Lockdowns and the social cost

Mike Harding · Guru

Lockdowns and the social cost

DeBe · Guru

I do aggre with that Mike.

Whenarewethere · Guru

We are some of the lucky ones with water views from every window. But we feel very sorry for people who live in some mouldy hellhole with no sunlight let alone a view of a slither or sky to say the least.

Let the decision makers live in above noted abode!

Craig1 · Guru

According to those same decision makers " no vacancies, it is Xmas Eve "

Good stuff Mike, but how can we get the message across.

dogbox · Guru

i don't think they can hear you complaining , did they not just give themselves pay rises. so not much chance of a pay cut .

Izabarack · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
What I do suggest is that whenever a lockdown is legislated the salary of the following is reduced to that of JobKepper for the duration of the lockdown:
It seems to me that if figures of authority are going to inflict pain upon those they govern on the premise of "For their own good" then they should be prepared to experience some of that pain too. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Not a practical suggestion. How do you measure Culpability? How do you seperate authority from responsibility? How douse measure what is reasonable?

Tony LEE · Guru

Childish thinking.

oldbloke · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Lockdowns and the social cost
I accept that lockdowns work in minimising the spread of covid, that is clear from observing the five Victoria has legislated.
However there is huge social and freedom of movement costs to these lockdowns, loss of income for individuals, loss of business for wealth creators, marital and family conflicts and Goodness knows what else. Lockdowns may work for covid but they have a host of unintended side effects and I never, ever, voted for a government who would put me under house arrest.
I'll point out, lockdowns don't affect me at all; I live in a caravan in the bush and barely notice their passing. I (generally) no longer work and am self funded.
What I do suggest is that whenever a lockdown is legislated the salary of the following is reduced to that of JobKepper for the duration of the lockdown:
All elected politicians in the state concerned
All civil servants of policy decision making level be they involved in the covid process or not
All medical experts who provided advice regarding the lockdown.
It seems to me that if figures of authority are going to inflict pain upon those they govern on the premise of "For their own good" then they should be prepared to experience some of that pain too. I don't think that is unreasonable.

Mike, understand where your coming from. However if that happens, depending on who is in power we may never have lock downs resulting in a very high death rate.

Mike Harding · Guru

Izabarack wrote:
Not a practical suggestion. How do you measure Culpability? How do you seperate authority from responsibility? How douse measure what is reasonable?

All those assessments are made when jobs are assigned a pay grade.

dorian · Guru

How many politicians opted for an AZ jab rather than Pfizer? That should tell you all you need to know.

msg · Guru

dorian wrote:
How many politicians opted for an AZ jab rather than Pfizer? That should tell you all you need to know.

It sure does.

However, this variant appears to be a lot more transmissible than the others and a jab is the only defense we have.

Like you said, it would be useful to know if those that died and contracted delta were jabbed. I suspect the numbers do not support the story they are selling.

Dicko1 · Senior Member

msg wrote:
dorian wrote:
How many politicians opted for an AZ jab rather than Pfizer? That should tell you all you need to know.
It sure does.
However, this variant appears to be a lot more transmissible than the others and a jab is the only defense we have.
Like you said, it would be useful to know if those that died and contracted delta were jabbed. I suspect the numbers do not support the story they are selling.

These figures are from America. Ours would be similar in percentages...unless the looney toon fringe now say that the virus can read border restrictions....

"Meanwhile, cases are rising in all 50 states, and have tripled in the past month.

On June 21, the US was averaging 12,000 infections per day. That figure is now 38,000. Hospitalisations have also spiked.

Of the people in hospital with covid, about 97 per cent are unvaccinated. And among those who have died recently, 99.5 per cent were unvaccinated.

The US vaccine rollout has slowed considerably after a fast start in the first half of the year. A little under half the population is fully vaccinated, while two-thirds of people have received at least one shot."

The figures in red say it all....just get vaccinated!!

