The whole of Sydney is now in lockdown....

Rob Driver · Guru

The whole of Sydney is now in lockdown....

Are We Lost · Guru

Dorian, I agree with this part of your comment ....

"ONE DAY we will all have to live with covid".

Many comments on here seem to ignore that point and see lockdowns as the only real alternative. My position is that we are too strongly focused on widespread lockdowns, while we should be warning that they are only a tmporary solution, and people need to be prepared for a future of living with the virus but without lockdowns.

Why do we restrict the population of an entire state from crossing borders when there is a localised area of infection? Why is Greater Sydney in lockdown? Here is a list of exposure sites.

COVID Sites

At present there are 391 sites listed (updated hourly), but not a single one north of Hornsby. The sewerage detection system also reports nothing on the Central Coast. So why is the Central Coast in lockdown? 350,000 people impacted. Think of all the frustrated business owners who may well be vaccinated, doing everything right, but may lose their livelihoods due to no fault of their own. Employees losing shifts, school holidays cancelled, let alone other financial hits to the community. In this case, the cure is worse than the disease.

If cases are reported on the Central Coast, then I would agree with lockdowns .... at present.

But back to the ONE DAY part of Dorian's comment. When will that be and how do we get there. I believe it needs to come soon ... very soon. Perhaps there needs to be a scare for the population to care, and realise that vaccination is the lesser of the evils (risk).

I generally disagree with stronger regulations, but maybe stronger enforcement of mask rules would help ... and that includes those who believe that a protruding nose is OK. I also think there should be a campaign to raise awareness against people going out in the community with any cold like symptoms. Use peer pressure. In Japan, they have been wearing masks for years and it is considered etiquette to help reduce the spread of disease.

So, when that ONE DAY arrives (and I believe it should be this year), and the government decides there will be no lockdown, those unvaccinated will have no choice but to bear the risk themselves, and allow the rest of the country to get on with life. Perhaps for the forseeable future, peer pressure will push those with cold like symptoms to self isolate.

As for all the tales of the difficulty getting a vaccine, I don't see it. Using the site checker, I found 2 sites close enough to me, with the first appointment 2 days away. I tried another region, and dropped my age to 49. Still no problem. Then I entered a Sydney postcode. Many sites within 10 minutes, and I could get in later this afternoon. Maybe some areas have shortages. Then again, maybe it's just a lot of fake news.

oldbloke · Guru

Trevor 57 wrote:
Izabarack wrote:
Trevor 57 wrote:
......... and telling everyone to get the AstraZeneca shot.......
WTF is going on??
It's called Risk Management. Big picture is that chance of serious side effects from AZ is very low while negative effects from the virus are quite high. All this against a background of a pretty poor effort at getting the population vaccinated.
or maybe he has shares in AZ

Sooo, I can't quote, but Scomo said between 18 and 60, talk to your Dr and if its OK get the astrazeneca.

Watching ABC 7.30 report tonight. The actual advice is if your under 60 and if another vacc is not available then you should just get the astrazeneca. Because the benefits out weigh the negatives.

Sooo, starting to sound like the earlier decisions were too conservative and has just created confusion and perhaps mistrust.

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

The last COVID related death was 28th of October 2020. This Delta variant might transmit easier, but is it killing people?

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Thursday 1st of July 2021 05:46:23 AM

dorian · Guru

Trevor 57 wrote:
The last COVID related death was 28th of October 2020. This Delta variant might transmit easier, but is it killing people?

It's still killing Indians:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

this is Australia

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

Wow. Are we allowed to be critical yet? Would love to be a fly on the wall at national cabinet this week

Thousands enter Australia for holidays and business as wait drags for stranded locals
www.theage.com.au/national/t...30-p585pd.html

"More than 10,000 travellers entered Australia to visit friends, go on holiday or for business trips in April..........The data does not include travellers entering under the travel bubble with New Zealand."

