Climate Change! Cows and Cars or maybe something else.

Rob Driver · Guru

Climate Change! Cows and Cars or maybe something else.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
So Buzz you would close the floodgates and ruin the dam and then have no way to collect life saving water from that dam again (until it was rebuilt) rather than suffer flood which to a large degree is controllable by floodgates.
And you want us to adopt your way of saving the world.
You obviously have no idea about bushfires or floods.

Buzz, read the article by norto under the topic INOBTANIUM and then come back and tell us all a countrys economy is not a Business Case.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Friday 3rd of December 2021 02:16:41 PM

Obviously there is a balance but doing nothing about the problem will make things worse.

Have you seen the article about the anti-troll laws?

Social media companies could be forced to give out names and contact details, under new anti-troll laws

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-28/social-media-laws-online-trolls/100657004

I keep trying to provide information but frankly it's really a waste of time. You just keep on coming back with insults. Please be more civil when you reply.

See my previous post about Mark Mills.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Rob Driver wrote:
So Buzz,
You have had a bit of time to view the video in the topic UNOBTANIUM and you did read nortos post, so please answer this.

You said above:

The less each person consumes and the less each person contributes to CO2e emissions the longer we'll have to save this catastrophe.

Just take a minute Buzz, to check the labels attached to your clothing, your shoes, a large number of the country of origin of your caravan components and accessories.
Check your fishing gear, your tools, the tools and uniforms of your local garage serviceman, their clothes, their office supplies.
Check the shelves at Bunnings, Mitre 10, Home Hardware check the items that you may have purchased in the last year or so.
Check your electronics and the components that they are made from. We could continue on.

But lets hope you fix this right now.

STOP BUYING THESE ITEMS BUZZ YOU ARE RUINING OUR PLANET.

Will you explain to your wife / partner children and grandchildren that the gifts under the tree this year will be limited to items not made using fossil fuels for industrial power.

Oh wait a minute, you have no children as by having them you are adding to the pollution due to over population of the planet.

Oh wait a minute again Buzz, according to you the overpopulation is caused by third world countries having babies. I am glad we are all ok and we arent to blame for having our children and grandchildren.

You must see how ridiculous and impractical your theories are out in the real world.

By all means be aware that we humans can affect our environment but the fix does not lay with unsubstantiated theories.

Plant a tree Buzz. and help the planet.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Friday 3rd of December 2021 03:02:06 PM

Another personal attack. I'll do my best to answer your questions.

Labels? Irrelevant.

I minimise my purchases. My phone is five years old and, although it has been repaired twice, it still works.

Like previous years there are no Christmas presents under the tree.

I do have children before I realised the burden on the world. My children are well educated and do not have children of their own.

There are plenty of ignorant people in developed countries who have too many children however, as I said, the developed countries have next to zero population growth. Educated people seem to realise the crisis that we are in.

As mentioned before, and I quoted the IPCC, climate change is a fact.

TheHeaths · Guru

A number of people here could do worse than read a book called

Factfulness - Ten reasons were wrong about the world - and why things are better than you think.

Written by Hans Rosling.

I do not put it out there as an answer to things, but simply as a book that presents a different way to look at and consider aspects of our world. I found it interesting and to some extent enlightening, particularly where there may be some well entrenched ideas on what is wrong with the world.

It does not deal with things like climate, population or crime directly, yet does give food for thought on it all.

Read it. It may just make you think a bit differently or deeper about issues.

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 3rd of December 2021 03:44:34 PM

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 3rd of December 2021 03:44:54 PM

-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 3rd of December 2021 04:31:17 PM

Rob Driver · Guru

Thanks Ian, I will get Angie to have a look for it. At the moment I am unfortunately house bound..

Hi Buzz,

Hardly any troll comment in this topic.

I started the topic and you replied.

I dont agree with your information as posted and you dont agree with mine. That is what happens on a forum.

If you dont like me, that is fine by me.

If you dont agree with my view, that is fine by me.

When I point out anomalies in your information according to you I am trolling, but when it is pointed out by me and others that your quoted theories are only heresay and not based on science or proven fact then as you see it, it becomes a personal attack on you.
I have tried to offer real life examples and tried to add a little lightheartedness in the hope of holding the interest of some others. I guess that didnt work.

Buzz,

What are your thoughts on the video in the topic UNOBTAINIUM.
I am interested in your thoughts on the figures and percentages quoted and if we (as the world, not you personally) do increase the use of renewable energy then, if we may base the result on the figures that exist today, how long will it be before the entire world including industry and domestic use will not be using fossil fuels??

Buzz, this is not a personal attack nor is it trolling, what it is, is a genuine question being asked on a public forum where you decided to comment on an original post by another member (me)

I dont know how to make this any clearer.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

I've already commented on the Mark Mills video. I read the links provided.

@Rob, Do you read the links I provided?

