Why are over 60's not allowed to get other than AstraZenica vaccine?

Whenarewethere · Guru

RE: Why are over 60's not allowed to get other than AstraZenica vaccine?

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

I'm going to start a conspiracy theory. biggrin

AstraZeneca (AZ) only works for a few months. The Government is only giving oldies the AZ so that in a few months, we oldies will start dying off with the Delta variant of SARS-CoV2. Fewer pensions to pay, fewer old people in retirement homes, fewer people with chronic health issues and fewer wingers.

Who wants to spread that theory on social media? biggrin

Bicyclecamper · Guru

Greg, I agree, I wish we had the choice. Scumo, had the best choice. He was the first, wanted to be the first, and got Pfizer, but he really wasn't approved for it at the time. I bet his entire family has been vaccinated with it, even his younger children. No one has asked him if his family have been vaccinated with Pfizer as well. I was supposed to get it, but even with my doctor's insistance I couldn't get it, and took a chance on AZ. My daughter, in QLD even as an essential person, can't even get the Pfizer, and she is the same as me, has been advised to take Pfizer, but can only get AZ. She is only 30. She is too scared to risk it, and as a former cancer patient, she has not got an good immune system.

Mike Harding · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
First off I am double vaccinated with AZ having taken the view that the best vaccine is the one available now. That said, I would have liked to be given the choice, not be barred from that purely due to my age.

Greg: like 99.5% of us you do not have the knowledge in order to make that choice with any degree of competence. This is why we accept medical opinion from our GPs or the national medical bodies.

Had the choice been available what criteria would you have used to make it? Stuff you read on the internet or heard on the news? It is only because of internet and press beat-ups that this matter is even a discussion, I certainly do not recall, ever, there being a debate about which tetanus or influenza vaccine individuals preferred.

I'll wager that same 99.5% don't even *know* if there is a choice of influenza vaccine yet they happily accept it into their body then smile politely and say "Thank you" afterwards.

The internet has a lot to answer for.

yobarr · Guru

Mike Harding wrote:
Greg 1 wrote:
First off I am double vaccinated with AZ having taken the view that the best vaccine is the one available now. That said, I would have liked to be given the choice, not be barred from that purely due to my age.
Greg: like 99.5% of us you do not have the knowledge in order to make that choice with any degree of competence. This is why we accept medical opinion from our GPs or the national medical bodies.
Had the choice been available what criteria would you have used to make it? Stuff you read on the internet or heard on the news? It is only because of internet and press beat-ups that this matter is even a discussion, I certainly do not recall, ever, there being a debate about which tetanus or influenza vaccine individuals preferred.
I'll wager that same 99.5% don't even *know* if there is a choice of influenza vaccine yet they happily accept it into their body then smile politely and say "Thank you" afterwards.
The internet has a lot to answer for.

Few truer words ever spoken,Mike.Many people seem to have an alarming inability to evaluate risk v benefit,so that when one sheep says "Baaaa" all the other sheep say "Baaaa". In case anyone missed previous posts,I will again say that the chances of dying in a road accident are infinitely greater than any risks associated with the Covid vaccine. Cheers

Whenarewethere · Guru

More chance of dying from domestic violence.

landy · Guru

I had a doctors appointment today so took the opportunity to ask what the score was with booster shots.
I was told it was far to early to be even thinking about it, and they had received no guidance at all for when
when it is. So I guess at this stage Pfizer or A Z is irrelevant and we will have to wait and see what is on offer when the time comes.
I am in Ballarat. Landy

TheHeaths · Guru

I now understand Western Australia has stated that from today, over 60s have their choice of vaccine.

As far as I know that now means Northern Territory, South Australia and Western Australia offer this choice.

Seems that the receipt of good levels of supply are now seeing things improve for choice, at least in some states.

Brodie Allen · Guru

Well there you are!

All you garrulous talkback experts can now see below that as I said - over 60's
were denied Phizer after originally it having been recommended for "Those at
risk - healthcare workers and elderly," then being withdrawn because of supply
discrepancies. Too bad oldies - you're not at risk now. Goalposts moved.
And now due to supply strengthening the over 60's can now have the Phizer.

So as I said in my "rant", over 60's WERE denied!!!

