Climate Change! Cows and Cars or maybe something else.

Rob Driver · Guru

Climate Change! Cows and Cars or maybe something else.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

dogbox wrote:
dear BUZZ the fact that you use large print make you appear very aggressive

There was a discussion months, or maybe years, ago about the fonts used on this forum. Some said that they like the larger font because they can read it more easily. I certainly find the default font hard to read on my browser, OS and hardware combination.

I'm not trying to intimidate, I'm trying to make it easier to read.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:
(For the record, I am not a denier, but believe there are more urgent global issue that we should be focusing on).
@Rob,
You certainly demonstrate the characteristics of a climate denier. You continually refuse to see the bigger picture, you persistently concentrate on one small aspect, you present arguments that climate deniers present but you won't see that those arguments don't support what you hope to prove.

You certainly sound like a climate denier or, if you do believe in climate change, you are certainly presenting an anti-climate point of view. Is that just to make a profit because your business might be affected? The latter seems a bit selfish.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 22nd of November 2021 02:54:06 PM
I am not Rob and have not continually or persistently voiced my opinion on climate change. I do believe the climate is getting warmer, and probably humanity has contributed to that. Please show me where I have said anything that contradicts that.
My comment is that Australia can make negligible change. With 96% of emissions being natural, and Australia producing 1% of the humanity produced emissions, it is impossible for our efforts to achieve anything meaningful, except by setting an example (for the biggest polluters to ignore). To me population growth is the root cause of the emissions growth from humanity, and starvation due to popoulation growth is affecting millions now. That is what we should be focusing on.
Hence my question to you ....
What will our efforts actually achieve? You have shouted FACTS several times, but can you answer that simple question with such a fact?

-- Edited by Are We Lost on Monday 22nd of November 2021 07:09:57 PM

I apologise. That was a case of mistaken identity. Please accept my apology.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
Well Dorian,

I am flattered that you think I am a Professor but I can tell you I certainly dont have that level of tertiary study.

Once again, and it happens with anything that is thrown up on either side of the climate, global warming, C02 level argument, that there is a debunking theory for each piece of information. Accompanied with the debunking there is always the discrediting of the author or scientist.
I was a bit slow in typing this reply because I was going through Buzzs list on debunking articles but as I waded through the rubbish (my view) I note that with many of them there is no real credibility. Others can read and analyse that information and form their own opinions.

When anyone uses the term *As I understand it* to lead into the explanation of that individuals views then it is no more or no less in true meaning than anyone else with a view.

I wonder if all the theories of global warming from learned people would even be challenged if we didnt have a group of individuals that are being brain washed into thinking that a tax on the worlds population and passing this tax on to anyone who applies, will fix their perceived problem.

By all means if you really do believe that a fistful of dollars will fix it then write them a cheque, but to include everyone to provide investment money so that a few get rich is not my way of thinking and it is not my way to be leaving that debt to our grandchildren.

The pushing of Man made global warming is a convenient way to get the gullible onto a guilt trip so as to extract this money from them.

@Dorian,

I'm ready to give up. Like a true climate denier Rob is never, ever going to be convinced.

As I said before it's like watching someone drilling holes into the bottom of a leaky boat to let the water out.

I don't think that he'll ever see the truth no matter what he's presented. However, please feel free to keep trying. It's nice to see that the climate deniers are not the only ones voicing his or her opinions.

dorian · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:

I don't think that he'll ever see the truth no matter what he's presented. However, please feel free to keep trying. It's nice to see that the climate deniers are not the only ones voicing his or her opinions.

I'm not really voicing an opinion. I'm merely pointing out what NASA actually said in their article as opposed to what others think they said.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

There are a multitude of sources of information to explain the affects of climate change. However, I just found this one that seems to provide a very good summary of most issues:

https://theconversation.com/the-science-everyone-needs-to-know-about-climate-change-in-6-charts-170556

dorian · Guru

Who cares?

https://www.lufthansa-technik.com/documents/5875801/7355762/EXPLORER+VIP+cabin+concept+Dubai+Airshow+2021+%28FullHD+02%29/ed15aebe-5a04-4fd1-8ada-84a0aa634cc7?t=1636481654431

https://www.lufthansa-technik.com/press-releases/-/asset_publisher/Xix57wMv0mow/content/explorer-vip-concept-dubai-airshow-2021?_101_INSTANCE_5cSbhaGarZET_redirect=%2Fmedia

Mike Harding · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Like a true climate denier

Are they like holocaust deniers?