Rob Driver · Guru

I can basically see where you are coming from Mike Harding.

Unfortunately, the way it is in Australia is that we currently have seven jurisdictions trying, at times to do their best in containing a world wide pandemic that is deliberately being brought in by the policy of the party who should be responsible for ALL AUSTRALIANS and their collective wellbeing.

Politics have played a massive part in the less than successful decisions that have been, and currently are being made by some.

To hold all the decision makers to task by salary penalty would be a challenge at best.

A half wit can see that if you stop people moving, you then stop the movement of the virus. The source of the virus in this country is from people moving into Aus from overseas.

We are an island, the people that control the island are responsible for every death and to a lesser degree, every infection we have had.

The policy that NSW has adopted is purely politically based. They cant, and wont, have it both ways. They will have to eventually go against the very party that the NSW govt is currently supporting.

I will assume that they will all pay when Australia stands up to vote.

Without getting any more political I will leave it there.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 08:43:31 AM

TheHeaths · Guru

If anyone thinks that the Opposition would have done anything different when this pandemic started and Australians looked to come home, you are kidding yourselves.

They are the party who have stood up and asked, even demanded, that the Government do more to bring Australians home. And in my opinion it is only right and just that both parties have tried to repatriate people as best they can, because they are elected in this country for ALL Australians, here and overseas.

The pandemic is here because we live in the 21st century, and people travel, and it cannot and should not be laid at the feet of any party or Government.

As for myself, I consider it unthinkable that Australians are prevented from coming home to their country. Human error has seen some infectious breakouts, but we must never stop those who wish to return coming home. We just have to do things better.

Gundog · Guru

If you look at the morons that protested in Sydney and Melbourne, no consideration for their fellow Australians considering the explosion of cases in NSW a few selfish individuals who consider the rules dont apply to them, one mob travel from a knowen hotspot delivering the virus to 2 other states, and then thousands decided to spit the dummy and kick their toys out of the cot because they cannot get their own way, I realy wonder if the these self entertainers (W**k**s) would ever front up for a covid test or the jab.

As for those overseas they were told to come home in march last year and didnt, then dont blame anyone else except yourself, IMHO if you want come come home now you need to demonstrate that you have had 2 covid injections and 3 negative covid test prior to boarding an aircraft at your own expense, upon arrival you go into to quarantine for a minmum 14 day and you must have 3 more negative test befor being released all at your own expense.

Dicko1 · Senior Member

Agree. These scumbags who were out demonstrating against lockdowns must really have the IQ of a rock. I saw one small child (about5-6) sitting on her parents shoulders filming herself(or the march) with her phone. Yelling..freedom, freedom!! WTF was that bull****e? Parent should be charged with child abuse. Then we had the self absorbed fire dancer! Another class act of little intelligence. People are in ICU and dying yet these dog droppings scream freedom and anti lockdown....no wonder I dont hold out to much credence for mans long term survival on this planet...Coppers should have been twice in number and issued with lengths of 4x2...its the only way to fix stupid.

Heres another one who needs jailing for 6 months....10.30a.m. 27/7/2021 "

Five people from one household on the NSW Central Coast tested positive to coronavirus on Monday, igniting fears of potential further spread.

The positive cases, from Budgewoi, north of Sydney, resulted in 25 new exposure sites in the area.

Authorities are also worried about two close contacts who have so far tested negative, but who were living in the same household.

Meanwhile, attention is turning to the actions of one of those contacts, who visited 25 shops in five days after being ordered to isolate.Lake Macquarie MP Greg Piper has hit out at the act, labelling it disappointing.

I simply cannot describe that situation, but lets settle on mind blowing and disappointing, he said, according to the Daily Mail.

-- Edited by Dicko1 on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 10:33:33 AM

Rob Driver · Guru

TheHeaths wrote:
If anyone thinks that the Opposition would have done anything different when this pandemic started and Australians looked to come home, you are kidding yourselves.