Rob Driver · Guru

Buzz,

Yes, I have read your links and most of them are only quoting opinions, I would like to hear yours and not someone who is not participating in this debate.

If you claim some links provided arent true then quote that anothers opinion is FACT then produce that fact. HERESAY IS NOT FACT.

Earth and its weather patterns and climate has been around for thousands of years, it is you and your followers that are trying to convince me and many others that all the science study is wrong and more to the point we should all throw money at an unproven theory.

Dorian has already debunked the video presenter as apparently being a paid actor, but as yet no one has actually debunked the figures. Maybe give Greta a call, she may be able to help.

My question to you YET AGAIN was this:

Buzz,

What are your thoughts on the video in the topic UNOBTAINIUM.

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

Did you read any of the links that I provided? You don't appear to have commented on any of them. Whereas I have commented on

Let's look at the recently provided Mark Mills video.

Oh yes. Debunked in March 2021:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/03/is-there-a-shift-from-disbelieving-climate-change-to-attacking-renewables/

There is a factory in Victoria that recycles batteries so another video statement debunked. And why would Mills produce such a video? Maybe because according to this URL:

https://leahy.substack.com/p/a-perfect-storm-of-misinformation

Mills is financed by the fossil fuel industries with vast investments in fossil fuels. Conflict of interest? Definitely.

As shown and like most climate deniers, Mills picks and chooses the information to suit his argument. I don't think that he mentions the CO2 that is released into the atmosphere by fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are NOT an endless source of energy and neither are renewables. However, if we run out of energy from sun, which will happen in billions of years, the earth will be unliveable to humans.

Batteries can be recycled. He does not mention: pumped hydro, hydrogen storage, thermal storage or many other technologies that can be used to store renewable energy.

Mills has vested interests in fossil fuels working for a fake university, financed by companies who will benefit from climate deniers and therefore should not be trusted.

As I've said before, and it's getting tedious repeating myself, ask yourself the qualifications of the sources you provide? Are shock jocks, non climate scientists or people with fossil fuel investments or finances really going to give informed, unbiased opinions? No, but deniers keep on clutching at sources that support their beliefs.

Rob,

Will you answer my questions?

You, and some others, are obviously a lost cause. As the links that I've provided show, there is nothing that I, or any other logical argument can provide, will change a climate denier's mind. Why do I waste my time still providing information knowing that it will be rejected?

I only hope that there are some people reading this that are willing to think about what's happening and maybe they are willing to think for themselves and make a difference to this crisis. That is the reason why I persist. Not to change the climate denier's minds but to help those who are 'on the fence' or haven't yet fully grasped the situation, make an informative decision.

I think that you have twice now started another topic for an already debunked climate deniers argument. Starting another topic won't change the debunking. Why do you do that? Do you have vested interests in fossil fuels. I think you mentioned that you are in the trucking industry. Is that your business and you are trying to convince others to deny climate change so that your business won't be affected?

I've worked in the Department of Environment . I've seen much of the science and seen most of the climate deniers arguments. The latter have all been debunked. I've read about the psychological reasons why people are deniers. I know you won't change your mind so I'm not going to find each and every article that shows climate change is real. It's a waste of my time

I've seen it all before. I've quoted the IPCC but you ignore that. I'm not a climate scientist but I know that I should trust climate scientists rather than shock jocks, people with fossil fuel interests and misinformation on social media.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Saturday 4th of December 2021 02:51:00 PM

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

If the Australian Government was a business it would go broke and many of the politicians would be in gaol.

Look at the spending. Yes, there must be spending to help the economy in a crisis but a business that borrows billions of dollars and expects the following business to pay it off would never be able to borrow that money.

Then there's parliamentary privilege. If that didn't exist many politicians would be sued for slander. The only reason that the misogynistic comments are being retracted is because there's an investigation into that behaviour in parliament.

Also, the auditors would have a field day with things like sports and parking rorts. The politicians made the decisions against what was suggested by the relevant authorities.

Look at the unfair dismissal and travel rorts. Some politicians say they'd pay their excess travel remunerationit back and they'd be scot free. Others, like Peter Slipper who didn't tote the party line, get gaol time. Non-politicians would also go to gaol.

The government is NOT a business. It is supposed to implement and finance policies and projects that benefit Australians. Businesses usually only run to make money.

Rob Driver · Guru

Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Did you read any of the links that I provided? You don't appear to have commented on any of them. Whereas I have commented on

Let's look at the recently provided Mark Mills video.

Oh yes. Debunked in March 2021:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/03/is-there-a-shift-from-disbelieving-climate-change-to-attacking-renewables/

There is a factory in Victoria that recycles batteries so another video statement debunked. And why would Mills produce such a video? Maybe because according to this URL:

https://leahy.substack.com/p/a-perfect-storm-of-misinformation

Mills is financed by the fossil fuel industries with vast investments in fossil fuels. Conflict of interest? Definitely.