But from the ABS site, which kind of doesn't match the numbers being mentioned above. NZ numbers are expected.
www.abs.gov.au/statistics/in...latest-release

Source countries (short term arrivals)
The three leading source countries where visitors came from were:

New Zealand (16,320 trips)
The USA (880)
The UK (660).

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

even some of the medical professionals are starting to contradict each other

What hope to we have of getting the REAL truth

I am not and I repeat NOT a conspiracy theorist, but I am starting to have some doubts about the garbage being fed to us

You have to wonder when you see stuff like this - https://caldronpool.com/covid-19-the...ters-bookcase/

This is the purpose of the book: to shake up and to show the deficiencies which were manifest in our global system, even before COVID broke out,

In recent weeks, a number of world leaders have echoed Schwabs sentiments. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said the pandemic has provided an opportunity for a reset. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the pandemic will be used to trigger an acceleration of social and economic change. While Prince Charles described the pandemic as a golden opportunity to reset ourselves.

Izabarack · Guru

dorian wrote:
These very lockdowns are the reason that these people are able to whine about lockdowns in relative safety instead of from a hospital bed.

Yes, agreed. Lots of whinging but no suggestions on what else to do. So, so, glad the whingers have no effect on the current strategies.

Babies learn to walk by going through a process of successive approximations until the skill is mastered. I see that most of the strategies currently used are working, so continued dicking with the edges will go on for some time. Some authorities, such as Gladys, need to learn to use lockdowns much earlier once a community transmission case is found.

dorian · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
So, so, glad the whingers have no effect on the current strategies.

Hmmm, the Labor states seem to go early, whereas Morrison and Berejiklian go late, if at all, yet all claim to be following medical advice. I wonder whether the relevant medical officers are being subtly influenced by their political associates.

It seems to me that the left are more concerned about people whereas the conservatives are more worried about the dollar.

-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 1st of July 2021 07:49:03 AM

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

dorian wrote:
Izabarack wrote:
So, so, glad the whingers have no effect on the current strategies.
Hmmm, the Labor states seem to go early, whereas Morrison and Berejiklian go late, if at all, yet all claim to be following medical advice. I wonder whether the relevant medical officers are being subtly influenced by their political associates.
It seems to me that the left are more concerned about people whereas the conservatives are more worried about the dollar.

-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 1st of July 2021 07:49:03 AM

of course the 'medical professionals' are going to do what their masters want them to do, they won't be in the job long if they don't - these are not elected officials, they are employed

oldbloke · Guru

"It seems to me that the left are more concerned about people whereas the conservatives are more worried about the dollar."

I thought this was obvious months ago.

"Of course the 'medical professionals' are going to do what their masters want them to do, they won't be in the job long if they don't - these are not elected officials, they are employed"

That is often the case. But it would depend on who the master is. Would it not.

Whenarewethere · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
"It seems to me that the left are more concerned about people whereas the conservatives are more worried about the dollar."

Cuba has developed 2 vaccines & now 9% of their population is fully vaccinated.

Maybe we could have saved dollars while going a bit quicker!

bgt · Guru

I see one report this morning that the chances of dying from the Delta covid is almost the same as being killed by lightening. The death rate from the original covid variant was 1.9% The death rate from the delta variant is 0.3%.

The blood clot risk from AZ is 0.5. The risk of a car accident going to get AZ vaccine is 28. Facts. Not rumours. Not a scare campaign. Just good old real figures.

Am I missing something? Should I also be scared s@#$less?

Oh and I may add that this is not a right wing report. It mostly comes from our very own ABC.

dorian · Guru

bgt wrote:
The blood clot risk from AZ is 0.5. The risk of a car accident going to get AZ vaccine is 28. Facts.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-29/garry-recovering-from-blood-clots-linked-to-astrazeneca/100252574

While ATAGI concedes estimates based on small numbers of cases are imprecise, the advisory group estimates the risk of TTS in Australia to be around:

2.6 per 100,000 in those aged under 60
1.6 per 100,000 in those aged 60 and over

That's 0.0026% and 0.0016%.