They are the party who have stood up and asked, even demanded, that the Government do more to bring Australians home. And in my opinion it is only right and just that both parties have tried to repatriate people as best they can, because they are elected in this country for ALL Australians, here and overseas.

The pandemic is here because we live in the 21st century, and people travel, and it cannot and should not be laid at the feet of any party or Government.

As for myself, I consider it unthinkable that Australians are prevented from coming home to their country. Human error has seen some infectious breakouts, but we must never stop those who wish to return coming home. We just have to do things better.

It is sad to say that we have had the best of the bad lot of any who could have been in control during this pandemic.

Bringing Australians home has worn fairly thin with most in Aus.

Ask anyone who is forced to close their business and lose their livelihood while they watch the endless flight of * Australians coming home* fifteen months after the govt advised all Aussies overseas to come home.

They sit and watch news reports with regular monotony of stories of someone who comes in from overseas, spends time in less than adequate quarantine and then infects hundreds if not thousands of people.

This topic is about lockdowns and the social cost.

I suggest that the social cost to the genuine caring Australian of having to have these lockdowns far out weighs the selfish requirements of a few who consider that they are so self entitled as to demand international travel whenever they want.

An international shut down at our borders while we put into place, quarantine stations that actually worked and then strictly supervised who was actually coming and going, would have gone long way to reducing the social cost.

We have had many cases of people within Australia not being permitted to travel to visit sick and dying family while at the same time we see hordes of people leaving Aus to go to overseas for the very same reason and then being permitted back in WITH THE VIRUS.

These type of actions are what is causing the social cost of the mental health of the majority of Australians.

Might I suggest that many of the supporters of this overseas travel have not been denied a visit to a sick or dying family member in Australia while watching this fiasco supported by the Federal govt and their state counterparts.

I am, and have always been a Lib/National supporter but what they are doing to the bulk of our population by their inactions with international travel and with the gross mismanagement of quarantine, vaccine roll out and their effort to politically divide the actions of the states of the commonwealth, is not acceptable.

Sometimes just being tough and hardening up is the better avenue for the country and its peoples well being.

As I said in another topic * I am glad we are not in a war of actual combat*

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 10:44:41 AM

msg · Guru

Why are they allowing skilled tradies to go overseas to do jobs then come back in when businesses are screaming out for skilled labour here?

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

Gundog wrote:
If you look at the morons that protested in Sydney and Melbourne, no consideration for their fellow Australians considering the explosion of cases in NSW a few selfish individuals who consider the rules dont apply to them, one mob travel from a knowen hotspot delivering the virus to 2 other states, and then thousands decided to spit the dummy and kick their toys out of the cot because they cannot get their own way, I realy wonder if the these self entertainers (W**k**s) would ever front up for a covid test or the jab.
As for those overseas they were told to come home in march last year and didnt, then dont blame anyone else except yourself, IMHO if you want come come home now you need to demonstrate that you have had 2 covid injections and 3 negative covid test prior to boarding an aircraft at your own expense, upon arrival you go into to quarantine for a minmum 14 day and you must have 3 more negative test befor being released all at your own expense.

Mostly in the 25 - 40 year old age group - no surprise there

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

TheHeaths wrote:
If anyone thinks that the Opposition would have done anything different when this pandemic started and Australians looked to come home, you are kidding yourselves.

They are the party who have stood up and asked, even demanded, that the Government do more to bring Australians home. And in my opinion it is only right and just that both parties have tried to repatriate people as best they can, because they are elected in this country for ALL Australians, here and overseas.

The pandemic is here because we live in the 21st century, and people travel, and it cannot and should not be laid at the feet of any party or Government.

As for myself, I consider it unthinkable that Australians are prevented from coming home to their country. Human error has seen some infectious breakouts, but we must never stop those who wish to return coming home. We just have to do things better.