Rob Driver · Guru

Buzz Blownbulb wrote

As I said before it's like watching someone drilling holes into the bottom of a leaky boat to let the water out.

Yes Buzz,

It is like watching someone pouring money into the pockets of unknown organisations in the warped belief that their money will get China, India and some other countries to stop polluting our air.

Even your so called experts are constantly asking for money when reading their one sided rubbish.

*CLICK HERE TO DONATE*

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

The donation link was for the website not the author of the article.

Blues Man · Guru

My *CLICK HERE TO DONATE* link didn't work smile smile

yobarr · Guru

Are We Lost wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Are We Lost wrote:
(For the record, I am not a denier, but believe there are more urgent global issue that we should be focusing on).
@Rob,
You certainly demonstrate the characteristics of a climate denier. You continually refuse to see the bigger picture, you persistently concentrate on one small aspect, you present arguments that climate deniers present but you won't see that those arguments don't support what you hope to prove.

You certainly sound like a climate denier or, if you do believe in climate change, you are certainly presenting an anti-climate point of view. Is that just to make a profit because your business might be affected? The latter seems a bit selfish.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 22nd of November 2021 02:54:06 PM
I am not Rob and have not continually or persistently voiced my opinion on climate change. I do believe the climate is getting warmer, and probably humanity has contributed to that. Please show me where I have said anything that contradicts that.
My comment is that Australia can make negligible change. With 96% of emissions being natural,and Australia producing 1% of the humanity produced emissions,it is impossible for our efforts to achieve anything meaningful,except by setting an example (for the biggest polluters to ignore). To me population growth is the root cause of the emissions growth from humanity, and starvation due to popoulation growth is affecting millions now. That is what we should be focusing on.
Hence my question to you ....
What will our efforts actually achieve? You have shouted FACTS several times, but can you answer that simple question with such a fact?

At last a bit of truth and commonsense.If Australia ever achieved 100% renewables,which will NEVER happen,the reduction in emissions would be a miserable 1%. Lots of Hoo Haa about nothing,while the biggest contributors,China and India,are doing zilch. Too much thinking involved,apparently, for some? Cheers

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

China is not going to change industrial habits until China is ready. Anything they say will only be what they think the world wants to hear.

Australia could stop existing tomorrow and it would make no difference to any air pollution or global warming or ice melting that may be currently happening.

Taxes fees and buckets of dollars wont fix it.

yobarr · Guru

Clarky 1 wrote:
China is not going to change industrial habits until China is ready. Anything they say will only be what they think the world wants to hear.

Australia could stop existing tomorrow and it would make no difference to any air pollution or global warning or ice meltingthat may be currently happening.

TAXES AND BUCKETS OF DOLLARS WON'T FIX IT.

Now, that's telling it the way it is! However,trying to make hordes of brainwashed sheep understand those facts is an exercise in futility.Cheers

-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 28th of November 2021 06:29:25 PM

Santa · Guru

Clarky 1 wrote:
China is not going to change industrial habits until China is ready. Anything they say will only be what they think the world wants to hear.

Australia could stop existing tomorrow and it would make no difference to any air pollution or global warming or ice melting that may be currently happening.

Taxes fees and buckets of dollars wont fix it.

Preaching to the converted Clarky. wink

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

Santa wrote:
Clarky 1 wrote:
China is not going to change industrial habits until China is ready. Anything they say will only be what they think the world wants to hear.

Australia could stop existing tomorrow and it would make no difference to any air pollution or global warming or ice melting that may be currently happening.

