Too many people out there looking for problems. I had this in a very large company I worked for.

First EV to visit all States around Australia unsupported & across the Nullarbor was 2018. As each month goes by it's getting easier.

People are just getting on with it.

In our block of Units each Unit had 3 phase 22kW instantaneous hot water systems & another two IHWS in the common laundry, 17 in total. Over the years a lot of owners have replaced these with tanks.

So instead of a whole pile of showers firing up in the morning in one go there will be capacity to charge cars.

Also the charging will be smart networked. If you don't need the power urgently you will get it at a cheaper rate when there is spare capacity.

Us fortunate garage owners have all installed 3 phase in our garages, $500ea for the additional wiring, & we have factored in a common charging area for the other residents when the need arises. We did this in 2016.

Whenarewethere wrote:

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Too many people out there looking for problems. I had this in a very large company I worked for.

First EV to visit all States around Australia unsupported & across the Nullarbor was 2018. As each month goes by it's getting easier.

People are just getting on with it.

In our block of Units each Unit had 3 phase 22kW instantaneous hot water systems & another two IHWS in the common laundry, 17 in total. Over the years a lot of owners have replaced these with tanks.

So instead of a whole pile of showers firing up in the morning in one go there will be capacity to charge cars.

Also the charging will be smart networked. If you don't need the power urgently you will get it at a cheaper rate when there is spare capacity.

Us fortunate garage owners have all installed 3 phase in our garages, $500ea for the additional wiring, & we have factored in a common charging area for the other residents when the need arises. We did this in 2016.

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 I dont think that there are people out there looking for problems.

You obviously did not read the above text.

A spokesperson from Toyota advised a senate committee that in most communities throughout the world there wont exist the infrastructure to be able to supply the electricity required for charging vehicles.

While your block of units may have considered the on site upgrade in anticipation, the reality according to the report is that there wont be the infrastructure to be able to supply the power.

At a personal level solar may suffice on a sunny day, wind power is not something that can be harnessed on a personal level unless you own a farm, the current power stations in most cases wont handle the load and they aren't green anyway, so their use to charge your car will negate any gain that you may think you will have in buying and operating an electric vehicle.

To quote the quote from the bottom of the document.

YOU CAN IGNORE REALITY, BUT YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IGNORING REALITY!

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

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The availability of renewable power will change very rapidly. Unlike traditional power stations, new capacity can be built VERY fast. You could order a new EV today and have 10kW of new solar on your roof before the new car was delivered.
Even now, SA is switching off solar and wind regularly because the supply exceeds the demand.
What we need is pumped hydro storage to be built faster to balance the grid in times of shortage. Snowy 2 is just that, and there are others available and coming too, but we need lots more.
In the mean time, it won't take long for charging to be made available in car parks so people can charge while shopping or at work during the day.
These things have a habit of working themselves out fairly seamlessly.
Cheers,
Peter

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 Hi Peter,

SA switching off solar and wind in my mind is irresponsible if we are to meet the expectations of others overseas.

In reality SA cant store their claimed excess. This will be an ongoing problem. We need a *bigger battery.*

In recent times it has been indicated on here and in other media that the SA power costs are much higher than most of the other states. Maybe they should sell it interstate.

While it is a great idea to have electricity bowsers ( we will come up with another word ) in carparks the spokesman for Toyota is advising that many countries just do not have the ability to provide that commodity in the volume the world will require.

To jump in without covering all the possibilities for both success and failure will result in the exercise costing someone a lot of money.
In our case in Aus it will unfortunately be the taxpayer.

Because of the decline in the use of fossil fuels being petrol and diesel,  that price will increase substantially and electricity prices will substantially increase as well with the need to build massive infrastructure to generate, store and transmit power.

My views and thoughts are that, by all means investigate develop and introduce electric vehicles and other options to supplement our endeavour to meet a

*green* tag but if we try to do it in a time frame that is presently unachievable will be at our own peril in Australia.

Discussing EV's with a Canadian Friend his comment......Over here the cost of insurance for an EV is over $4,000 per year ...that's a lotta $. This year we paid about $500 for insurance for our Pacifica SUV..

Wonder what will be the Insurance cost of Hydrogen Fueled Vehicles

These same old arguments would have been used when cars were replacing horses and carriages. Some people are just too old to change.

 

And yes Mike, I would gladly pay a tax to help climate change but not while my taxes are also being used to subsidies super rich people and the companies that produce climate change. Oh yeah, if the money spent on those subsidies was used for green initatives, then we wouldn't have to pay extra taxes. 

Peter_n_Margaret wrote:

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Several States have already established a road tax to start for EVs in a few years.
2.5c per km.
Not much in the scheme of things (compared with fuel tax) and they will still be a mile cheaper to run than an ICE and almost no maintenance required.
Cheers,
Peter

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 Hi Peter,

I indicated my thoughts on this in another post.

this is what I said:

*100 kilometres traveled by a vehicle on a road requires the same road maintenance wether it is running on petrol, electricity, or processed urine.