The 'Opposition' are the ones who got us out of the worst of the GFC, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss them - it is easy to judge them when they have no power and it if you are holding ScoMo & Co up as role models I will do my best to not laugh out loud. They are like an elephant on Mandrax

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 12:06:33 PM

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

My guess is it wont be long and this topic will get a belting with the big padlock.

msg · Guru

Trevor 57 wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
If anyone thinks that the Opposition would have done anything different when this pandemic started and Australians looked to come home, you are kidding yourselves.

They are the party who have stood up and asked, even demanded, that the Government do more to bring Australians home. And in my opinion it is only right and just that both parties have tried to repatriate people as best they can, because they are elected in this country for ALL Australians, here and overseas.

The pandemic is here because we live in the 21st century, and people travel, and it cannot and should not be laid at the feet of any party or Government.

As for myself, I consider it unthinkable that Australians are prevented from coming home to their country. Human error has seen some infectious breakouts, but we must never stop those who wish to return coming home. We just have to do things better.

The 'Opposition' are the ones who got us out of the worst of the GFC, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss them - it is easy to judge them when they have no power and it if you are holding ScoMo & Co up as role models I will do my best to not laugh out loud. They are like an elephant on Mandrax

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 12:06:33 PM

Yep they splashed all the reserves the Howard govt had built up and put us into deficit. I think not one of any of the pollies in power should ever be elected again. we need a good clean out. This includes all the so called powerbrokers on the party payrolls. A completely clean slate.

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

msg wrote:
Trevor 57 wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
If anyone thinks that the Opposition would have done anything different when this pandemic started and Australians looked to come home, you are kidding yourselves.

They are the party who have stood up and asked, even demanded, that the Government do more to bring Australians home. And in my opinion it is only right and just that both parties have tried to repatriate people as best they can, because they are elected in this country for ALL Australians, here and overseas.

The pandemic is here because we live in the 21st century, and people travel, and it cannot and should not be laid at the feet of any party or Government.

As for myself, I consider it unthinkable that Australians are prevented from coming home to their country. Human error has seen some infectious breakouts, but we must never stop those who wish to return coming home. We just have to do things better.

The 'Opposition' are the ones who got us out of the worst of the GFC, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss them - it is easy to judge them when they have no power and it if you are holding ScoMo & Co up as role models I will do my best to not laugh out loud. They are like an elephant on Mandrax

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 12:06:33 PM
Yep they splashed all the reserves the Howard govt had built up and put us into deficit. I think not one of any of the pollies in power should ever be elected again. we need a good clean out. This includes all the so called powerbrokers on the party payrolls. A completely clean slate.

ahh yes the "Budget Emergency" I remember that load of tripe - did you know that ScoMo and & Co have increased the National debt by 7 times since taking over from Rudd - how come none of you ever talk about that - it is well recorded, I am not talking rubbish, increased the debt by 7 times, 7 times

Ah yes, I remember the Howard Government, the ones who bought votes by creating middle-class welfare which all us taxpayers are still paying for, the ones who spent nothing on infrastructure like schools, hospitals etc, the Government who will be remembered for squandering the biggest opportunity to set Australia up for the future with the mining boom, ah yes, I remember Howard & Co

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/morrison-governments-gross-debt-makes-labors-gfc-stimulus-look-like-petty-cash,14757

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 12:37:50 PM

Blues Man · Guru

Clarky 1 wrote:
My guess is it wont be long and this topic will get a belting with the big padlock.

Why would it be padlocked Clarky 1, everybody knows that the selfish people who don't want to be vaccinated are complete TOOLS.

Tony Bev · Guru

Before this thread gets closed for politikil speak

I look upon lockdowns and the social cost associated with it, as a much lesser evil, than allowing a pandemic to run out of control, and the social (present and future) cost associated with that

My opinion is that, in the years to come, when the bean counters tally up the imaginary cost of the world going into lockdown for a few weeks, to eliminate Covid-19, in early 2020.