As for the risk of a car accident, 28 what? Percent??? Or are you saying that out of 28 people who drive to the vaccine rollout location, 1 will be involved in an accident???

bgt · Guru

Dorian you're right to question the figures. And that's a point I'm trying to get home to folks. The media is full of 'facts'. Yeah but who's facts?

Regardless all the evidence points to a minuscule chance of getting a blood clot from AZ. And they now know how to treat it.

Take all media releases with a good dose of salt.

dorian · Guru

bgt wrote:
Dorian you're right to question the figures. And that's a point I'm trying to get home to folks. The media is full of 'facts'. Yeah but who's facts?

Regardless all the evidence points to a minuscule chance of getting a blood clot from AZ. And they now know how to treat it.

Take all media releases with a good dose of salt.

I questioned those figures because some were obviously absurd (ie not "real', as you claimed) and because there were no references to support them. In fact I'm still waiting for a URL so that I can observe those "facts" for myself.

-- Edited by dorian on Friday 2nd of July 2021 11:11:34 AM

bgt · Guru

Doria I'm not able to post a clickable link. But try this www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-02/delta-coronavirus-variant-symptoms-vaccines-spread/100255804

I had another link but I can't find it at the moment. But it was on the HEADLINE news. ie News.com.au

Keep in mind I'm not saying these are that 'facts'. I'm trying to relay the fact that everyone's facts are different. Choose your poison.

FWIW I have serious health issues. This morning was with one of my specialists. Heart. He reckons it's all over played. My hematologist reckons its over played. My GP reckons it's over played. I trust my medial advice. I have to because they are keeping me alive. So how can opinions vary so much? Because everyone is using the 'facts' that suit there position/opinion.

dorian · Guru

bgt wrote:
Doria I'm not able to post a clickable link. But try this www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-02/delta-coronavirus-variant-symptoms-vaccines-spread/100255804

I had another link but I can't find it at the moment. But it was on the HEADLINE news. ie News.com.au

Your miguided rant appears to have been based on totally fictitious numbers ("good old real figures") which you have then used to launch into a baseless attack on the ABC. That's known as a straw man argument.

I have reread the following claims several times and I still cannot make sense of them. What were you trying to say?

"The blood clot risk from AZ is 0.5. The risk of a car accident going to get AZ vaccine is 28. Facts. Not rumours. Not a scare campaign."

Anyway, just to indulge you, let's explore the risk of driving to your local vaccine hub.

Here is a US web site that tabulates the odds of dying from several different causes:

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/

Essentially, if we take any deceased individual at random, the data tells us the likelihood that the individual died from a particular cause. If we examine motor-vehicle crashes, for example, we find that the odds of having died from this cause are 1 in 107. Let's round this number down to 100.

Let's now assume that each driver travels 500,000 km on average during their lifetime. This means that 100 drivers will accumulate 50 million km, and 1 of them will die.

Now let's assume we have 10 million drivers travelling an average distance of 5km to and from their vaccination hubs. That's a total distance of 50 million kms, so we can expect that one of them will die. If the average distance is 1km, then 0.2 drivers will die. So the death rate is 1 in 10 million for the first case, and 1 in 50 million for the second.

I realise this figure is the death rate, not accident rate, but that's all I could find. Otherwise, if you can't find the "real facts" (ie 28 something) at news.com.au, I'm definitely not going to waste my time either.