As shown and like most climate deniers, Mills picks and chooses the information to suit his argument. I don't think that he mentions the CO2 that is released into the atmosphere by fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are NOT an endless source of energy and neither are renewables. However, if we run out of energy from sun, which will happen in billions of years, the earth will be unliveable to humans.

Batteries can be recycled. He does not mention: pumped hydro, hydrogen storage, thermal storage or many other technologies that can be used to store renewable energy.

Mills has vested interests in fossil fuels working for a fake university, financed by companies who will benefit from climate deniers and therefore should not be trusted.

As I've said before, and it's getting tedious repeating myself, ask yourself the qualifications of the sources you provide? Are shock jocks, non climate scientists or people with fossil fuel investments or finances really going to give informed, unbiased opinions? No, but deniers keep on clutching at sources that support their beliefs.
Rob,

Will you answer my questions?

You, and some others, are obviously a lost cause. As the links that I've provided show, there is nothing that I, or any other logical argument can provide, will change a climate denier's mind. Why do I waste my time still providing information knowing that it will be rejected?

I only hope that there are some people reading this that are willing to think about what's happening and maybe they are willing to think for themselves and make a difference to this crisis. That is the reason why I persist. Not to change the climate denier's minds but to help those who are 'on the fence' or haven't yet fully grasped the situation, make an informative decision.

I think that you have twice now started another topic for an already debunked climate deniers argument. Starting another topic won't change the debunking. Why do you do that? Do you have vested interests in fossil fuels. I think you mentioned that you are in the trucking industry. Is that your business and you are trying to convince others to deny climate change so that your business won't be affected?

I've worked in the Department of Environment . I've seen much of the science and seen most of the climate deniers arguments. The latter have all been debunked. I've read about the psychological reasons why people are deniers. I know you won't change your mind so I'm not going to find each and every article that shows climate change is real. It's a waste of my time
I've seen it all before. I've quoted the IPCC but you ignore that. I'm not a climate scientist but I know that I should trust climate scientists rather than shock jocks, people with fossil fuel interests and misinformation on social media.

-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Saturday 4th of December 2021 02:51:00 PM

No Buzz,

I used to run an Eparts supply company It was a great business model and it worked by taking peoples orders and money and then not suppling the said goods. It was a great profit generator but in the end the business was closed down. To be honest I could not handle the complaints.

I now run an on line slot machine gambling business based in Indonesia. Now, this is a real money spinner as I dont have to pay any tax in Australia.

Indonesia is generally not a bad place to live. It has been difficult to travel back and forth with restrictions due to Covid.

Do a search and if you find the gambling company dont hesitate to drop a few bucks into the slots, after all you dont seem to mind parting with your hard earned.

**************************

Working in the Dept of Environment would almost automatically make you a supporter of global warming. Job Security comes to mind.

There would be no job if it was reported that any change to the environment was due to weather and seasons.

What was that? The Fox looking after the Hen House. biggrin

I could have been wrong but I thought you said you worked in the private sector.

Was it you who actually reported the Doom and Gloom to the Dept of Environment with regard to climate?

Buzz,

The key word here is google, anyone can find almost anything on the internet.

It is up to the individual to believe or not what you find.

It supplies so many answers to so many enquiries. I, for one, have learnt a lot.

-- Edited by Rob Driver on Saturday 4th of December 2021 03:58:29 PM

Buzz Lightbulb · Guru

To me, gambling is just a stupid way to throw away one's money. I'd much prefer it to help the world. Not a business that dodges paying tax.

You have no idea what the Department of the Environment does if you think that it only deals with climate change.

I said that I have worked in the private sector.

I've also worked for the Department of Industry, Tourism and something else. Does that make me a climate denier? Your logic just doesn't make sense.

'Was it you who actually reported the Doom and Gloom to the Dept of Environment with regard to climate?'

I have no idea what you mean I couldn't be bothered trying to find out.

'It is up to the individual to believe or not what you find.'

It's up to the individual to decide on what's a reliable source and what information is just fake news promoted via social media.

I really hope that other people can see the difference between the information provided by an international renowned organisation, such as the IPCC or the UN, and self interested sources and unreliable social media

dorian · Guru

Weird.

Earth is getting a black box to record our climate change actions, and it's already started listening:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-12-06/climate-change-earth-black-box-recorder/100621778">https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-12-06/climate-change-earth-black-box-recorder/100621778

"On a granite-strewn plain, surrounded by gnarled mountains, sits a giant steel box.

Incongruous in the landscape, much like Kubrick's black monolith of 2001: A Space Odyssey fame, its alien presence suggests it was put there with intent.

And if those that discover it can decipher the messages it contains, they could get a glimpse of what caused the fall of the civilisation that was there before.

This is Earth's Black Box."