They will probably find that it would have been cheaper, than the cost the world had spent on, stop start lockdown/vaccines/quarantines/policing the rule breakers/ventilators/ masks/etc/etc/etc

I try to look on the bright side, during lockdown, if a recreational druggie, can not get his drugs, he just may decide not to take them anymore, unless he starts to protest about lockdown, so that he can get to his dealer

Sorry about going more off topic, than the thread already has

TheHeaths · Guru

Trevor 57 wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
If anyone thinks that the Opposition would have done anything different when this pandemic started and Australians looked to come home, you are kidding yourselves.

They are the party who have stood up and asked, even demanded, that the Government do more to bring Australians home. And in my opinion it is only right and just that both parties have tried to repatriate people as best they can, because they are elected in this country for ALL Australians, here and overseas.

The pandemic is here because we live in the 21st century, and people travel, and it cannot and should not be laid at the feet of any party or Government.

As for myself, I consider it unthinkable that Australians are prevented from coming home to their country. Human error has seen some infectious breakouts, but we must never stop those who wish to return coming home. We just have to do things better.

The 'Opposition' are the ones who got us out of the worst of the GFC, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss them - it is easy to judge them when they have no power and it if you are holding ScoMo & Co up as role models I will do my best to not laugh out loud. They are like an elephant on Mandrax

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 12:06:33 PM

You have the wrong end of the stick Trevor57 again.

Not holding anyone up as role models. Simply noting that those who feel that Morrison and Co are to blame, and Albanese and his crew would have been different are kidding themselves. It just wouldnt have happened.

If you do, I will also refrain from laughing out loud.

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

Blues Man wrote:
Clarky 1 wrote:
My guess is it wont be long and this topic will get a belting with the big padlock.

Why would it be padlocked Clarky 1, everybody knows that the selfish people who don't want to be vaccinated are complete TOOLS.

I have had one shot of AZ, back for my 2nd Friday week

Trevor 57 · Senior Member

TheHeaths wrote:
Trevor 57 wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
If anyone thinks that the Opposition would have done anything different when this pandemic started and Australians looked to come home, you are kidding yourselves.

They are the party who have stood up and asked, even demanded, that the Government do more to bring Australians home. And in my opinion it is only right and just that both parties have tried to repatriate people as best they can, because they are elected in this country for ALL Australians, here and overseas.

The pandemic is here because we live in the 21st century, and people travel, and it cannot and should not be laid at the feet of any party or Government.

As for myself, I consider it unthinkable that Australians are prevented from coming home to their country. Human error has seen some infectious breakouts, but we must never stop those who wish to return coming home. We just have to do things better.

The 'Opposition' are the ones who got us out of the worst of the GFC, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss them - it is easy to judge them when they have no power and it if you are holding ScoMo & Co up as role models I will do my best to not laugh out loud. They are like an elephant on Mandrax

-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Tuesday 27th of July 2021 12:06:33 PM

You have the wrong end of the stick Trevor57 again.
Not holding anyone up as role models. Simply noting that those who feel that Morrison and Co are to blame, and Albanese and his crew would have been different are kidding themselves. It just wouldnt have happened.
If you do, I will also refrain from laughing out loud.

You are the one who said the others wouldn't have done well, that is pure speculation, which I highlighted - you started this

Wanda · Guru

Always thought the Libs were a bit precious the poor loves, harden up princesses.
The buck falls on Scomo, not Albo!
No point saying " they would not have been any better" because we will never ever know, simple!
This should close it me thinks

yobarr · Guru

Blues Man wrote:
Clarky 1 wrote:
My guess is it wont be long and this topic will get a belting with the big padlock.
Why would it be padlocked Clarky 1, everybody knows that the selfish people who don't want to be vaccinated are complete TOOLS.

Agreed,but,for some,there's probably too much thinking involved here? Cheers