Geez, some people just like to make dopes of themselves. Criticism for the sake of it.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/queensland/queenslanders-aged-over-60-to-be-offered-pfizer-jabs-20210915-p58rs3.html

"People aged over 60 will be able to opt for a Pfizer vaccination jab in Queensland from this weekend.

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk said the move was possible as supply of Pfizer from the
federal government had finally increased".

Whenarewethere · Guru

I got a AZ on Monday even though I was allowed to get Pfizer, didn't want to wait for another 30+ days for Pfizer.

Other half who is a bit older was only allowed to get AZ. There was a cancellation so she is getting Pf this afternoon.

msg · Guru

May be OK to have choice in some states but not all.

Plain Truth · Guru

yobarr wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
Greg 1 wrote:
First off I am double vaccinated with AZ having taken the view that the best vaccine is the one available now. That said, I would have liked to be given the choice, not be barred from that purely due to my age.
Greg: like 99.5% of us you do not have the knowledge in order to make that choice with any degree of competence. This is why we accept medical opinion from our GPs or the national medical bodies.
Had the choice been available what criteria would you have used to make it? Stuff you read on the internet or heard on the news? It is only because of internet and press beat-ups that this matter is even a discussion, I certainly do not recall, ever, there being a debate about which tetanus or influenza vaccine individuals preferred.
I'll wager that same 99.5% don't even *know* if there is a choice of influenza vaccine yet they happily accept it into their body then smile politely and say "Thank you" afterwards.
The internet has a lot to answer for.
Few truer words ever spoken,Mike.Many people seem to have an alarming inability to evaluate risk v benefit,so that when one sheep says "Baaaa" all the other sheep say "Baaaa". In case anyone missed previous posts,I will again say that the chances of dying in a road accident are infinitely greater than any risks associated with the Covid vaccine. Cheers

Plain Truth · Guru

To many faulty comparisons, comparing covid deaths to road accidents, utterly futile

You even see them comparing eating a hotdog,because you don't know what you are eating,to not taking a vaccine because you don't know what is in it.

So you

These people are under a delusion

Plain Truth · Guru

This is the scaremongering we have to put up with.

scare mongring.JPG

msg · Guru

According to ATAGI

Pfizer efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 is about 95% after two doses.
AstraZeneca efficacy against symptomatic COVID-19 ranges from about 62% to 73%,
The risk of ongoing health issues and death from COVID-19 is highest in older age groups, particularly rising from 50 years of age.
So who really should have access to the greater efficacy vaccine?
Also,
70-79yrs Estimated Rate of incidence of Blood clots at 2.1 per 100,000 is very close to those of <50yrs at 2.2 per 100,000. So, risk of blood clots is not a good reason for the age cut off.

That, although these figures in ATAGIs words are imprecise it would a miniscule difference in the rate. .1 per 100,000 variance overall.

IMO when an old person dies of blood clots it could easily be attributed to old age blood clots and not investigated as Thrombosis and Thrombocytopenia Syndrome (TTS).

The figures could well be skewed ever further. I wonder how often that has happened.

Immune Thrombocytopenia (Different to TTS)
ATAGI report ATAGI continues to review and closely monitor reports of rare but potentially serious adverse events following immunisation with AstraZeneca, including Immune Thrombocytopenia (ITP). It is important for those vaccinated to be aware of some of the symptoms that may be associated with ITP, such as easy bruising and bleeding from the nose or gums.

Well, IMO this may not be identified as Immune Thromboctopenia up in older Australians because the medications they are likely to be on can cause these symptions. In how many cases were clots in elderly deceased persons mistaken for age related deaths?

Guillain-Barre Syndrome
ATAGI continues to review and closely monitor reports of rare but potentially serious adverse events following immunisation with AstraZeneca, including Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS). ATAGI say it is important for those vaccinated to be aware of some of the symptoms that may be associated with GBS, such as:
muscle weakness
unusual sensation (numbness, pins and needles) and
unsteadiness while walking.
ATAGI notes this condition can occur in the absence of vaccination and that investigations into whether the reported events are causally linked to vaccination is ongoing.

Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS) can happen to anyone, but its most common in people 50 years old or older.

IMO, this is a very nasty incapacitating disease and once again closely linked to ageing and therefore not likely to be noted as covid related in older people.

That's from the horse's mouth. and they are only the concerns they are talking about.