It wont matter how economical Mr Manufacturer will make these vehicles run, the simple fact is for ever 100 kilometres, the govt responsible for maintenance of the road infrastructure will want, demand, and charge the required amount and that amount is called Tax.*

With reference to your 2.5 cents tax I also made mention in the other post of the govt slug that so many of us experienced in Australia when operating an LPG fuelled vehicle.

The use of LPG was promoted on so many levels as being a clean alternative ( was the green word around then, I don't think so). But low and behold, in one swoop the price of LPG copped a tax to cover a shortfall. Maybe we should call it a * designed shortfall* which made the use of an LPG vehicle extremely attractive. It was so attractive that some vehicle manufacturers actually made dedicated and switched alternative options so as to take advantage of the lower price of the LPG.

Your mention of the existence of a 2.5 cents per kilometre sounds, and probably is cheap.

If this figure is maintained, how is it collected. The collection of road tax was unmanageable in the 1940s in Australia. It would be impossible now.

Will this 2.5cents be calculated into the price of the electricity to power cars and based on the vehicles fuel use and if so how is this collected from the home user as opposed to a bowser situation where a retailer is made responsible for the dispensing and collection of all monies including government taxes.

And then comes the crunch, at what point in numbers does a government then decide to apply a tax which is actually commensurate with the cost of the maintenance of the infrastructure of its roads.

The next generation will need to be hanging on pretty tightly when the electric car that in good faith was to*save the world*, but all its introduction has done is to create a financial nightmare for our grandchildren.

 

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Saturday 13th of November 2021 10:56:50 AM

Well said.

Peter,
NZ has managed road tax like that for years. I was aware but only though it was applicable to trucks.

So simple but,

In Australia we have a collection of several states.
Those states have been and to my knowledge still are basically responsible for road infrastructure maintenance. Not withstanding that for many projects of new construction, the Federal government puts its hand in its pocket generally with a percentage which the value of such has to be met by the states. This system is not etched in stone.

In the 1940s this method did not work in Australia, thus the introduction of the IS (interstate) plates. Due to massive complications in operation this system has now been proven generally not to work and the road tax is collected in the cost of the fuel. The problems are too many to go into here.
Mind you though, our government never lets a chance go by to grab a handful of tax.
I might suggest when you are talking to a truck owner next time you offer to pay for the registration on his truck and trailers.
This really has nothing to do with this debate apart from indicating that the govt can place a tax on anything and for any reason that will pass through parliament.

If this 2.5 cents is not maintained as happened with LPG what will the price be when increased?

Will the electric vehicle suffer the same demise as the LPG vehicle? Obvously some manufacturers put faith in their development only for them to be rendered as expensive to operate as a petrol or diesel vehicle?

Will the owner of the electric car suffer the same fate.?

The infrastructure for charging will solve itself as the sales of EVs increase.
Commercial reality makes businesses keen to satisfy any need the public has, whether that is for charging stations or hamburgers.
When the Stuart Highway was realigned and bituminised, the need for new fuel outlets was recognised instantly and they were built before the road was even complete.
Cheers,
Peter

You need a self contained EV charge station in a remote location (or anywhere else?), you can have it "next week".
Not ideal, but no "infrastructure" required.
thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-evs-remote-locations-greener-than-you-think/
2 weeks after installing one of these on the Stuart Highway, that servo will order enough solar and batteries to do the job. That might take 2 months to be installed. No infrastructure required.
This is the great beauty of renewable energy. You can install it very quickly and have it very close to where the power is required. No infrastructure required.
I have enough solar on my house for an EV. I almost give it away. Many people are in the same situation. They can all run EVs now without any change to any infrastructure.
Cheers,
Peter

"That is correct Peter,but it is not difficult to rort that system by simply winding back the 'Hobo' (hubodometer) that is supposed to measure the kilometres travelled.Don't ask me how I know this,but it happens! Cheers "

People drive unregistered vehicles, but they often get caught too.

It is more difficult to mess with modern vehicles that it used to be.

Cheers,

Peter

Whenarewethere wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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it is not difficult to rort that system by simply winding back the 'Hobo' (hubodometer) that is supposed to measure the kilometres travelled.

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 I tried winding the odometer back on my Land Rover by driving in reverse, but it nevertheless still adds kilometres.

 Modern cars!

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 Hi Jonathan.That too can be sorted if you know the right people.I'm assuming it is digital? Cheers

There are all these discussions about different types of taxes. Road taxes are NOT spent on roads.

 

The original idea of the GST was that it would replace all taxes. It seemed so simple. Then States refused to faze out different state revenue and certain goods and services were also exempt. Now a bunch of old far¥s are arguing over the poorly implemented tax system.

The important thing is that switching from ICE to EVs is one step to help the future by reducing CO2 emissions.