-- Edited by dorian on Friday 2nd of July 2021 03:20:45 PM

bgt · Guru

Dorian there is really something wrong with you. I pointed at some "facts" that were in the news. I didnt say they were true. I simply pointed them out as an example of what's in the news. Then you come along and have a meltdown. You really need some help. There are folks on this, and other forums, who simply can't help themselves from being know it alls and preach to those who have a different point of view. Read the bloody posts and not between the lines. You only think you have a superior intellect to others. But others know better. As far as I'm concern you are a .........

dorian · Guru

bgt wrote:
Dorian there is really something wrong with you. I pointed at some "facts" that were in the news. I didnt say they were true. I simply pointed them out as an example of what's in the news. Then you come along and have a meltdown. You really need some help. There are folks on this, and other forums, who simply can't help themselves from being know it alls and preach to those who have a different point of view. Read the bloody posts and not between the lines. You only think you have a superior intellect to others. But others know better. As far as I'm concern you are a .........

You don't need to be an Einstein to understand these numbers. You just need to understand simple arithmetic.

Let's say your figure of 28 represents a probability of 28%. That's close to 25%, which is 1 in 4. So if you were to drive to and from work every day, you could expect to be involved in an accident every second day.

If, on the other hand the figure is 1 in 28, then you could expect to prang your car twice per month.

I think everyone can see that your "real facts" don't make much sense at all, so if you can substantiate them, please do. (News.com.au is not a reference, it's a web site.)

-- Edited by dorian on Friday 2nd of July 2021 04:24:38 PM

Greg 1 · Guru

The eventual answer to the lockdowns is the vaccines. Without doubt, they limit the transmission of the virus, protect people from either getting it or at very least, limit the degree that the virus affects the recipient. I believe that once the vast majority of Australians are vaccinated, we can see a return to somewhat more normal life, although until the rest of the world bring it under control, overseas travel may still be an issue. With regards the antivaxers, there is now definite evidence that the vaccines are effective. If you look at the numbers in the USA, the states that have been most successful at getting their population vaccinated, the virus infection numbers have been plummeting. Those states that for one reason or another are falling behind with their vaccinations, still have very high infection rates. Just like other epidemics that we have faced, such as polio, the vaccines do work. Polio has practically been eliminated in this country due to the vaccine. Whilst Covid will still be around, just like polio, we can virtually eliminate this disease if everyone is smart and gets the vaccine. At that point, then we can live with it. Until then, lockdowns are the way to go.

Dicko1 · Senior Member

BETOOTA TIMES..

After almost an entire week of radio silence, Prime Minister Scott Morrison has today held a press conference with the aim of distracting from his complete and utter failings when it comes to the jab roll-out.

Fresh out of isolation after a self-indulgent trip to the UK to get photographed with Biden and Boris at a world leaders summit that he wasn't even invited to, Morrison made a point of mentioning he hadnt even had the opportunity to see his family yet before getting back to work because thats just how committed he is to the most basic requirements of a Prime Minister.

However, with very little international sporting victories or AFP bikie busts to hang his hat on as a distraction from the fact that 70% of Australia is currently in lockdown Scotty From Marketing has had to hark back to a domestic rugby league match that took place nearly a week ago.

Haha how good was Origin!!! said the Prime Minister, while donning a Batchys Blues style novelty afro and blue face paint.

Queensland didn't even get a look in there. Bit like the jab roll-out hahaha

Nah nah nah. Just kidding. Bit too soon hahaha

But seriously, I think we all know the real reason why Annastacia was so fired up this week. Her team played like ****!!!

Scotty From Marketing went on to spend another twenty minutes talking about Game II of the 2021 State Of Origin series, making a point of comparing the stellar performance of the NSW Blues to his own Sydney-centric Federal Government.

And how bout that John Tedesco!! Isn't he a talent!!

You know, its not all Latrell Michaels or Jack Addo-Cart

We shouldn't only congratulate them Theres a lot of talent in that team. Not just the ummm country kids

Morrison then spent five short minutes discussing the outcomes of today's testy National Cabinet meeting.

The PM said that the cabinet have agreed to halve the number of people allowed into Australia each week and to set up vaccination targets, which are still vague as **** and likely to be shifted, after the Queensland Premier was forced to highlight this issue in a blowtorch press conference on Wednesday.