-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 15th of September 2021 04:39:01 PM

Are We Lost · Guru

msg,

I am looking at the first 2 sentences of your post comparing efficacy of Astrazeneca vs Pfizer. Presumably the study reported by ATAGI is this one:

Public Health England - Effectiveness of vaccines against hospital admission

This was published in June (now a little old) and looked at the effectiveness of the vaccines against hospitalisations. Yet you chose to cherrypick the results and quoted the efficacy rates which were the figures from trials. Real world effectiveness is quite different.

The purpose of that report was effectiveness, and they showed very similar results for both vaccines. Pfizer had a slight edge with 96% effectiveness and AstraZeneca 92%. However, you have probably seen a few articles on Pfizer apparently wearing off faster ... still too early to be sure. Both have minisculke risk side effects.

So, which is better? Hard to say.

Just take what you can without delay as that strategy has less risk to your health than waiting for a vaccine of your choice.

And an important point to consider:

Your post may mislead people into believing that it is better to wait for their choice of vaccine. How would you feel if you found out that someone chose to delay vaccination because of that, then became a Covid statistic in the meantime?

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
msg,

I am looking at the first 2 sentences of your post comparing efficacy of Astrazeneca vs Pfizer. Presumably the study reported by ATAGI is this one:

Public Health England - Effectiveness of vaccines against hospital admission

This was published in June (now a little old) and looked at the effectiveness of the vaccines against hospitalisations. Yet you chose to cherrypick the results and quoted the efficacy rates which were the figures from trials. Real world effectiveness is quite different.
The purpose of that report was effectiveness, and they showed very similar results for both vaccines. Pfizer had a slight edge with 96% effectiveness and AstraZeneca 92%. However, you have probably seen a few articles on Pfizer apparently wearing off faster ... still too early to be sure. Both have minisculke risk side effects.
So, which is better? Hard to say.
Just take what you can without delay as that strategy has less risk to your health than waiting for a vaccine of your choice.
And an important point to consider:
Your post may mislead people into believing that it is better to wait for their choice of vaccine. How would you feel if you found out that someone chose to delay vaccination because of that, then became a Covid statistic in the meantime?

Thanks Stephen,for pointing out the truth.You can fool some of the people all of the time,and all of the people some of the time.But you will never fool all of the people all of the time.Cherry picking test results in an effort to 'prove' a point is an exercise in stupidity.Cheers

ShortNorth · Senior Member

msg wrote:
According to ATAGI

........................ previous text deleted

Guillain-Barre Syndrome
ATAGI continues to review and closely monitor reports of rare but potentially serious adverse events following immunisation with AstraZeneca, including Guillain-Barre Syndrome (GBS). ATAGI say it is important for those vaccinated to be aware of some of the symptoms that may be associated with GBS, such as:
muscle weakness
unusual sensation (numbness, pins and needles) and
unsteadiness while walking.
ATAGI notes this condition can occur in the absence of vaccination and that investigations into whether the reported events are causally linked to vaccination is ongoing.

Guillain-Barre syndrome (GBS) can happen to anyone, but its most common in people 50 years old or older.
IMO, this is a very nasty incapacitating disease and once again closely linked to ageing and therefore not likely to be noted as covid related in older people.
That's from the horse's mouth. and they are only the concerns they are talking about.
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 15th of September 2021 04:39:01 PM

GBS is VERY real - my wife had a swine flu injection (at the time it was listed as containing H1N1) in 2009 (required by her employer as she was a high school teacher at the time) - within days she had most of the effects of GBS and after discussing with her GP was told to be very wary of any future flu shots.

Two years later she had another flu shot (again as a school teacher) - this had a very marked effect with the GBS symptoms at about 300% stronger - upon investigation by the GP, he found that that injection contained H1N1, but it was NOT listed as a component of the vaccine for that year. After further investigation by both the GP and the leading GBS specialist in Brisbane, she was told she was NEVER TO HAVE ANOTHER FLU (OR SIMILAR) Injection for the rest of her life - the possibility of another injection killing her was quoted at around 80-90%. Her life as a school teacher ceased just after this, as the risk of the disease being exaggerated by attending school was too great.

Since COVID, her specialist has stated that if she had a Pfizer, Astrazenica or Moderna injection, it would in all probability be fatal.