Taxes fees and buckets of dollars wont fix it.
Preaching to the converted Clarky.

biggrin biggrin We should have a little emotive with someone banging there head on a wall.

dorian · Guru

Let's say half of all the countries in the world each contribute 1% to global emissions. As a group they would then contribute 50%. If each member of the group decided that their individual contribution was not worth doing anything about, then their global impact would rival that of the big emitters.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

TheHeaths · Guru

Australia ranks 17th in the world for total CO2 emissions.

Of the countries above us, only one, being Canada, has a higher per capita figure than us. We have the 10th highest per capita figure in the world, higher than countries such as China, the US, Russia, most of Europe and many other developed nations. Many of those with higher per capita figures than us are OPEC countries!

Some plan to reduce our emissions towards the lower end of per capita figures would be beneficial, and allow us to take a more forthright stand in asking others to reduce their emissions.

We shouldnt sacrifice our country to achieve this, but should be able to see that improvements that benefit the planet are sensible.

And you dont have to be a brainwashed sheep to understand that wanting to improve the environment for all is not a ridiculous goal!

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

@dorian,

not hard to comprehend at all.
Isnt it a shame that until China and some others change there industrial practices then nothing is going to change.

@ Heath, the figures are subject to where the readings were taken. A c02 gauge on Pitt St in peak hour will give you a high c02 reading. I would imagine that it would be physically impossible to get a true reading. When creating figures do we ever see this per capital population that is being regularly quoted actually compared to the square land area of Australia.
Go out in the bush camping with your c02 gauge and check the reading.

I have been to China and Hong Kong and there is a long way to go for countries like Australia to have that pollution.
You and some others just dismiss that the situation wont change until China India and some other countries change there habits.

As I have said, while China maintains its current practices, Taxes, Fees, and buckets of money wont fix this.

Brainwashed? I dont think so,
Having a practical view is how I describe myself.

TheHeaths · Guru

Clarky 1,

1) I never suggested you were brainwashed. I was responding to a comment from Yobarr about those who hold different views to his, in this case those who feel there may be room for improvement in our handling of the environment.

2) I never dismissed the Chinese, or other big polluters influence on the world. They need to improve. So do we. Per person, we are worse than those countries I mentioned. Is that something to be happy about? What is wrong with finding a better way and trying to improve our home?

3) The figures I mentioned talk about tonnes per country and tonnes per person of CO2 based on industrial emissions. They are not tonnes per hectare/acre/squ meter or any other density type reading. Just because we are a big country, with a small population doesnt mean we are not at some fault. Just because you cant see it doesnt mean we are beyond improving.

All I have said is that doing better is a reasonable aim. Your so called practical view is until they change, why should we. I disagree with that approach. Youre entitled to that.

Perhaps one way to look at it would be that apart from weapons and war, doing things better, and improving things has generally been good for people!

Clarky 1 · Senior Member

I agree that we are polluting our world, c02 is just one aspect.

Unfortunately emotional demands placed on the rest of us will not change China or India.

There are many actions that we can take to help.
Limit urban development. Recycle. Stop making plastics. Plant trees and provide large green belts. Develop efficient transport for moving people and dare anyone say it, the use of Nuclear power.
Generally just think about what we are all doing. I could go on and on about led globes and the like, you know the story.

Another thing which is not that amusing is that we in Aus have all but eliminated our production and manufacturing industries and now we are all quite happy to buy those goods from the very countries that are polluting our world. Isnt that funny. NOT.
For those demanding that we all send money to a bottomless pit to fix the climate or seasons how about you stop buying almost everything you are currently buying.
Let your supply of Chinese junk for Xmas gifts take a big hit. We all know that wont happen.

What I am saying and it seems to be the thoughts of some others is that China and the other offenders are not going to change until they are ready.

If anyone could tell us how our 1% Australia throwing money at dubious organisations can possibly turn China into the climate of Nth Qld. while we continue to buy the very goods that are being produced in the offending countries.
My view is that China and others wont change so our best bet to help is to consider seriously things that we CAN do that will help, as of my suggestions above as an example.

By all means let developers design and build electric cars if in the long term they will be produced as a product that is truly environmentally friendly. Not only in running the car but the building and the environmental management of the waste when the care is worn out.
Taxes and Buckets full of money given to developers encourage nothing. Let these innovative entrepenors pay for there own development, after all they will ge the ones that make the profit when we all run to the showroom to buy there cars.

