Australia until Australians are are mostly vaccinated.

Then the risk is manageable.

-- Edited by msg on Sunday 27th of June 2021 04:49:34 PM

Plain Truth · Guru

dorian wrote:
Plain Truth wrote:
It is not my graph you are looking at, it is from the govt.It is the graph for Australia. No deaths this year in Australia from Covid.
I can't help it if it doesn't fit in to what people's expectations of what the crisis should be.
The fact that this country's pandemic response has not been managed by naysaying morons is the very reason that you can whine in relative safety.

I don't disagree with lockdowns I accept them and go with the flow.Had two trips cancelled because of lockdowns.

But there is a lot over reaction and scare mongering.

As for anti vaxers .I said from the start I am not against vaccines,but I am waiting, as most vaccines take yrs of trials to be cleared up to 9 to 15 yrs.this was rushed .

Good to see you name calling again.

bgt · Guru

I have asked this question a number of times and folks just keep avoiding an answer. So again I asks. At what number of infections of covid do we go back to 'normal'? Keep in mind that we will never beat it. It will always be somewhere. Or should we become another hermit country like North Korea? You can't hide under the bed and just hope it all goes away. We have to learn to live with and not continually go into lockdown.

Whenarewethere · Guru

We will not go into lockdown when a State kingdom collapses at one of the next kingdoms' fight over the local throne!

The Belmont Bear · Guru

Yesterday the police had a checkpoint set up on the Pacific Hwy just south of Swansea ( I dont know if they were also doing the same thing out on the M1) but they were trying to intercept people refusing to follow the lock down rules and attempting to come into the Hunter from the restricted areas. I also dont like the fact that the NRL are moving matches from Sydney to Newcastle starting with the Roosters and the Storm this Thursday and now there is even talk of playing the 3rd state of orign here. When are they going to get it through their heads that (unlike the Qid premier) most people in this city don't want the risk that comes with having those games played here.. . Funny how the regional areas of NSW are ignored by the state of greater Sydney until they need something ..........

On the positive side I went shopping at a local Woolies this morning and there was 100% compliance to mask wearing by both the customers and staff. Best of all there appeared to be none of that ridiculous panic buying that happened last time, all the shelves seem to be well stocked - I took the opportunity to grab a couple hundred loo rolls just in case people do start with that stupid hoarding again.. :)

BB

Whenarewethere · Guru

Just watching Tour de France. In the ad break a holiday ad for South Australia.

Think I'm stuck in Sydney!

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

I am always curios what statistics are involved.

So with the 910 deaths, were they by COVID or with COVID - just askin' - there is a BIG difference

dorian · Guru

bgt wrote:
Dicko 1 what's wrong with the graphs that Plain Truth posted? They are facts are they not? Should we ignore the facts and just act on our fears? Some folks need to get a grip on themselves. What's wrong with putting everything into perspective?

If every time we see a problem we go into a panic then we will achieve nothing. Covid is a problem. What we need is a solution. Not panic and fear.

Why is it that you seem to always dismiss a lockdown as panic? McGowan in WA has the right approach -- act decisively and promptly, not take a wait-and-see attitude. That's prudence, not panic. Panic is what happens when you sit and watch the disaster unfold before taking action. It's too bad that someone like him isn't running NSW, or Australia for that matter.

bgt · Guru

Dorian you you amaze me with your ability to read between the lines or interpret posts to suit your view of the world.

Rob Driver · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
There is part of the graph discussion I agree with. If we had larger numbers in the community then the deaths would be higher and much more concerning. Good management and our easily closed country borders have helped with that. But our current approach can't continue forever.

What I don't agree with is ...... Bentaxlebabe wrote " ....... the only way open to us all to prevent the spread of this virus is to limit people movement. ....."

No, no, no. Not the only way at all. We have to learn to live with it without lockdowns. Do you think we are going to eliminate it? Do you expect us to have continued lockdowns for generations? At what point do we need to accept the risk? Hopefully, better treatment methods will soon be discovered so we are able to manage it better. Mix that with better focus on reducing the spread .... masks, stay home if any similar symptoms, tracking. Some of these may be a bit inconvenient, but OK by me for the benefits.

In the meantime, widespread vaccinations will reduce the spread, so the sooner that happens the better. Longer term, maybe vaccinations will be routine for those at risk, as flu vaccine is now for some. Don't want the vaccine? Bear the risk.

My view is probably controversial to some but Covid came to this country from overseas. It most certainly did not originate in Australia.

We could have kept our country virus free by preventing anyone coming in from overseas.

We didn't do that and as such we are now subject to this virus country wide on a daily basis.

OK so we are stuck with people being permitted to travel both in and out of the country. Some of this travel maybe necessary but on the other hand a lot of it could have been restricted or prevented.

