Excellent Age article on how we assess risk and the AZ vaccine

Mike Harding · Guru

Excellent Age article on how we assess risk and the AZ vaccine

dorian · Guru

The fallacy in the way that people assess risk is that it is self centred. If that limo driver had considered the risk that his selfish refusal of the AZ vaccine posed to the wider community, then we may not be in the mess that we are today.

msg · Guru

I think our assessment of risk is often judged by control. Think about comparing car crashes and getting covid. You tend to think you can control most situations in crashes to prevent them. Whereas you have little or no control over contracting covid (Unless you go into hiding) because you cannot sense its presence and thus avoid it. Humans need some control over outcomes.

msg · Guru

www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/pm-wants-review-of-astrazeneca-age-advice/ar-AAMpiIn (I think this may have been removed) However, heres what is left.

PM wants review of AstraZeneca age advice
Daniel McCulloch and Matt Coughlan 29 mins ago
|
Scott Morrison says he wants immunisation experts to reconsider age advice on AstraZeneca.© Lukas Coch/AAP PHOTOS Scott Morrison says he wants immunisation experts to reconsider age advice on AstraZeneca.

The prime minister is urging the Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation to recommend the jab to people under 60.

Pfizer remains the preferred coronavirus vaccine for that age group.

ATAGI is advising the risks of extremely rare blood clots outweigh the benefits of AstraZeneca for under 60s.

But Mr Morrison believes coronavirus outbreaks across NSW, Victoria and South Australia have changed the equation.

"When COVID cases are rising, that means people have a greater likelihood of catching COVID, particularly older people, then the balance or risk changes," he told 4BC radio on Thursday.

"I have just simply said 'the balance of risk is changing guys, so how is that impacting on your advice' and it's time to think about that."

ATAGI provides scientific advice on immunisations once medicines are approved for use.

The prime minister has revealed he is constantly appealing with the panel to update its AstraZeneca advice.

I wonder what the verdict of AZ approval would have been without the consideration of the PM's push and no Covid threat. Would it even have been approved by the medico's ? Why has there been a special board (ATAGI) set up to deal especially with covid instead of the long standing TGA (right name?)

dorian · Guru

I think Morrison is right to ask ATAGI to reconsider their advice. At the moment they seem to be basing their advice on the risk to the individual, but Morrison is asking them to consider the risk to the community. I don't think any reasonable person can argue with that.

Mike Harding · Guru

It is my understanding the AZ vaccine is approved for all above 18 years of age by the TGA. It seems to me that should be the beginning and end of it.

If the TGA don't know what they are doing then let's fire them and make another TGA, if they do know what they are doing then let's not have others doing second-guessing.

I'm just heading outside for 15 minutes - I want to see if I get struck by lightning... a bigger risk than my AZ jabs.

Are We Lost · Guru

In the UK, the age cutoff to only be offered Pfizer is 30.

dorian · Guru

Two more deaths from AZ:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-22/two-deaths-linked-to-covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-victoria-tasmania/100313344

Kebbin · Guru

ATAGI are an advisory group appointed by the Health Minister and now the PM is pressuring them to change their advise which would make them look silly.
As it is an advisory group the PM is under no obligation to follow their advice, I'm sure he has not followed advice on any number of occasions in the past.
It looks to me that the PM is playing a blame game to deflect the shirt that is flying his way at the moment.
Astrazeneca has been doomed to fail for any number of reasons such as, not testing over 60's in the intial trials, Efficacy wobbled all over the place from 90% to 72% to 60% and then the Clotting issues.
With all the poor work done by AZ and the scare put through people no one wants it anymore so no matter what happens now not many under 60 will touch it.
There is no need for the anti vaxxer and the general Looney tunes to say anything job done as far as they are concerned.

msg · Guru

All I'm saying its all about the perceived risk.

The PM on his re-election risk and

his party not wanting to admit they made a financial mistake and their election risk.

Perceived risk is also more convincing than actual risk.

Whenarewethere · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
It is my understanding the AZ vaccine is approved for all above 18 years of age by the TGA. It seems to me that should be the beginning and end of it.
If the TGA don't know what they are doing then let's fire them and make another TGA, if they do know what they are doing then let's not have others doing second-guessing.
I'm just heading outside for 15 minutes - I want to see if I get struck by lightning... a bigger risk than my AZ jabs.

My understanding is that above 18 years is approved by TGA.

But also my understanding is that doctors are still waiting for a copy of the actual paperwork that will indemnify them if something goes wrong.

Bicyclecamper · Guru

If the AZ or even Pfizer was safe to use like they are saying, why would both the doctors and the government need an indemnity

-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 22nd of July 2021 04:49:10 PM

yobarr · Guru

Bicyclecamper wrote:
If the AZ or even Pfizer was safe to use like they are saying, why would both the doctors and the government need an indemnity
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 22nd of July 2021 04:49:10 PM

Talk about splitting hairs,and a storm in a teacup! How many of the alleged total 'Covid' deaths involved people of advanced age,who may already have been on death's door? But they automatically become included in the list of 'victims' of Covid,and the press excels in dramatising this rubbish. For heaven's sake,each year there are more road deaths than the total claimed 'Covid' deaths. And nobody blinks an eyelid.Cheers

Craig1 · Guru

And what about all the Indian people dying from "fungus" disease after recovering from Covid, due to, too much steroids being used to cure the covid.

Dicko1 · Senior Member

yobarr wrote:
Bicyclecamper wrote:
If the AZ or even Pfizer was safe to use like they are saying, why would both the doctors and the government need an indemnity
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Thursday 22nd of July 2021 04:49:10 PM
Talk about splitting hairs,and a storm in a teacup! How many of the alleged total 'Covid' deaths involved people of advanced age,who may already have been on death's door? But they automatically become included in the list of 'victims' of Covid,and the press excels in dramatising this rubbish. For heaven's sake,each year there are more road deaths than the total claimed 'Covid' deaths. And nobody blinks an eyelid.Cheers

Another one that can only be cured with a piece of 4 x 2..