China is laughing at the rest of the world, some can see it and some cant.

Peter_n_Margaret · Guru

I supect some are under rating the progress in India and China.
The world's 3 largest solar farms are in China, India and China respectively.
The humble tuk-tuk? There are 1.5 million electric ones in India.
China is the biggest adopter of electric cars in the world.

Don't use the percieved inactivity by others as an excuse not to act now. This requires that all of us do our bit.
Cheers,
Peter

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

This is part of a report from the COP26:

'Some big emitters, including the European Union, Japan, the UK and the US, significantly deepened how much they say they will cut emissions by the end of the decade. China and India upped their ambition, but their emissions will still rise this decade. Many other sizeable polluters, including Australia, Brazil and Indonesia, didnt issue improved plans.'

Those who are saying China and India are doing nothing appear to be wrong. It seems that Australia is one the culprits doing nothing.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 29th of November 2021 02:06:46 PM

Rob Driver · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
This is part of a report from the COP26:

'Some big emitters, including the European Union, Japan, the UK and the US, significantly deepened how much they say they will cut emissions by the end of the decade. China and India upped their ambition, but their emissions will still rise this decade. Many other sizeable polluters, including Australia, Brazil and Indonesia, didnt issue improved plans.'

Those who are saying China and India are doing nothing appear to be wrong. It seems that Australia is one the culprits doing nothing.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 29th of November 2021 02:06:46 PM

Buzz,

Did you actually read what you copied from that meeting?

*deepened how much they say they will cut emissions by the end of the decade* No promises there!

*China and India upped their ambition, but their emissions will still rise this decade. * What a complete Gem this is.

*Many other sizeable polluters, including Australia*, What the 1%ers.

*Those who are saying China and India are doing nothing appear to be wrong.* Oh come on Buzz, their development in anything is based around money and profit they dont give a Rats Lightbulb about pollution, just go to China and have a look. They are telling the gullible in the world what they think they want to hear.

It seems that Australia is one the culprits doing nothing. Really, you must really get out more and have a look around. Maybe we could up our ambitions just like China.

Buzz you and some others can continue to come up with how bad Australia is with regard to pollution and how good all these countries that are lined up with their money grabbing hands out for our money to fix their problem but none of you can address any of the simple facts that have been suggested nor can any of you explain how sending money to some dodgy mob with the pretence of fixing the planet in 10 years will work.

The simple fact is, you cant explain how this will work to stop China and others from polluting and to rely on emotional pleas or threats by using questionable information from unsubstantiated sources might be making you feel all fuzzy but in the real world none of this is anywhere near convincing at the present time.

Rob Driver · Guru

Clarky 1 wrote:
I agree that we are polluting our world, c02 is just one aspect.

Unfortunately emotional demands placed on the rest of us will not change China or India.

There are many actions that we can take to help.
Limit urban development. Recycle. Stop making plastics. Plant trees and provide large green belts. Develop efficient transport for moving people and dare anyone say it, the use of Nuclear power.
Generally just think about what we are all doing. I could go on and on about led globes and the like, you know the story.

Another thing which is not that amusing is that we in Aus have all but eliminated our production and manufacturing industries and now we are all quite happy to buy those goods from the very countries that are polluting our world. Isnt that funny. NOT.
For those demanding that we all send money to a bottomless pit to fix the climate or seasons how about you stop buying almost everything you are currently buying.
Let your supply of Chinese junk for Xmas gifts take a big hit. We all know that wont happen.

What I am saying and it seems to be the thoughts of some others is that China and the other offenders are not going to change until they are ready.

If anyone could tell us how our 1% Australia throwing money at dubious organisations can possibly turn China into the climate of Nth Qld. while we continue to buy the very goods that are being produced in the offending countries.
My view is that China and others wont change so our best bet to help is to consider seriously things that we CAN do that will help, as of my suggestions above as an example.