Every case of Covid in Aus is because we had someone bring it in from overseas in the first instance.

I am afraid that we collectively are not able to learn to live with it, not unless we prevent people from coming into our country from overseas. We will never learn to live with it without creating the same disaster as is happening in other countries who have treated this pandemic with complacency.

Bearing all this in mind the most effective way to stop the spread is to stop the unnecessary movement of people particularly people coming in from overseas hot spots.

Regards

Rob

bgt · Guru

Rob it won't ever happen. You simply can't stop all inbound freight be it by air or sea. So the only solution is to manage it and learn to live with it. 3 cases in QLD and a few million folks now have to wear masks. Over reaction?

Rob Driver · Guru

bgt wrote:
Rob it won't ever happen. You simply can't stop all inbound freight be it by air or sea. So the only solution is to manage it and learn to live with it. 3 cases in QLD and a few million folks now have to wear masks. Over reaction?

bgt,

I mentioned nothing about freight and I don't believe that any outbreak has been traced to a parcel. Every outbreak we have had can be traced back to an overseas visitor or resident coming back in.

Controlling unnecessary international travel would be a huge part of correct management as would the implementation of proper quarantine facilities.

Because we refuse to restrict international travel then this results in our internal population being placed under travel restrictions and other stop gap measures in an attempt to keep it under control.

I could easily predict the result should all Australians be asked by a poll, would they rather close international borders so that our country could become Covid free until all countries are on top of the pandemic.

I did say this

*Some of this travel maybe necessary but on the other hand a lot of it could have been restricted or prevented.*

Regards

Rob

peter67 · Guru

Good post Rob agree with you 100%, if the govt had stuck to it's guns and not listened to the bleeding hearts brigade re compassionate grounds etc it would have saved business owners billions already. Just when are they going to treat overseas flight crews as mobile petri dishes and isolate/supervise them properly??

bgt · Guru

Rob the hole in your logic is that covid may well be here to stay. Then what?
Add to that the number of crew members on commercial shipping. How about airline crew? Politicians and public servants. How about the military?

The answer is not locking everyone up. The answer is managing the response to an outbreak. Sadly some governments take the simple option of lockdown. Qld has 3 cases today. Only one a mystery and the other 2 are already isolated. So in affect SE Qld is now under restrictions because of 1 case. 4+ million with restrictions for 1 community case!

And in a year or two there's a new virus. Do we go through it all again?

Rob Driver · Guru

bgt,

If isolation of just one person who is infected saves others then it is worth it.

You say we all should deal with it..well there is a pic put up on a social media site this morning by CH 9 of scores of people ignoring current requests.
This is why we as a country just cant be left to sort this out ourselves.

All governments are asking us to get tested and isolate until the results are known and they ask that if you feel unwell or have been to venues where infected people to do the same. It is about protection of us all.
While your decision to roam around with a couldnt care less attitude toward the virus is your rite, it is irresponsible toward the majority of Australians who are trying to do the right thing.

Just one person could infect hundreds in a very short time.do you remember what happened in Victoria when 800 people lost their lives.

I hope you aren't that one person.

Your attitude of to allow international travel, not to wear masks, not to lock down and generally being *anti* everything poses a threat to all Aussies who are just trying to do the right thing.

Regards

Rob

bgt · Guru

Rob show me where I said I want to 'roam around with a couldn't care less attitude'?

Folks here amaze me how they read between the lines and twist a post to suite their view of the world. I have NEVER said any such thing. I have pointed out the practicalities of certain actions. And rather than address those actions you, and others, twist a post to smear the posters just to impress others.

I have simply promoted the fact that we will, at sometime, have to learn to life with covid just as we have with many many other threats to our health.

Now I look forward to you, and others, again reading something into the above just so you can win a few brownies points.

Rob Driver · Guru

bgt wrote:
Rob show me where I said I want to 'roam around with a couldn't care less attitude'?

Folks here amaze me how they read between the lines and twist a post to suite their view of the world. I have NEVER said any such thing. I have pointed out the practicalities of certain actions. And rather than address those actions you, and others, twist a post to smear the posters just to impress others.

I have simply promoted the fact that we will, at sometime, have to learn to life with covid just as we have with many many other threats to our health.

Now I look forward to you, and others, again reading something into the above just so you can win a few brownies points.

bgt,

My generalised comments are from your many comments over several topics that you have posted since Covid became evident in Australia.

You may treat the pandemic lightheartedly but I am going to assume that you haven't lost a much loved family member to Covid 19.

I am going to keep this pretty simple from here in as much that if our govt had even applied some form of control of who comes into this country and actually provided quarantine stations that work then our family member and hundreds of others may still be alive.