As well as being her husband, I'm also her primary carer and I have to constantly monitor her so she is not exposed to risk of flu or similar situations.

Yes, as stated above, GBS is a very nasty incapacitating disease. We have curtailed our vanning during the COVID crisis to avoid any risk. Depending on how long the COVID pandemic goes for, maybe we might never be able to go vanning ever again !

Brian

oldbloke · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
First off I am double vaccinated with AZ having taken the view that the best vaccine is the one available now.

Agree.

However, can someone please explain why my left arm now buzzes when I travel within a few km of a mobile tower?

BTW, I'm serious. biggrin

Possum3 · Guru

oldbloke wrote:

However, can someone please explain why my left arm now buzzes when I travel within a few km of a mobile tower?

That may be the "Tracking 5G chip" that the Missus put in.

Brodie Allen · Guru

All very interesting but entirely off the theme of the thread.

Over 60's denied Phizer to bolster supplies to another age group.

Age discrimination at it's worst.

Don't you see?

Don't you care?

TheHeaths · Guru

Unfortunately Brodie it has happened, but now is rectifying with the increasing availability of all the vaccines.

Is it right. Probably not!

Do I care. To an extent, but as a reasonable alternate was available, went with that. I am glad I have, and am afraid I am not upset about this enough to raise it with my local members.

As you have found out that often achieves little if anything. Will it change how I vote next time, probably not. Other aspects of the Covid response will make me consider my vote, as I consider them more important long term.

In the meantime, what did and have you done for yourself with respect to vaccination?

oldbloke · Guru

Possum3 wrote:
oldbloke wrote:

However, can someone please explain why my left arm now buzzes when I travel within a few km of a mobile tower?

That may be the "Tracking 5G chip" that the Missus put in.

Do you really think its a 5G chip? The Mrs does get angry. But I don't think she wants to track me.

Will a tin hat help? Xtra large alfoil is on special at Coles this week. Then I can make a DIY. :)

Possum3 · Guru

oldbloke wrote:
That may be the "Tracking 5G chip" that the Missus put in.
Do you really think its a 5G chip? The Mrs does get angry. But I don't think she wants to track me.

Will a tin hat help? Xtra large alfoil is on special at Coles this week. Then I can make a DIY. :)

The foil hat may work - note I have found that when they are fashioned into a tricorn hat they seem to be most effective - then you will be in step with a few regular forum posters at least.

oldbloke · Guru

Why didn't I think of a tin foil trickrn hat. How silly of me. What about a tin foil cape too?

I'll use this one as a pattern. smile

Whenarewethere · Guru

Last Monday I had Astrazeneca, under 60. On Wednesday other half, over 60, got Pfizer due to a cancellation.

We have not bitten the dust at this point in time.

We both have had a few mild side effects, chills & mild fever, but rather that than being in hospital or a crematorium.

We will both wait 12 weeks for the maximum benefit for the second dose, yes, Pfizer as well, if you do your research. We will avoid people to the best of our ability to minimise risk.

I haven't seen my as Sister & family since the start of 2020 even though they live 5.1km away.

Kev Pearce · Senior Member

This is a bit old now for commenting on, but people"in the know" (ie in the health industry) say Pfizer leads to three times the problems encountered with Astra. I have had Astra and was horribly ill for one night. I don't trust any of them but thought getting vaccinated was potentially better than not being vaccinated.

peatop · Senior Member

oldbloke wrote:
can someone please explain why my left arm now buzzes when I travel within a few km of a mobile tower?

Armed but not dangerous ?? foil doesn't work! That was just propergander put out by the manufacturers to sell more foil, try 3ply lead, mercury, lead it may not stop the buzz but it cant hurt biggrin oh and don't forget to say Baaa Baaa 3 time to turn it on!

But in answer to the original thread. Not right that's for sure.

Whenarewethere · Guru

A steel box stops buzzing if welded closed from the inside.

Brodie Allen · Guru

Greg 1 wrote:
First off I am double vaccinated with AZ having taken the view that the best vaccine is the one available now. That said, I would have liked to be given the choice, not be barred from that purely due to my age. In any other circumstances I am sure that the anti discrimination commissioner would have something to say.

EXACTLY. That was the message of my post.

Refreshing to find one brain on the forum.

All the other guff from the DHeads demonstrates the reason Oz is in the trouble we're in.