International arrivals will now be capped at 3,035 people a week, down from 6,370.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison said that the Commonwealth, in response to this, would increase the number of repatriation flights specifically focusing on any stranded Australians who live in targeted marginal electorates and safe Liberal Party electorates.

-- Edited by Dicko1 on Friday 2nd of July 2021 05:20:25 PM

Dicko1 · Senior Member

_BETOOTA TIMES

THE NORTHERN BLOWTORCH: The Queensland Premier has today run the ball up the middle and launched a brutal attack on the Prime Minister and his severe incompetence over the past few months.

Palaszczuk has made it clear that Morrisons announcement declaring the AZ jab open to under 40s was NOT discussed in the National Cabinet meeting, implying it was something hed said off-the-cuff in his latest marketing ploy.

With three new cases overnight, and majority of the Queensland population back in lockdown, the Premier was not here to **** spiders as she continued to fire shots at Canberra about the bungled jab roll-out.

**** you and **** your bull**** National Cabinet. Give us some more ****en jabs she said.

And for anyone who has the hide to say Im being unhelpful right now. Its worth mentioning that this so called National Cabinet that Scotty keep making us zoom in for is not recognised by the constitution. It is a fictional concept created in a marketing focus group with the aim of shifting blame onto Premiers

Im the first to crack the ****s, but I daresay Gladys will be next

Weve asked for more vaccines, and hes rejected our request because the useless prick hasnt ordered enough. Instead hes gone against the advice of all the health bodies and said that young people can get that jab that he warned them against taking just two months ago. And now hes trying to hand over to the private sector

Ill say it again Scotty. **** you and **** your National Cabinet

It was a united front by Palaszczuk, her Deputy and and the Queensland Chief Health Office as the Premier took a blowtorch to the Murdoch media narrative that that Morrison was delivering in his role as the leader of this country.

The state has recorded three new Covid-19 cases overnight, including the brother of an unvaccinated Queensland hospital worker.

Genomic sequencing has linked the 19-year-old worker in Brisbane back to a returned traveller who had left the country to visit Indonesia repeatedly because they must know someone important in Canberra, according to Mr Miles.

These arent stranded Aussies. These are people more important than us. Friends of Scott

DMaxer · Guru

As Geoffrey Chaucer said, "Many a true word is spoken in jest."

yobarr · Guru

Great to see that one member has successfully managed to twice combine rubbish and politics in the same post! Cheers

peter67 · Guru

I like it Dicko1.

Are We Lost · Guru

Back on June 30 in this thread I posed the question .... "Why is the Central Coast in lockdown?"

I know it's part of Greater Sydney, yet initially the lockdown started as quite a small area. There has not been a single exposure site listed for Central Coast, nor a single case. So why are 350,000 people affected?

Metropolitan Sydney? Sure. Or if cases start appearing on the Central Coast, then yes. But I believe lockdown now is not called for. Perhaps that is a reason why there is widespread flouting of the rules. I went out yesterday and the streets were just as busy as usual .... nothing like the ghost town effect when we had the first lockdown early in the pandemic.

If lockdowns made more sense, then maybe less people would thumb their noses at regulations.

With 70% of the over 70's now vaccinated (first dose at least), the majority of those most at risk are somewhat protected, and those who still have not done so can easily get it done. Hopefully, this will be the final lockdown.

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Saturday 3rd of July 2021 07:14:12 PM

oldbloke · Guru

I don't think the 1st jab od astrazenica provides a great deal of protection. Say 30%. But after the second it about 90%

msg · Guru

This eliminating of the virus. We have had a flu vaccine for as long as I can remember why hasn't the flu been eliminated?

The COVID vaccine does not eliminate the ability of a vaccinated person from contracting the disease. It gives a good protection.

This is the same for passing it on to others and lessening the severity.

Though a better situation than we currently have by being unvaccinated.

Like others, my biggest issue is the politicians. I hope this all comes back and bites them on the bum.