You dont believe in lockdowns, you consider mask wearing unnecessary, you support international travel, you discount advice from health ministers as an over reaction, are you vaccinated or in the wait and see group?? Maybe that is why I considered you to be roaming around with a couldn't care less attitude.

No one knows that next person they stand next to in a shop maybe the person that transmits the Covid 19 virus to you. Our collective State Premiers recommend masks for a good reason.

I consider you as part of the problem.

And you ask about someone twisting what is posted well here is what you said when I suggested restricting overseas travel.

*Rob it won't ever happen. You simply can't stop all inbound freight be it by air or sea. So the only solution is to manage it and learn to live with it.*

I guess that is OK because it supports your case.

The fact is I did not say that we should stop all inbound freight

Regards

Rob

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Monday 28th of June 2021 02:08:36 PM

-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Monday 28th of June 2021 02:12:25 PM

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

There was a study done (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00978-8/fulltext) that showed those countries that went for elimination of SARS-CoV2 were economically better of than those countries that tried for minimisation. It also prevented more deaths and hospital cases.

SARS-CoV2 has mutated into a more deadly and transmissible Delta version that will require more immediate lockdowns to control. We need to lockdown whenever there is an outbreak, vaccinate everyone and then open up the borders. We may not achieve elimination of SARS-CoV2 but by using these methods we may be able to nudge it into less severe version similar to what's happened with other coronaviruses. Otherwise the virus could become worse. Those people who are refusing to get vaccinated are risking the lives of everyone. Hopefully, they will be eliminated before they cause too much damage.

Are We Lost · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
........ We need to lockdown whenever there is an outbreak, .........

This is the part I have most concerns with. While I accept the current lockdown for Greater Sydney, amongst other places, it simply CAN NOT CONTINUE forevever.

At some point we have to accept that the virus is here to stay and we have to live with it and return to a more normal life. You mentioned vaccines. But while these help, they do not eliminate the virus. Nothing will get rid of it. We can only hope to manage it better, with better treatments, and focus on those more at risk.

So, we are not so far apart on some things.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Monday 28th of June 2021 02:08:32 PM

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
This is the part I have concerns with. While I accept the current lockdown for Greater Sydney, amongst other places, it simply CAN NOT CONTINUE forevever.
At some point we have to accept that is here to stay and we have to live with it and return to a more normal life.

Our lives will never be normal until we all get vaccinated and until then, we need to minimise the chance of SARS-CoV2 mutating into a more deadly version. If there are no community transmissions then there is no need for lockdowns but once it gets out into the community, transmission must be minimised to prevent further mutations, hospitalisations, deaths and economic costs. That's when there needs to be a lockdown.

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Monday 28th of June 2021 02:19:40 PM

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

BTW, I have had my first AZ jab

bgt · Guru

Rob again you have made silly assumptions.

I'm a realist that believes we need to manage covid. Not hide from it with continual government intervention. Becoming a hermit country isn't an answer. It's hiding from a solution. You believe, for what ever purpose, that I take 910 deaths in Australia as being "lightheartedly". Again you are so wrong. You also say I don't believe in lockdowns and the wearing of masks. OK show me where I have said that. Quote me. Yes I do believe that some governments have over reacted. That's no secret. I also believe that much of the problem comes from hotel quarantine. Unless you can show me where I said I didn't. I also believe that continual disruption is destroying many many folks lives. Businesses going broke. Suicide becoming a real issue. But no you want to lockdown everything. Where's your empathy for all the folks who have suffered from the consequences of government actions?

It is simply not possible to restrict many from coming into Australia. Freight is just one example. I mentioned politicians. Business folks. Military. And Australians trapped over seas. Are they all not entitled to coming into Australia?

As for vaccination well it may just surprise you that I'm in the very high risk level. And yes it may even surprise you that I have been vaccinated. See how wrong your assumptions are?

I will now make another assumption. I'm assuming that nothing I write or say will ever suit your view of the world. So rather than debating endlessly I'll just leave you in peace while you hide under your doona.

dorian · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:
This is the part I have concerns with. While I accept the current lockdown for Greater Sydney, amongst other places, it simply CAN NOT CONTINUE forevever.
At some point we have to accept that is here to stay and we have to live with it and return to a more normal life.
Our lives will never be normal until we all get vaccinated and until then, we need to minimise the chance of SARS-CoV2 mutating into a more deadly version. If there are no community transmissions then there is no need for lockdowns but once it gets out into the community, transmission must be minimised to prevent further mutations, hospitalisations, deaths and economic costs. That's when there needs to be a lockdown.

The vaccination rate is currently 5.5% (for two doses). That's what is holding us back.