By all means let developers design and build electric cars if in the long term they will be produced as a product that is truly environmentally friendly. Not only in running the car but the building and the environmental management of the waste when the care is worn out.
Taxes and Buckets full of money given to developers encourage nothing. Let these innovative entrepenors pay for there own development, after all they will ge the ones that make the profit when we all run to the showroom to buy there cars.

China is laughing at the rest of the world, some can see it and some cant.

Hi Clarky 1

One of the best posts I have read on how it really is.

Many pundits in support of the bucket of money per pay period wont like those truths.

TheHeaths · Guru

You are correct Clarky 1.

CO2 is but one part of pollution. But it is the main one when considering possible changes in climate, as a greenhouse gas.

You are right about the many actions that we can and are taking. They are all positive efforts to improve our world as a place to live now there are over 7 billion of us.

I do not advocate giving unknown people a bucket of our money for unknown actions.

As you say we have done ourselves no favours with our diminishing of our manufacturing industries. I suggest you also stop buying from countries who you feel are polluting the world, as much that most of us buy comes from there, and as long as we all buy, we are all part of the issue.

As much as you dont like it, we are among the worst polluters with CO2 in the world, per person. We are worse than the Chinese, the US, Russia and many others as I pointed out. While it may only be a small overall part of the total tonnage of pollution, it makes it difficult to tell others to improve, when we are worse than them.

We are also in fact the 15th largest producer of CO2 by total tonnage as well, so we are at the top end in that regard anyway. When you look at the figures that way, those nations you say should start the process are quite able to point the finger and tell us to get our house in order first, just as you are to them.

All I say is lets try and lead the world.

dorian · Guru

CSIRO in race with Dutch corporate giant DSM to get low emissions cattle feed to market:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2021-11-30/competing-royal-dsm-csiro-technology-to-reduce-cattle-emissions/100650618

Australia's CSIRO is the Johnny-come-lately, the research minnow competing against a Dutch corporate giant, but they have grand ambitions.

In collaboration with Meat and Livestock Australia (MLA) and James Cook University (JCU) they have developed a product that cuts emissions in cows by 90 per cent.

Livestock farming and the meat industry are responsible for 18 per cent of total global greenhouse gas emissions.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Rob said 'you cant explain how this will work to stop China and others from polluting '

It's all been previously explained.

A global carbon trading scheme will cost those products that are producing CO2 more than those which are releasing less CO2. Then the more expensive and polluting products won't be able to compete with the less polluting products and therefore the manufacturing process will have to change to release less CO2 to avoid the carbon price and be competitive.

It's not that hard to understand.

Mike Harding · Guru

I'm still not hearing anyone proclaiming:

"Yes! I'd like to pay more taxes and have more expensive consumables in order to fight climate change!"

Rob Driver · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Rob said 'you cant explain how this will work to stop China and others from polluting '

It's all been previously explained.

A global carbon trading scheme will cost those products that are producing CO2 more than those which are releasing less CO2. Then the more expensive and polluting products won't be able to compete with the less polluting products and therefore the manufacturing process will have to change to release less CO2 to avoid the carbon price and be competitive.

It's not that hard to understand.

* I think I will start a global warming campaign, it appears that is where the money is.*

Buzz you have explained nothing.

Your solution above is nothing more than a dream.

Your group will send China a bill for producing goods that they currently sell to the rest of the world, including to the one percent Australia.

China are then happy to send that money to the very same dubious money pit that you, Buzz, want all Australians to contribute to.

So the purchase of your next plastic water pistol will be sourced from where did you say?
We could make them in Australia but at a cost that would be five times Chinas cost and then we have to pay a C02 tax ( yes it is plastic) and then the Australian retailer has to make a profit as well.

Buzz, it appears to me at least that you have no idea how any business works.

All COSTS including taxes and fees + PROFIT = STAYING IN BUSINESS.

A country and its economy is a business, it is not a bottomless pit of money that you and your likes think that the money grows on the money bush and can just be plucked every time one of you come up with some hair brained scheme.

When we go to China and can actually breathe then we might consider that China is doing something about pollution but until then, China is only concerned about China no matter what they say, or in your words,

* up their ambition * Isnt that the GEM OF QUOTES in this entire topic.